Would like opinions on this - personal family stuff

[kimi]

Okay - background first. My father was abusive - to my mom, brother and myself. He's an alcoholic, worked for the State Dept, so we went all over the world and lots of people witnessed his abuse - no one made any effort to help, of course. My mom eventually had enough and took my brother and I back to the States and got a divorce. Things went along alright after that, but my father had issues, especially when I started having kids, he objected to that - I was never sure why, but suspected - well, stuff. Anyway, I cut ties with him about 25 years ago. Through the years, I'd heard that he'd been verbally abusive to my niece and nephew, but my brother had some kind of weird loyalty to him - so they stayed in touch.

Okay, up to the present day. My father is now in ICU in San Antonio TX, he's had a heart attack and is in serious but stable condition. My SIL has given me the phone number to his hospital room. I really really do not want to talk to this man, but most of my family is telling me to the "noble" thing and do this, or I will regret it later.

Honestly, I don't think I will regret it, if he doesn't pull through and I don't speak to him again. I know, that sounds awful, I KNOW. But this man beat me, my mom and my brother so many times earlier in my life - it's scarred how I look at things now. I'm not so much bitter as indifferent, I'd like to think. I don't know what we'd talk about, anyway, he never expressed interest in my life as it was. In addition, there was a period in my life about ten years ago when I was seriously ill, on life-support, and he never contacted my family or expressed concern about whether I would survive.

All of this sounds so selfish, I think. Maybe I'm just looking for justification for not calling him. He's frightened me for most of my life, for so many reasons. Eh, I'm just starting to ramble here, now.

Any thoughts are welcome. I'm kinda wondering what to do, and don't quite trust my own judgment.

[blueamy66]

1. Wow

Wish I had a good answer for you...but I don't.

Go with your heart.

The whole situation is terrible. :-(

[ChoralScholar]

2. There's no way to know

how you'll feel about it after the passage of time. Also, if he passes, the reality of his death may also change the way you look at it.

However, it sounds like to me, you've already emotionally divested yourself of him. It's possible you may never look back if you choose not to re-connect. But you must remember there is a ripple effect, and it may cause other family members to change their behavior toward you, once they realize your father has passed, and you never called.

But, if there's nothing there, then there's nothing there.

[struggle4progress]

3. As a purely abstract matter, I think I'd try to make the call: I'd figure

that the past had torn a chunk out of me and that today I was the only one who could do anything about it. I'd dig deep for a pleasant memory or two to remind him of other times and see if he made any move towards repair. Then I'd know I'd tried. But of course I don't know your situation in detail.

[kimi]

7. I'm really trying to find a reason to make the call

There weren't a lot of pleasant memories. I'm trying hard to - eh, find a way to pull it together to do this. In such a dysfunctional family, it takes an effort.

I appreciate your words. Really, I know I have few chances left and want to do what's right.

[RT Atlanta]

49. I agree with this reasoning too

you doing this more selfishly than anything else - that way, you wont ever have to say "I wish I woulda..." when thinking about whether you should have called your biological father.

As far as an opening, well, you did get to live in other parts of the globe and hopefully the painful abuse didnt sour your views on the cities/countries where the abuse happened - perhaps you could use that (living across the globe) as the opening (maybe not a thank you, but, you know that helped me see how people in other parts of the world live and appreciate other customs, etc.)

Good luck to you with this challenge!

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kimi]

5. "vengeful twit"?

Thanks.

I already felt shitty enough.

[Riftaxe]

6. It's not an arguement about your humanity

by posting you have just left us to judge what increment of it you have left.

[kimi]

8. "Increment of humanity"

Nice.

I never asked you to judge, I asked for opinions. You decided to judge.

Shit. Thanks a lot. In a time of family pain, you've added to it.

I'd better get used to the "Ignore" mode.

[snagglepuss]

10. What a vile thing to say to you. (DUs ignore function is a godsend.)

I have been in the exact same situation. Given a violent and abusive father I was estranged from my entire family for many years and did not know he passed. I know that relatives who never knew what went on behind closed doors hold me in contempt. As I was never close to any I don't really care though I would feel very uncomfortable if a need arises where I must have to see them as I expect no understanding whatsoever and I don't relish having their contempt in my face. However I do not feel regret. The situation was not something most people can understand. I can't say what is best for you but I deeply understand and wish you peace, comfort and strength. :hug:

[snagglepuss]

11. What insufferable insensitivity. Welcome to ignore.

[seabeyond]

14. ya. people do have choices. ugly, or not. nt

[Brickbat]

17. Actually, in an abusive family, "acknowledging existence" can cost a person quite a bit. Hearing a

voice that has brought so much pain can trigger mental trauma that takes weeks to get over.

