Regarding the Nietzsche quote. I get the monsters part, but the abyss? Explain?

[Duer 157099]

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

I don't think I've ever understood this quote. An abyss cannot gaze at anything, can it?

What did he mean?

[MiddleFingerMom]

1. Exactly THIS:

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[Duer 157099]

2. Damn you

for making me laugh that hard.

[wysimdnwyg]

3. Nominated for a DUzy

Bring back the DUzys!

[WinkyDink]

4. Awesome!

[progressoid]

9. That's a keeper!

[Taverner]

5. The abyss is within you

Basically all "evils" you are up against are inside you

[Duer 157099]

6. But how did you get there from here?

How does that quote say what you are saying?

[Taverner]

7. You look into the abyss, it looks into you

You and the abyss are one and the same

Kind of works off of the monsters part - using the same logic

[Duer 157099]

8. But the monsters part is qualified

only those who fight with monsters are at danger of becoming same.

Keep trying. I really want to appreciate this quote, but I'm not there yet.

[tigereye]

10. that would be a metaphor

the more that you wrestle with and despise a concept, the more it can affect you in a similar way, without any intent on your part.

Monsters tend to inhabit the abyss, no? Have you ever taken a course in existentialism, or poetry? :D Apologies if this is a joke post.

[Duer 157099]

11. I thought that was covered by the monster part

I'm coming to think that the abyss part means that if one spends their time staring blankly into space, soon they become a vacant person? Like, nothing in, nothing out?

Like, if you stare at a blank wall long enough, soon you become a blank wall yourself?

I dunno, I'm still working on it.

[tigereye]

12. it's extending the metaphor for emphasis

Think of it as a story- you could argue that the abyss part is embellishment or an extension of his argument. Actually I think the abyss part is more often quoted than the monster part! :D It's a wonderfully elegant line.


I would say that he means that the abyss is scary and if you spend too long looking into it, it can take over. Have you ever heard the quote "you become what you hate?"



(waits for any philosophy or lit profs who lurk here to chime in with a more trenchant analysis. I only have a Lit BA and a minor in philosophy.)

[Duer 157099]

14. I know that what you describe is the generally accepted interpretation

But I'm not yet willing to buy it.

Perhaps I need to spend more time looking into the abyss? Is that what I'm doing here?

[tigereye]

15. I'm not sure what you are doing, or if you are just having

a good laugh. In any case... Maybe you need to spend more time reading his other writings. Enjoy your day.

[Duer 157099]

17. I'm not having a laugh, I'm just discussing this quote

And if I were having a laugh, isn't the Lounge the place for it anyway?

But that's not what I'm doing. FWIW.

[MilesColtrane]

13. "the abyss" was a biblical term for Hell.

I think it appears in Revelations, maybe in more places.

Nietsche was raised with a Christian background, so it makes sense that he would use "the abyss" as a symbol of the dwelling place of Evil.

You gaze into the abyss (where you believe Evil resides) and it gazes back at you, just as one looking in a mirror gazes back at himself.

[Duer 157099]

16. OK, so assuming he's using it in that sense

then how does this reference differ from the one about monsters? Is it that he's saying that one need not be actively involved in fighting evil in order to be influenced by it, but that just observing it is enough? Like the scriptural reference to "whatever is pure...(etc), think on these things" ?

But then why not just say that, rather than anthropomorphising the abyss? Why not say that if you gaze long into the abyss, you become the abyss? But no, he says the abyss gazes back. Why?

[MilesColtrane]

19. .

OK, so assuming he's using it in that sense then how does this reference differ from the one about monsters?

The abyss reference is a corollary of the first part of the quote.

In fighting a monster, that abyss you see when you look at him is an aspect of yourself, one that is normally sublimated to the subconscious mind.

The entire quote is a warning that the evil we see in others is in ourselves as well, and that it is easy to justify any evil thing that you do if you believe you are doing it in the name of good.

Is it that he's saying that one need not be actively involved in fighting evil in order to be influenced by it, but that just observing it is enough? Like the scriptural reference to "whatever is pure...(etc), think on these things" ?

I don't believe that is his intent, but I don't know. This is simply my interpretation.

[tigereye]

21. why does any poet or writer use repetition and extension

to extend the metaphor and make it more powerful, effective, or simply beautiful? It's very elegant and effective imagery. :shrug:

Here's another quote of his, related to the question, "The drive toward the formation of metaphors is the fundamental human drive, which one cannot for a single instant dispense with in thought, for one would thereby dispense with man himself." :D

Maybe you should check out the Wiki page- there seems to be a lot of info there- and also read some academic critiques of his work.

[existentialist]

18. I have always found a parallel between that Nietzsche quote and

Tolkien powers of the ring.

If one looks into the imponderable aspects of questions of morality one cannot but call into question one's own basis for what one considers to be moral actions. If you look into these riddles you risk corrupting yourself.

But these riddles are there, and those attempting to supplant dysfunctional aspects of a culture must look into them if they are to be honest and informed about what they are trying to do.

[Biker13]

20. I Ran This One By Biker13...

who has studied Nietzsche for about 4 decades. He's not posting right now, going through an internet dry spell. His response was, (short-hand), "If you lie down with pigs..."

Meaning you become the abyss.

Biker's Old Lady