Does it seem like children used to be more formal in their correspondence with adults?

[bluestateguy]

As in, "Yes sir", "No sir", "yes mamn", "no mamn" and calling adults Mr. or Mrs.

It seems to me like this is all from a bygone era, and I'm not that old either.

I guess I was just motivated to write this by a friend of mine who is an 8th grade teacher and was called a "fucking bitch" by some punk kid in her class (she is nothing of the sort, BTW).

[texanwitch]

1. We were raised to say Yes sir and yes mamn, manners in general.

Also please and thank you.

Manners are important, shows respect for others.

[demmiblue]

2. I always preferred demmikid's friends to address me by my informal name...

some did, some didn't. Either way, they always showed me due respect as an adult regardless of how they addressed me.

:shrug:

[Kaleva]

3. I was in a checkout line and I heard a young boy tell his mother to go and fuck herself.

I didn't dare say stuff like "shit", "Goddammit" or even "son of a bitch" in front of my mother.

[petronius]

4. I told my mom to "fuck off" once

It did not end well for me.

[Kaleva]

5. I can imagine the beating you may have got.

My mom would just say "Wait till your father gets home!". I'd act like a perfect angel after she said that and sometimes it saved me. Most of the time it didn't and when my Dad would get home from work, he didn't ask for details. He'd just take off his belt and whip me with it.

[demmiblue]

6. Wow... I am sorry that you had to deal with that abuse.

:hug:

[Kaleva]

9. I never thought of it as abuse. For me and my friends, it was normal behaviour.

Some fathers would use a stick. Others used their fists. Most mothers would use the slap or hair pulling . I had a teacher in school who would lift me out of my seat by pulling on the short hairs by my ears. That hurt like hell but I do recall my main concern was not to cry 'cause there were girls present and I'd be beaten up by the older boys for being a sissy if I did cry.

[demmiblue]

11. I guess that is the difference between teaching fear vs. respect.

I had my share of moments, for sure (non-physical). But the one discipline moment I remember the most was the one in which words were never said; it was the sheer disappointment that got me.

[MiddleFingerMom]

53. I THINK I just told MiddleFingerMomMom (in the heat of anger) something like...

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..."That's fucked UP!!!"
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Other than a symbolic spank on the ass when little, I believe it's the
only time in my life she ever hit me (faceslap -- and at 5'1", she had
to reach WAY up to do that) and I'm not sure which of us was more
shocked by that.
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She turned away and walked off quickly.
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And I never said anything like that to her again.
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[csziggy]

13. I said "Crap" in front of my mother once

And she almost threw me out of the car. "Hell" was only used if we were quoting from the Bible. "Damn", "shit" or "son of a bitch" were not even close to being on the list of acceptable. I never even heard the word "fuck" until I got to college - I learned how to cuss from my first roommate.

When my little sister got the Carlin album with the seven words you can't say on TV, Mom asked me if all kids knew those words. I had to disillusion her by saying yes.

[csziggy]

14. Dupe

[meow2u3]

58. If I used such foul language in front of my mom

I'd have had a bar of soap in my mouth faster than it would take for me to apologize--and that's exactly what I would have done to that kid if he were mine! :grr:

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Kids these days do seem to tend to see themselves on the same social level as adults.

[meow2u3]

59. Some kids even think they're socially superior to adults

[Mopar151]

8. When I'm addresses as "Sir" or "Mr._____"

It's usually because somebody wants something (generally money) from me. If they use the formal term more than twice, I start smelling con or ripoff.

If you really like being called "Sir", talk to a Gypsy or a Traveller.

[seabeyond]

10. i have never liked the sir and mamn and do not teach children to use it. mr., mrs.... yes

children who are parented are still respectful to adults. children who are not parented call teachers fucking bitch.

[Dappleganger]

12. In our area...

younger children tend to be better with the "Yes sir" and "No ma'am's" while the older ones drop the formality at some point. We did require them to be polite with their tone of voice and to use ma'am and sir when they were younger, but now it's fine if they don't as long as it's not snarky. They are definitely more formal with teachers and other adults, and I noticed the other day when at the grocery store that our son (17) spoke very politely with his older co-worker. Much of this is regional, the south tends to be more formal with certain kinds of manners.

When someone calls me ma'am I ask them to please stop because it makes me feel old, lol. :)

Edited to add: When I was growing up my mother used to say that the best present a parent could give their child was to teach her good manners. To an extent, I think that's probably true as long as we remember that it's not always about what you say but how you say it.