Read the last sentence of your post and apply it to yourself. For fuck's sake.

[AngryOldDem]

21. +1.

[Skittles]

9. I'm curious

does he want you to call? regardless, I would call....if you don't it will always stay on your mind - it will - you know it will; that's the inner voice telling to you ask for advice. Call.

[Ineeda]

12. Hope this helps you...

I can relate. My mom was (mostly) emotionally abusive. She lived and breathed only for my dad and had no real interest in her children. As a child and young adult I needed a mom and she was, at best, emotionally absent. When my dad died, all of a sudden she wanted to connect. I gave her superficial attention, treating her only as considerately as I would a casual acquaintance. It helped that I lived a couple thousand miles away, but I heard from my geographically closer and more masochistically dutiful siblings that she did not change as she grew older and sicker. So here's my two cents: Be kind and make the call but keep your emotional distance, as if he were just an old neighbor or school friend, not your father. Those pressuring you won't have anything to criticize, but you won't feel like a hypocrite or have regrets that you didn't call.
:hug:

[Brickbat]

18. I think this is good advice.

"Call as if he were just an old neighbor or school friend." You could even just consider him a long-ago friend of your mom's, if you feel like you want to call.

On the other hand, you know how much you can take. If you can't take it, you have to protect yourself first. Good luck.

[gimama]

68. excellent advice here..

I'd only add:
1)trust YourSELF
2)whatever YOU decide, do it FOR YOURSELF, & Your OWN Healing
3)know that YOU are not alone in this,evidenced by some DU Love right here..
4)& YOU HAVE A RIGHT to Your FEELINGS & CHOICES,
no matter how other family members choose to react.

Bless YOU, Kimi, I know PEACE & Healing are already coming to YOU~===]

been thru similar m'Self.:grouphug:

[blogslut]

13. I think you already know what you're going to do

Some will support you. Others won't.

I've got a brother that I have not spoken to in 16 years and I have no intention of ever speaking to him or seeing him again. Whatever fondness or good memories I had for/of him have long been squandered. My other siblings know this. His children know this. I don't hate him. I just don't care. If he passes I won't dance on his grave because I'll never see it. If members of my family have a problem with that then they have a problem with that.

[seabeyond]

15. i don't know kimi.

i don't know how you have a heartfelt moment with a person, you do not feel anything for in the heart.

i think you have to identify what is best for you. he really lost any privilege of expectation in choices he made all his life. it is not on your shoulders the choices he made. that is all on him. he lived his life how he wanted, and these are the consequences.

what do you do... when seeing a dying man that you feel nothing but anger or indifference for?

i think if you need to see him a last time, to forgive him (which is a purely selfish act on your part because it is an act of freeing yourself) then you could do it. but if you feel nothing for the man....

i don't know. this one is only for you, BUT i am sorry you lived what you did so many years ago. it was so wrong.

[MrsBrady]

16. my life circumstances are different than yours

but family alcoholism and dysfunction run rampant in my family as well.


Here is what helps me make a decision when something is important.
1) Sleep on it (when there is time)
2) Talk to someone who I already know has my best interest at heart, usually not a family member, in my case (a good friend or minister, etc....

and this one has helped me when one and two are not enough
3) What would I want for a good girl friend/sister/daughter if was happening to them?
Taking myself out of the situation and putting another person in my shoes has seemed to help me look at things from a distance.

Also, I will say this. Do what YOU think is best for YOU. Do not be pressured either way to do one thing or the other.
People can give you all kinds of advice all day long. But they won't have to live with the outcomes/consequences.

Just be mindful of how YOU feel.
So often in dysfunctional families, we do what others want us to do weather it's good for us or not.
And often family just doesn't want to see or remember the abuse because then they'd have to deal with their own issues.
It might make your family "feel" better if you call them, but would it be good for you? He was abusive to you and you owe him nothing. He did nothing to show that he cared for you. If you don't call him, I don't see it as being a bad person or revengeful...it's simply continuing on the the relationship the way it is...non existent. Personally, I would understand if you didn't call him. Either way, if you call him or don't....just make sure it's on your terms and something that you want to do. Not something others think you should do.

