Was the Mick Jagger era better than the Brian Jones, or shortly lived Keith Richards era band?

[Taverner]

[GCP]

1. Brian Jones

They were a real blues band at that time. He also used different instruments as they progressed such as the xylophone in 'Under my Thumb'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxarN-c-Z6U

[Taverner]

2. I wouldn't say the Stones were blues any more than the Beatles being blues

They were influenced by blues - but not blues in the traditional sense like early Fleetwood Mac.

They still had Skiffle on their brains.

[GCP]

3. They used to do fast twelve bar blues

Especially on their first British LP - which I'm proud to say I bought as soon as it came out. "Little by Little" is a good example, and "Little Red Rooster" is pretty damn bluesy.

[kwassa]

8. oh please, Skiffle they have never been.

how old are you?

Their first album has them cover songs by Willie Dixon, Jimmy Reed, Slim Harpo, Chuck Berry, and Rufus Thomas.

Second album had songs by Solomon Burke, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, and Alain Toussaint.

These are all black blues and R&B artists.

[cliffordu]

16. Fook me, good answer.

Of course I listened to Curtis Salgado last month in a club that holds 75 people.....

The original Stones really tried to do it right......

[Taverner]

23. Sure, they covered a lot of blues songs. So did Led Zeppelin.

The mighty Led got a lot of mileage out of Willie Dixon, but I would never consider LZ a true, straight up blues band

Now early Fleetwood Mac, that was a strict replica of the blues. I don't much care for it just as I don't much care for pure country.

I love the early Stones, but they always seemed like they sped up every blues song they covered. Case in point "Everybody Needs Somebody." Originally a much slower Chicago Blues classic. They're playing it like they've been snorting meth all night (and probably were.)

[kwassa]

32. There wasn't any meth back then.

and Jimmy Page has a long history of plagiarizing classic blues songs for Led Zep compositions. His blues roots come from the Yardbirds, where both Clapton and Jeff Beck were once guitarists..

I can tell you are young because you don't have the context of the era when you start talking about these things (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Blues songs are played at many different tempos. There is no right or wrong speed.

[Taverner]

33. Not that young - I'm in my 40s

Could it have been Dexadrine?

[kwassa]

34. Hard to know; they hadn't been arrested for drug use yet.

They were subsequently busted for amphetamine and marijuana use awhile later.

[tigereye]

19. read Keith's Bio- he really talks about how blues-obsessed

they were- the real stuff- and how they played it over and over to learn it, and then played it in clubs. "Life" is the best musician- description=bio by a rock and roller, of what sound was wanted and worked on, that I have ever read.


:hi:


as much as i love the early Brian Jones-era Stones sound, he was apparently a total pain in the ass to work with.

[hifiguy]

20. +1 on that

It's a great book. Keef is incredibly forthright about EVERYTHING and not at all self-serving. And he, Mick and Brian were all completely obsessed with the blues and Chuck Berry for years.

And the KR era was the best, though I'd extend it from "Beggars Banquet" through everything prior to Mick Taylor leaving. Actually it was the "Mick Taylor era" in which the Stones reached their peak. MT's lead playing was nothing short of sublime.

[abq e streeter]

22. I've read excerpts and looking forward to reading the whole thing eventually

I do remember many years ago, telling a young friend who was a Stones fan, but was just discovering blues, about Elmore James. He was reading a book about the Stones and I asked to look at it, and as God, Goddess and the Flying Spaghetti monster are my witnesses, I opened it up and on the page I randomly opened it to, there was a quote from Keith to the effect of "Nothing in my life mattered till I heard my first Elmore James record".

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

4. Come on, its the Keith Richards era

Beggars Banquet, Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Exile on Main St.

A whole lot of great music there. :)

[Taverner]

5. That's what I think, but some prefer the Mick days, or the Jones days

:shrug:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

6. OTHER

It's an even split between two eras: The 1965-1969 Brian Jones Stones (starting with "Out Of Their Heads," which had "Satisfaction" and "The Last Time" on THE SAME ALBUM, and ending with "Let It Bleed," the transitional album which had Brian Jones and Mick Taylor as "guests," essentially (Brian Jones – autoharp on "You Got the Silver", percussion on "Midnight Rambler," Mick Taylor – electric guitar on "Live with Me", slide guitar on "Country Honk").

The second era, just as powerful but in a different way, would be 1971-1974, the Mick Taylor years. They were probably at the peak of their powers here.

As far as the Ron Wood years...flashes of brilliance, some competent work, some disappointments. The Stones, for me, are 1965-1874.