[MiddleFingerMom]

15. My boss told me recently that I was the most courteous, respectful employee she had ever known...

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...and I told her, "I blame my Mom."
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Funny line, but very true.
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And I'm glad she did so.
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[xchrom]

16. i'm all about the yes, sir or no mamn, please, thank you, mr, ms, or mrs.

i know few people well enough to do away with that kind of formality.

and i prefer to be addressed the same way by children or adults.

[BlueJazz]

17. I agree. Ah..Sir.

[xchrom]

19. i'm not picky -- you can mamn me too. nt

[juajen]

18. What correspondence?

[Arugula Latte]

20. My kids' friends call me by my first name, and that is the way I like it.

"Mrs. X" sounds really, really strange and much too formal to me.

[Arkansas Granny]

66. My kids friends never called me Mrs. A few of them used my first name, but

many of them just called me Mom and still do to this day when we run into each other.

[Arugula Latte]

68. That's sweet. They must have felt very comfortable with/close to you.

[Maine-ah]

21. too true...

that's how it was for me, and I'm not that old either :) I love it though when other people tell me how polite and thoughtful my daughter is, I've been trying to pass it along to her. Proud Mama...she's only four.

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. My kids are raised the exact same way I was. They use those terms

My son has to call his teachers "sir" or Ma'am" and we make him call our friends by Mr. or Mrs/Ms/Miss. Close friends are typically given Uncle/Aunt as a title.

Of course, that didn't keep him from muttering "This is BS" (the initials, not the words) under his breath, in class this week. Detention is being served.

[Taitertots]

23. Being "Formal" is just training them for submission to authority

The only people I've ever met that cared were egomaniacs who were obsessed with having their hierarchical positions glorified.

[Odin2005]

30. I agree.

[Joe Fields]

42. So, you have a decided lack of respect for people, in general?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with growing up respectful of your elders and other people. This "submission to authority" garbage you seem to cling to is what tugs at the fabric of a civilized society.

[Taitertots]

47. Respect isn't calling people sir or ma'am

Civilization isn't held together by egomaniacs demanding special recognition.

[Nikia]

48. As someone trying to psychologically break free of childhood abuse

I don't think that it is good for children to be overly respectful of adults. By that I mean children thinking that adults are more important than them regardless of what the adult does. This doesn't just go away when the child becomes an adult either.
I know that there must be a right balance. I hope that I can teach my toddler son to be respectful of all people, but also know that he has as much right to anything as anyone else. I don't want him to be a Victim like me.

[Forkboy]

55. I do. I think many humans flat out suck.

Respect is earned from others, just as I would have to earn it from them. In the case of people who are my elders, the simple fact that were born before me is insufficient reason for respect. I don't expect anyone aged 43 and under to automatically respect me because of my age.

Having said that, there's a difference between not respecting someone and going out of your way to be disrespectful to someone.

[Joe Fields]

77. good for you. I was taught to have manners and show respect.

A word of advice. You usually get back what you give.

Oh, and I haven't suffered one ounce of harm from being nice and showing some common decency and respect.

But I guess it's all how you were brought up.

[Orrex]

24. In nearly 40 decades I think I've heard a child address a man as "sir" only once

And that was about 25 years ago. Outside of interactions at the cash register ("Here's your change, sir") or that sort of thing, that mode of discourse has not been a part of society's conversation.

I'm frankly amazed to hear that others have had different experiences in this regard.

[Kaleva]

28. 40 decades?

[Orrex]

35. Why, yes.

I have a very long memory.

[Kaleva]

38. I'm surprised to learn that the children of the Pilgrims didn't have proper manners.

[Orrex]

39. Foul-mouthed little brutes, every last one of them

[Kaleva]

41. LOL!!

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. I think the excessive "sir/maam" stuff is creepy

You can be polite without being cloyingly deferential. Mr. or Mrs. (or Ms. or Miss, depending) is appropriate for children addressing a non-family member by name, but why on earth should they have to answer every question posed to them with an added "sir" or "maam"? I only use "sir" or "maam" if I address someone whose name I don't know - "Sir, you forgot your wallet," for example.

[frogmarch]

57. Same here. I agree completely. nt

[InvisibleTouch]

26. We didn't do the "sir" and "ma'am" stuff in our house...

...so I remember being surprised the first time I heard a friend of mine address her father as "sir." I thought it was really weird and off-putting.

On the other hand, there's a mother of another grade-school friend whom I still address as "Mrs.____" after several decades, and to do otherwise would just seem inappropriate.

For my part, I prefer that kids just call me by my name, regardless of their age. It just seems friendlier.