[Grey]

27. I totally agree with MrsBrady,

There is nothing you can do or say that will make any difference, His life is at an end. You must now care for yourself in the best way possible. You need do only what you feel is right. Don't let them pressure you into doing anything you may later regret.

[gimama]

69. YOUR #3 strategy saved my Life

..I became my own loving, nurturing mother,
& saw mySelf with COMPASSION.

Sometimes it's easier to advocate for others, than for YourSELF.

I'd forgotten this
'tool', thank YOU for reMinding us!

[Phentex]

19. I would not go nor would I call...

it is not selfish. It is realistic. Be authentic. You owe NO ONE an explanation.

If anybody says anything, you simply say "I wish him no harm, but I am not going to contact him."

It's not the reality you may have wanted for your life but it IS your life. Do not feel guilty.

Hugs!

[AngryOldDem]

20. I empathize completely.

You are torn between how you feel and what you think you are expected to be/do as that man's child.

You are not being selfish by being ambivalent toward this man's current situation. All I can say is, do what is in your heart -- do what you feel is best and most appropriate, and then answer to no one but yourself. Parentage aside, I think you truly have no deep obligation toward someone who was so abusive to you for a good portion of your life.

[Bunny]

22. If there is to be any attempt at reconciliation, or even acknowledgement, it has to come from your

father. The burden to atone and repair the relationship falls squarely on him, and perhaps if he's on his deathbed he may have a revelation and try to make amends. Respect has to be earned, even from one's children. So, don't feel obligated to reach out to him in any way, if you are not comfortable doing so. It's okay to not regret it, too. You are not selfish and there's nothing wrong with preserving your peace of mind and emotional safety by continuing to ignore him. :hug:

[NV Whino]

23. My 2 pennies

Personally, I wouldn't call. Reasons: the abusive relationship; no attempt on his part to contact you prior to this; it seems this is not presently his request, but rather your SIL's; and all of the (negative) emotions and memories it will bring up in you. The people who are requesting this of you truly don't know what you have gone through.

[Kali]

24. didn't read replies yet but my gut

says don't call, WRITE - write it all, wait a bit THEN DECIDE whether to send it. Good luck and do not feel guilty, he hasn't felt it (yet).

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

25. You may not agree

but no matter how much pain and heartbreak he's caused you, try to be the one who is the bigger person. Even if it's a call that says only, 'I hope you get out of the hospital soon'.

[kwassa]

28. I disagree.

Being the bigger person is what perpetuates dysfunctional family relationships. The only way to be out of that relationship is not to play the game in the first place.

I wouldn't contact or call, to put myself in the OP's shoes for a minute. If the father called me, I might speak to him briefly, but in the most detached way possible. If I couldn't manage that detachment, I would hang up the phone.

What is the purpose of this call? To say you care when you don't? To hope for an apology for the years of abuse, when it is unlikely to come? To step back into the pain?

[seabeyond]

36. that is what would be hard, and fake, which i dont do. say you care, and you dont

how do you do that????

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

39. There is a spiritual principle

involved here. If it doesn't make itself clear to you then I can't explain it.........

[kwassa]

50. No, there isn't , particularly if you can't explain it.

Spiritual, my ass.

There is no spiritual principle in this universe that requires one to step back into abuse.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

60. I didn't say that.

I said only suggested calling and wishing the person well. :)

[Bunny]

61. That *is* stepping back into abuse.

Any contact at all can be stepping back in. I agree with kwassa - I don't think there's any higher spiritual power involved here.
Destructive, toxic people do not need to be tolerated or even interacted with. Period.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

62. Judge not

lest ye be judged. The man is sick, maybe he's dying. The OP is in a quandry. If she knew what to do she wouldn't have asked us for opinions. No mateer what the SOB did, his blood runs in her veins. I'm only suggesting she show kindness in the face of fear.......... :)

[Bunny]

63. Well, thanks for the lecture on judging, but honestly, it's pretty condescending.

Blood isn't as relevant as past behavior in this case, and unless he repents and asks for contact, the OP is under absolutely no obligation to somehow prove to him that she's the bigger person, or whatever. If she wants to do that, fine. But it's a pretty low blow to try to guilt trip her into it by telling her that it's spirtual and if she can't figure that out, you can't explain it to her. That was really very patronizing.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

64. How is what I said a lecture?

Some of you here seem focused on my not wanting the OP to punish her father or extract vengence because of what he did.
It also seems people aren't following the thread.
I didn't tell the OP to figure out the spiritual angle it was whomever replied to my statement.
I didn't tell the OP to prove she was the bigger the person. I said doing what I suggested shows she is the bigger person, bigger than him.