:toast:

[Taverner]

7. The Stones were together in 1874????

:P

Seriously - I know what you mean

Playing 76's Black and Blue right now

[Amerigo Vespucci]

9. OOOPS

:rofl:

[abq e streeter]

10. From looking at Mick and Keith today, an easy enough mistake to make

[blue neen]

11. I'm with you there on the Mick Taylor years.

"Can't You Hear Me Knocking" is utter genius.

As for Ronnie Wood, I still feel he cooked up a much better guitar when he was with The Faces. :)

[Amerigo Vespucci]

12. My feeling too...

...the live album "Coast To Coast Overtures and Beginners" was basically a kiss-off as the band went down in flames, but the four studio albums...First Step, Long Player, A Nod Is As Good As A Wink, and Ooh La La...they still sound as good today as they did in the 70s, when they were released.

Wood got a little tame and predictable when he joined the Stones...proof of that can be found by listening to "Around The Plynth" from "First Step." He never went that far out on a limb on any of the Stones albums, and I've heard 'em all.

:toast:

[blue neen]

13. I've often wondered if he just went along with whatever Richards wanted,

and kind of "gave in to get along" with the Stones.

Wow, "Around the Plynth" is brilliant...too bad he couldn't have been that creative with the Stones!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

14. He did a KILLER instrumental version of "Plynth" on his live album, "Slide On Live."

At the beginning of the song he announces "Now I am going to put you in a time capsule," and then he just WAILS. He adds a SWEET instrumental snippet of "Gasoline Alley" near the end.

The album also has Bernard Fowler pulling off a perfect Rod Stewart homage on "Flying," also from "First Step."

But listening to that album, you get to hear what he keeps bottled up inside as a card-carrying Stone.

:toast:

[hifiguy]

21. I've always had that impression

In the Stones he became Keef's Keef. His own musical personality was much more to the fore with the Faces and when he served as Rod Stewart's chief lieutenant back in the days when Stewart was good (i.e., before he left England and went Hollywood).

[Taverner]

24. For me, Rod Stewart has always been a poser

Even in his faces days, he had this great band whom he didn't even deserve to share the same room with - and here he is, carbon copy of Jagger dancing around stage, hogging the camera

[hifiguy]

25. I'm not that down on the early Stewart

He was once a hell of a songwriter and singer. Those first few albums, which he did with his drinking/music buddies - none of whom ever became famous except Woody and maybe Ian MacLagan - were pretty damned solid stuff. From "Atlantic Crossing" on Stewart's output is uniformly horrible beyond words.

I've always entertained the notion that around 1976 the Space Aliens came, kidnapped the real Elton John and Rod Stewart and replaced them with imperfectly engineered clones - they looked and sounded passably real, but the talent/soul had somehow been hoovered out.

[abq e streeter]

26. Agree, and then some re: both Stewart and E.J. on their ealy albums

as well as the surprise (to me anyway) and disappointment at how lame they became, and relatively quickly too. Thought that early stuff (for both) was great.

[blue neen]

28. Yeah, it's like there was only room in that guitar section for one very strong personality.

...and that would be Keef!

[abq e streeter]

15. "utter genius" especially when you consider how much of it really was a spontaneous jam.

And agree with you on the great Mick Taylor too.

[blue neen]

27. It's so totally unique.

I'm no music expert, but IMHO Taylor's lead on this has a Santana-ish feel, just so much more raunchy. The sax is wailing, and the rhythm section just pulls it all together (so we do have to give props to Keith!).

:toast:

[abq e streeter]

29. Never thought about it being "Santana-ish", but now that you mention it, yeah I can see that

or rather, hear that. And the sax certainly does wail. That was his favorite thing he ever recorded with The Stones.

[hifiguy]

30. It's the liquidity of Taylor's style

and the unmistakeable Gibson-SG-through-a-Marshall sound that make it so reminiscent of Carlos, though I hadn't made that connection either. But Mick T sounds remarkably like Carlos does on the contemporaneous-to-Sticky-Fingers Caravanserai album, at least on that tune.

[blue neen]

31. It's interesting that you should say that, because we listened a lot to Caravanserai at that time.

Maybe that's why that particular sound was so reminiscent to me.

You learn something new everyday! :)

[cliffordu]

17. Note on this collective OP...

Bravo, you people are killing me with the depth of your knowledge.

One of the BEST OP's I've heard in a while.....

Heh.... Seen in a while.

Thanks.

[abq e streeter]

18. Kicking just to see if any other DU night owls have an opinion...

been interesting reading the replies so far.