I think whatever mode of address is comfortable to all parties, is perfectly fine.

[lukasahero]

27. My nephews still say no sir and yes ma'am

They also say please and thank you.

2 are in the neighborhood of 20 and the 3rd is 14.

It's how they were raised. And no, raising them never involved raising a hand.

[Odin2005]

29. I find it creepy and authoritarian.

Real life isn't the fucking army.

And comparing it to teaching kids to say "please" and "thank you" is complete bullshit.

[datasuspect]

32. real life isn't the fucking army

but the Marine Corps will prepare you for real life.

stiffen that backbone son.

it isn't authoritarian. children aren't little adults.

they need to be taught how to be respectful.

[Odin2005]

33. "Please" and "Thank you" is respectful. calling people you know "sir" or "ma'am" is creepy.

[datasuspect]

37. why do you hate common courtesy?

[Kaleva]

40. I'm 52 and I call people older then I that.

It's habit and I think nothing of it. God willing, in a few decades I'll be the oldest around and I won't do that anymore.

[snagglepuss]

43. I am very polite and respectful but dislike hearing kids say yes sir/no sir.

Too militaristic and too rote.

[Taitertots]

36. The other 99% of us prepare ourselves just fine

Treating people with respect isn't sucking up to them and stroking their egos because they have a hierarchical position. That is spineless capitulation to false authority.

Treating people with respect, like not invading their country and murdering them for no reason. Something they fail to teach people in the Marines. But at least they called the civilians "sir" before murdering them.

[Orrex]

52. I don't think I've ever seen you address anyone on DU as "sir" or "ma'am"

How's the ol' backbone, son?

[Pithlet]

49. Yep, I find it creepy, too.

I tell my kids they don't have to do it outside of school. I don't think it's a requirement for being respectful either.

[Pithlet]

50. dupe

[Pithlet]

51. .

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[bigwillq]

31. I've never used those phrases.

And I think I grew up to be a respectful adult. My parents raised me well, even if they didn't teach me or demand that I use those phrases.

[last_texas_dem]

34. I'm not the biggest fan of "sir" & "ma'am," but

there's a pretty big divide between those and calling a teacher a "fucking bitch." However, I'm pretty sure there were jackass kids that would've said something like that to a teacher even during the era when "sir" & "ma'am" were more common.

My parents pretty much taught me to know situations where someone was likely to expect to be called "sir" or "ma'am," and adapt accordingly. (It's a little more common of an expectation where I live, anyway.) However, it was never the expectation at my own house, and I'm honestly kind of glad about that. I feel like I've always had a much better relationship with my parents than the kids I knew who had parents that expected to be sirred & ma'amed- though I know that's just one aspect of a larger set of things.

I do know that I was taught at a young age that "bitch" was not a word to use unless you were describing a female dog, and I've kept true to that lesson to this day- although I can't quite say the same for some of the other "dirty" words. haha

[Joe Fields]

44. I am 54, and I still call strangers, no matter what their age, sir or maam.

I was raised to show respect and common courtesy to people, and I raised my son in the same manner. He gets praised from strangers in regard to his polite nature. It makes me very proud. Sadly, he stands out among his generation for doing so.

[Odin2005]

45. I do it with strangers too, simply because I don't know their name, but it's creepy when used...

...with people you know.

[Kat45]

46. When I was growing up, we kids called adults by Mr. or Mrs., not by first names

Even though I'm in my fifties now, I still feel weird about calling friends' parents my their first names. Yet I'm not sure whether to use the formal address either, so I often don't address them by name. :shrug:

I've heard little kids address their friends' parents by their first name and it doesn't quite feel right to me (but it's probably considered ok by the parents).

I grew up in the Boston area, and we never used sir or ma'am around here. When I was in junior high, a girl from Texas moved here and she always addressed teachers as sir or ma'am. It was weird to us so everyone laughed at her a bit.

[meow2u3]

61. Same here

When I was a kid growing up, I was taught to call adults by Mr., Mrs., or Miss, except when the adults (my friend's parents or my mom's friends) wanted to go by their first names--then only Uncle X or Aunt X (X standing for the adult's first name). This was in New York City, mind you.

The only time we used Sir or Ma'am was when the adults were strangers, such as "Sir, you dropped some money" or "Excuse me, ma'am." We said "yes, please" and "no, thank you."

You wouldn't catch us dead saying "Yo"! or "Hey, you"! to an adult. My mom would either lock me in my room all day, belt me, or both.