I'm not here to fight or argue about this. The OP has been silent on my posting as is her right.

I'd like to remind you all that communicating strictly through these postings can lead to all sorts of mis-understandings. As we appear to have one now.

:)

[kwassa]

74. Not contacting her father is not punishment or vengence.

It is simply not contacting her father. He has no expectation, nor has he made any request to see her.

Contacting him would not make her a bigger person; it might in fact make her a smaller person, diminished by new abuse from her abuser.

There is no spiritual principle involved. She is not supposed to judge someone who abused her for her entire life? That is just stupid, not spiritual.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

75. Thank you for judging me

:)

[kwassa]

76. you miss the point.

clearly.

[distantearlywarning]

66. +1

In my experience, the words "bigger person" usually translate to "doormat" somewhere down the line.

I am always personally looking for the greater good in any situation, and sometimes that greater good is NOT putting myself in a situation where my presence would tempt another person to behave badly (e.g., allowing someone else to victimize me or others).

[AngryOldDem]

35. I disagree also.

I'll be blunt. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and get out -- even with family. Just because they are related to you does not necessarily mean that you owe them any kind of consideration after years of taking their abuse, especially when you are working (or have worked) hard to get away from the psychological effects of that abuse. To step back into that toxicity is only opening up oneself to more problems.

I'm speaking from experience -- I have disowned all of my family because of the crap I endured and am still to some degree suffering from. If I heard one was ill, yes, I'd feel sorry about that, I wouldn't gloat about karma and whatnot. But I wouldn't rush to their bedside offering condolences that I didn't sincerely intend or feel, either. I could say more, but this is not my thread.

Being the "bigger person" does not mean having to expose yourself to more belittling, indifference, abuse, or whatever the dynamic is that caused you to be estranged from that person in the first place. But it ultimately becomes a question that the OP has to decide for herself, and find an answer that **she** can be at peace with -- no matter what anybody else says or thinks she ought to do.

[Dappleganger]

73. Since he just had a heart attack...

it may stress him too much. She could call a family member and send her regards, then follow up with a card or flowers.

[Dogtown]

26. Walk away.

You owe him nothing, but you do owe it to yourself not to relive the nightmare.

[madmom]

29. I have to say I agree with Mrs Brady. He was NOT your father in the real sense of the meaning, so

why should you pretend just to make other family members happy? Think of yourself, do what will make you happy.:hug: I think you need these right about now.

[grasswire]

30. he objected to you having children?

Why?

[rug]

31. What's the worst that will happen if you do call?

[PassingFair]

32. You don't owe him BUPKUS. But think about this...

if you've always been afraid of him (and who wouldn't be)
you have nothing more to fear from him.

I'd only call him if there was a good chance of him dying.

If they downgrade his condition,
I'd call or visit and if he didn't start apologizing
immediately, I'd leave or hang up.

If starts ranting AT you, you can tell him to
go to hell and MEAN it!

Either way, your courage will have paid off.

[Arugula Latte]

33. It sounds like you don't want to call him. I would go with your gut.

You have no reason to feel guilty about not calling him.

Good luck -- what a horrible mess that man made of his life.

[hedgehog]

34. I'm so sweet I give people diabetes if they're in the same room with me,

and I say don't call if the experience will cause you further harm. If there is a chance of reconciliation or a need to resolve things on your part, then call. But you've had 25 years to think things over, and it doesn't sound like he's changed in that time.

[ismnotwasm]

37. That's very personal and individual

Since you'll get advice opposite of mine, along the lines of 'mending bridges or you'lll regret it forever', I'll say this. The only way I'll visit my father in any capacity is if his power of speech and cognitive ability is gone. Period. And perhaps not even then.

I won't regret it. I'm not angry at him. I've thought this over carefully and discussed it with people I trust.

I do not put myself in situations where I can be abused or harmed. Simple as that. My father and I have made our individual choices over behavior. I'm comfortable with mine.

[rurallib]

38. I would not contact him.

I have had people in my life who have left some pretty deep cuts. When we have had contact again, I usually end up spending some time rehashing the hurts.
Never has it been a good experience.
He has been out of your life forever. No sense re-opening old wounds.
Tell your brother and SIL that it is your decision and you will be the one who must live with it.

Out of curiousity - what about your children, his grandchildren? Do they know him at all? Has there been any effort to guilt them into contacting him?

As for me, I get but one life. i am trying to keep it fairly simple. If someone treats me badly, I am done with them.

[Lars39]

40. Your well meaning SIL doesn't know the depth of your feelings.

Don't let her guilt you into something that is not in your best interests. She may just want to shine as the peacemaker, regardless of who is hurt.
Also, what happens if he fully recovers and wants to open that door that you grudgingly cracked open under duress?

[Arkansas Granny]

41. If you haven't spoken to him in 25 years, I don't think you will regret it

if you don't speak to him again before he dies, whenever that may be. Don't let family members goad you into doing something that you don't feel comfortable doing. I don't think you are being selfish.

[RedCloud]

42. I would go. Just show him you are the better and now stronger person.

[kimi]

43. Thanks, everyone.

I really do appreciate your replies, and the hugs especially.

To clarify a few things - I don't know if he'd want me to call, really. I could ask my SIL, but I'm still ambivalent over whether or not I want to open things up again, anyway. About the kids - he thought I had too many, too young. (I did have my first at 17, and wasn't married, but went on to college, on my own.) After I married, he met 2 of them (I have 5) and then he wrote me a letter when I was pregnant with my 3rd telling me that having more than 2 was irresponsible. And they've never known him, never had any interest in doing so, they have other "grandpa" figures now. I don't really know what's the worst that will happen if I call - it's a good question that I'm still pondering. He's just always intimidated me, in a way, even at this distance, and I don't want to open up old wounds and have those affect my life at a time when I'm going through some traumatic personal stuff now, anyway.

I may go my version of halfway, and write a note, or send a card, as Kali suggests. That idea alone is sort of scary. He's a very verbal, literate person, and if he's feeling animosity towards me, he may well - in spite of his physical status - come back with something vitriolic that will really hurt me. But then, my issue would be completely resolved.

Really, thanks for the support. I was sort of scared, specially after the 4th reply (never put someone on ignore before :( ), but I appreciate that people do understand my feelings and how my past has affected me. I was kinda feeling unnatural, but it helps to know that I'm not the only one in this position out there. Thanks. :hug:

[stuntcat]

44. "that sounds awful", no I don't think it's awful.

You're not being awful. Don't let anyone make you feel you are.

[surrealAmerican]

45. Is there something you might want to put in writing and send to him?

I understand why you wouldn't want to call. If you were to write a letter, you could always decided afterword whether or not to send it.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

46. well, my experience, for what it's worth....

My mother was very mentally ill and abusive.

I nursed a wish to get back someday...I imagined I would let her have it on her deathbed someday.


When she finally was on her deathbed, and I had some years of Buddhist practice under my belt, I ended up not feeling that desire to give her what she gave me.

It never even occurred to me.

I wasn't loving and huggy or teary, that would have been fake--but I was supportive. She had one lucid afternoon, and we had maybe THE only normal discussion we'd ever had in my life (as in, mutual conversation rather than her lecturing, screaming, cutting me off, etc)

I also could sense that she was scared and hanging on (my Dad kept telling her to keep fighting), and I told her that if she didn't want to, it was OK. She was clearly relieved to hear that, it was the support she needed.

This was 15 or so years ago.....and I will always feel good about myself for WHO I WAS at the crucial moment.

It's not about your father, it's about YOU and how YOU feel about what you do.

Consider the person or people you most respect. Then, ask yourself, What kind of person do you want to be, and is this action what that person would do?

[Withywindle]

47. Go with your instinct. You don't owe him a damn thing.

You were on life support and he never made any attempt to reach out to you? His own child?


That's not how a father acts. Even many dysfunctional alcoholic fathers still manage to get it together enough to show some caring when one of their children might DIE.

I am so sorry that happened to you growing up. It sounds awful. I'm glad he never got much chance to hurt your children. It sounds like he would have, if he'd been around them.