Kids are not only not taught, but encouraged, to exercise bad manners and disrespect to adults in the name of self-expression. They either never learn manners at home or they unlearn them on the streets, in their video games, watching too much TV, or surfing too long on the Internet. Divorce also has an influence on how kids are growing up these days. They don't live with both parents at home anymore.

[raccoon]

62. When I was a kid, we called our friends' parents "Miss Jane" and "Mr. John."

A Southern thing, I think.

[Arugula Latte]

70. I always called my friends' parents Mr. or Mrs., but I am not keeping that going for myself.

Creeps me out when a kid calls me that.

[MiddleFingerMom]

54. It took me FOREVER to remember who said this and, as fucked up as he was about a LOT...

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...I think he was right on the money about this.
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Robert Heinlein:
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Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive
wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people
rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the
unsophisticated, deplore these formalities as 'empty,' 'meaningless,' or
'dishonest,' and scorn to use them. No matter how pure their motives,
they thereby throw sand into the machinery that does not work too well
at best.
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[blueamy66]

56. Without reading any answers...

good friends of my parents were Aunts and Uncles....otherwise there were Mr. and Mra.

Kiss these days.....

[Heidi]

60. Yes.

I'm 47, and the rule in our household was: never call an adult by his or her first name unless s/he has asked you to do so. All adults outside the family were "Mr.," "Mrs.," or "Miss." We didn't even call our aunts and uncles by their first names alone. It was always "Aunt Opal," for example.

[RadiationTherapy]

63. I avoid titles as much as possible and only use names.

Friends, strangers, aunts, uncles, professors, students. I dislike all hierarchies and do not like the aristocratic notions some have of age. If someone is in a power position over me and asks me, I will submit to their authority and use their titles.

[MiddleFingerMom]

64. Some of the kindest, gentlest , most soft-spoken and courteous men I have known...

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...have been physically (and sometimes socially) POWERFUL enough not to
ever have to worry about feeling as though they were "submitting" to others'
authority by simply being courteous and respectful.
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I always think of Bear, a motorcycle club enforcer I knew. A HUGE, physically
impressive and intelligent man. Scared my GF of the time to pieces. If he had
thought you were a real danger to himself or to those he had sworn to protect...
serious woe be unto you. But he was one of the CLASSIC gentle giants -- could
cry over a lost kitty -- and treated EVERYONE with respect and courtesy -- up
to and including using honorifics like sir or Ms. and the like. He believed (like the
"innocent until proven guilty" status) that everyone had the right to be treated
respectfully until proven otherwise.
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He met an equally sweet schoolteacher, left the lifestyle he had been in, and
got a straight job.
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I THINK in the banking industry. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
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I have known people of ALL sizes and physical "prowess" who have been confident
enough, even self-actualized enough to have felt and behaved in the same manner.
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[RadiationTherapy]

71. I don't feel threatened or a need to project when it comes to submitting.

The difference between my point and yours is that I only use titles and honorifics when being submissive and there is no respect tied into the words for me. For your friend, he saw titles and honorifics as respect and not submitting.

I propose that the very existence of titles and honorifics creates, maintains, and reinforces notions of hierarchy.

[MiddleFingerMom]

72. See Post #54. n/t

[RadiationTherapy]

74. Meh. Ego lubricants for the ageists.

Yeah yeah...young and naive. yawn.

[MiddleFingerMom]

75. !!!!

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:rofl::rofl::rofl:
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[RadiationTherapy]

76. That's right, sucka!

[Joe Fields]

78. Thank you for that. I have witnessed the same in my life, and practice it.

[Arkansas Granny]

65. My parents didn't insist on us kids using "sir" and "ma'm", but they did insist

that we remember our manners and use them all the time, everytime, with anyone we had any dealings with regardless of age, sex, race, etc. When taught like that, the use of manners becomes so automatic that you don't even have to think about it and kids and grandkids just seem to pick up the habit quite naturally.

As far as name calling, that would have gotten any of us kids, in any generation, into some serious trouble. When I was in 8th grade, calling a teacher a "fucking bitch" probably would have gotten us expelled for the school year. It was just not heard of.

[raccoon]

67. What do you call a country where children respect their elders?

Answer: an undeveloped country.

(I hear that somewhere.)

[Arugula Latte]

69. I agree with the posters who say the "Yes, Sir / Yes, Ma'am" stuff is creepy.

Reminds me of those psychochristian families with fifteen kids where the girls all wear long denim skirts.

[Bucky]

73. "maam" or "ma'am" but I never give a "mamn" to a lady.

Our whole society is coarser than it was a generation ago. That's pure capitalism at work.