It sounds to me like you don't want to call him. Again, search your heart. If there's a reason in there where you might want to FOR YOURSELF, then do it, but if not, if it's only for other people's benefit and is more likely to open up old wounds than to do you any emotional good, then don't. In your heart you know the answer; no one else can know. Give yourself permission to follow your gut.

[burrfoot]

48. Write him.

Write it out- whatever "it" you feel like it might help you express to him- and send it. If there's a single kind thought in your heart, include it. If there's not, however, then don't force it.

This will let him know that you're thinking of him- even if it's nothing good- and, honestly, it sounds like that alone is more than he deserves.

It sounds like a call would be too painful, and not productive anyway. Don't make this decision based on your SIL, bro, or anyone else's ideas, just go with what feels right to you and fuck the naysayers :)

Sorry you went through that, and sorry you're going through this. Hang in there.


:toast:

[Generic Brad]

51. You have no regrets

I am estranged from my family as well. My mother recently wrote me and asked me to meet with her and forgive her before it was too late. The way I look at it, it's been too late for years now. If I had lingering regrets, I would have fought to maintain our relationship before I made the decision to break ties.

You owe your father nothing. If you are already resigned to the fact that you will never see him again, visiting him in the hospital will not do your soul any good.

[Old Troop]

52. Dear Kimi

You have no obligation to a man that made your life miserable. Indifference is the feeling you have when you've processed all the feelings you have and find that the individual is nothing but a stranger. In your mind, you know what you want to do; or not do. Follow your heart.

[Bertha Venation]

53. I can only say what I would do in your shoes.

If it were me, I would not make the call.

Best of luck with your decision.

[Odin2005]

54. He does not deserve you calling him.

[kimi]

55. Again, thanks, everyone, for your support.

This has been a difficult time. Not only this issue with my dad, but one of my cats was diagnosed with cancer recently and had to be put to sleep, and then one of my last 2 bunnies died last night, which was totally unexpected, and stunned me. He was the younger of my last 2 bunnies - I still have the old boy rabbit, who's about 11 years old, but the one who passed, was only about 7 years old, had been seemingly healthy, and just went very quickly - I'm just grateful that I was there when it happened. It totally floored me.

My father is apparently pretty confused and needs 24/7 care now, and will have to go into a nursing home, at least for now. My brother is going to TX this week to work things out, and I've passed on the message that I do not want to call, but if my father wants to hear from me, and be considerate in return, I'm willing to write. But ONLY if he wants me to, and I've emphasized that the relationship is such that I am not going to mend fences if there is not a mutual desire to do so. If he is as confused as my SIL says he is - and she says he's been trending that way for awhile - talking or visiting wouldn't be beneficial to anyone.

So - that's as it stands. I have a feeling that if he is in need of such dedicated care, and so disoriented, then he may not even be aware of anything that's happened in the past. If that's the case, then I have to decide what to do then. It's hard to figure out. I like to think of myself as a compassionate, loving, forgiving person - but then I remember so many long, brutal, terrifying periods in my life, that have affected the person I am today, and will affect me for the rest of my life.

Thank you all for the support. I really, seriously, appreciate your words and comfort. They have all meant a lot to me.

[anneboleyn]

56. I have a serious illness, and I say don't call. I really empathize with you. This is very tough...

I just mean to say that I understand how things can get very difficult in a situation in which a family member is seriously ill. Your father has not been there for you as he should have been, ever. He beat you and your family members; he wasn't there when you needed him (as a father!) when you were desperately ill yourself. I know some people will say that you should call him anyway given the fact that he is very ill himself. But you must do what feels best and most right *to you.*

I don't think you are being selfish. I think your hesitancy and not wanting to call is very reasonable given the history. You father put you through hell, and as I mentioned above, he wasn't there when you were on life support! You needed him then and he wasn't a father to you.

There is a very tough situation, and I really feel for you. It sounds like you are getting some pressure from others in your family to call your father, but you have to listen to your heart on this one (cliched expression, I know, but it's the best way I can think of to express it). I don't think you'll regret your decision either way.

[Duppers]

57. been there. don't call.

I have no regrets.....other than I couldn't give them (my father & my m.i.l.) a piece of my mind before they died.

Don't beat yourself at all. As other posts have said, you don't owe him a damn thing.

[csziggy]

58. Will it harm your relationship with the rest of your family if you don't call

Or if you do? Because it will not matter for long to your father if you don't call. And only you can really know how it will affect you. But if the choice one way or another will damage the relationship you will have with the living, that is important.

If the members of your family whose opinions are important to you will be upset if you do not call, maybe you should even if only to keep them happy.

Otherwise, if you don't want to talk to him, don't. And if it will stir up things you think need to stay settled, absolutely don't talk to him.

[deutsey]

59. I've only seen my biological dad a couple times since he left my mom and me

when I was a baby. Frankly, I'm curious about what has become of him and, especially, if I have any half brothers/sisters out there, but I wouldn't go see him if he asked me to visit from his death bed.

Different scenario than yours, I know, but I hope it helps in some way.

[Demoiselle]

65. Dear Kimi...I am so sorry...

Sorry for all the pain you've endured, and sorry for the doubts you feel about your own instincts.
From what little I know of you and the life you have made for yourself...it sounds like you've made a wonderful life and have given many children and fur creatures a ton of love. Clearly you've gone out of your way to care for those you love, and there's no way you are a selfish person. You DON"T NEED MY JUSTIFICATION...or anybody's...for how you feel about visiting your father. I hope you will choose to do exactly what feels most right to you.

[Tikki]

67. You will not regret it.....

The strange feeling in retrospect will be why that person was so terrifying and how you could have been related to someone like that.

You are who you are and your brother is who he is.


Tikki

[nolabear]

70. Kimi, maybe it would be easier to think of this as between you and your other family members.

If you want them to be able to say you did the "noble" thing and it'll make your life in general easier it might be worth calling and saying whatever you're comfortable with and no more. But if it will cause you more pain than it would help, then there's nothing, NOTHING wrong with doing what you think is right. You need to have respect for yourself and your desires.

Good luck. Really. It's tough.

[Flaxbee]

71. OK. My dad died in December. I had always been in touch with him

and even though he was pretty much thoroughly awful to my mom, he never took any of his issues out on me or my sisters.

So, I am glad I stayed in touch; my situation was much different than yours.

However, his younger sister (my aunt) had quit talking to him about 5 years ago, and I tried and tried and tried to get her to call him when he was dying, and she wouldn't. Even when I told her he had been good to me and my sisters (his step-daughters), and I wish she'd take that into account, she wouldn't.

I respect her decision, but I think her feelings changed after he died. We're currently scheduling the disposal of his ashes and she wants to be there because I think she felt like she hadn't said what she wanted to say.

Even if all she had said was that she was sorry he was hurting (he didn't have an easy death) and nothing else, I know it would have meant a lot to him. And it would have meant something to me, too, because I told her (my aunt) I really didn't want him to die feeling the grief that he'd never reconciled with his only sister. But she didn't call him, and I know it hurt him. He was dying -- he didn't need that additional emotional turmoil.

I can't really tell you what to do or say because your father has treated you very badly, and mine did not - I'm just telling you what happened in my family recently.

I'm sorry you are having to struggle with this - it really never is easy.

[Dappleganger]

72. Hope this helps...

My father was also abusive and we have never had a good relationship, but he can be cordial when enough of the right people are around. When my mother had her first stroke, went through rehab and then passed away less than a year later, we worked through it be not spending much time around each other.

How old are you? Obviously you've got your own family, remember your priority is with them. My advice would be to do what you feel you can w/out compromising your current family needs. Obviously your father is having his physical needs met in the hospital, and there are other family members around. If you feel like going, then go but keep it brief. If anything you can just show up for an hour, deliver some flowers and be on your way. Then you won't have to deal w/anyone saying you didn't.

On the other hand the fact that others are pressuring you into coming to see him lets me know that they have no clue of the reality you live in and are wanting to tell you how to run your life. Your relationship w/your father isn't *their* relationship with him, so don't let them push you into doing something you aren't comfortable doing.

About forgiveness: what I have learned wrt to my father (who has never, ever apologized to me btw) is that if he does ever do that I will forgive him out loud, but unless he shows real change w/his behavior than it's no good. I am not going to give him a free pass just because it happened such a long time ago, that is between him and his Maker. But I won't let it get me down, make me bitter, vindictive, etc.

You don't need to call him or visit him, really. And with him having just had a heart attack it may stress him too much. Sending flowers or a card is enough (and I do think you should do at least that). You are a good person after all, right? :)

BTW, you have no reason to be afraid of him any more. YOu're an adult who's broken away from that pattern of abuse, and he can't hurt you again.

:hug: