Linux gurus, please,

[Occulus]

I have a problem.

I am trying to use my ATI Radeon 9600 board in linux. I've tried Debian, Slack, Mandrake, Redhat, and (currently) Fedora. In each distribution, I have the same problem: the Mesa libraries conflict with the official ATI driver set. Here are the commands I'm using to unpack and install the ATI drivers, and attempt to uninstall the Mesa libs:

rpm -e --nodeps XFree86-Mesa-libGL-<version> // the Mesa libs
rpm -ivh --force fglrx<etcetera> // this is the ATI driver
fglrxconfig
fglrxinfo

and at that last, fglrxinfo reports that Mesa is still installed and in use, even when the fglrx kernel module has been properly built and installed. Even when I force Mesa to uninstall!

I can't seem to be able to replace the Mesa libs with properly functioning ATI drivers. I have an X display, but no acceleration. The ATI control panel (fireglcontrol) runs, but there appears to be certain items missing; I can even get a dual head display working (clone of my monitor on my TV screen), but no acceleration.

I'd really like to Quake and Neverwinter in linux. Anyone out there have a solution?

My kernel is updated to the latest stable release, by the way. Reconfiguring my kernel seems to make no difference; does anyone have any ideas what I should do?

[are_we_united_yet]

1. Hmmmm

Not a Linux Guru but I guess your'e trying to get OpenGL (Mesa) up and running? I have successfully done it but I have an ALL-IN-Wonder card and Redhat 8.0.

[Occulus]

2. NOT Mesa

Mesa doesn't support acceleration. The ATI drivers, supposedly, do just that.

I have X and Gnome/KDE running, but without acceleration because I can't get rid of the Mesa libs. It's a runaround.

I've had several people on IRC tell me they've gotten the drivers to work, but every person I ask seems to have a different answer and the official ATI install instructions just don't work.

[are_we_united_yet]

3. Doing all this as root I take it?

[Occulus]

5. yes, as root

[are_we_united_yet]

4. I cant say

I know what is wrong. If you haven't done it already, I can suggest you post your question opengl.org forums where people who deal with this frwquently may be able to help.

[Deja Q]

7. And it's not all due to different distros either. & another note on bugs.

No one procedure works with ATi drivers and I've used directions from another person who had the identical computer hardware I've got!

Now maybe that guy had forgotten about a step (and there are many to get ATi's clownish hardware to work) but the details are outrageous, especially when ATi's own readme file says it automatically installs and configured the 3d drivers. BULL.

I did manage to get 3D to work under the ATi card. But I can tell you this: ATi, as usual, makes rubbish drivers. But I forgot to say this in my other post but along with being sloooooow, the 3d drivers are BUGGY. Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament both couldn't render the display properly.

I strongly recommend Nvidia for people who want to use 3d under Linux. If my Geforce 4600 card can match or surpass a Radeon 9800 Pro, just think of what the GeForce 5900FX can do against the 9800 Pro -- and the 5900FX is supposed to be the direct counterpart to the 9800 Pro!!!!

ATi should be embarrassed, for both speed and stability reasons.

[Deja Q]

6. ATi 3D is not easy to configure... and when you do get it to run, it's

PITIFUL AT BEST.

Now I'm going to use a Radeon 9800 Pro in my post here because it uses the same drivers and it a faster card to the 9600 you've mentioned...

I had bought an ATi Radeon 9800 Pro a few months ago, thinking it would put my Nvidia 4600 to shame... (ROTFLMAO, little did I know!!!!) I'd spent a few HOURS to edit config files, manually replace files because ATi, as as with they can't write a good windows driver, have no f*#&^ing clue on how to write a Linux driver installation procedure (yet alone a decent driver, but more on that later) but finally got the 3D working... and performance was CRAP. In GLXGEARS, in Unreal Tournament 2003, you name it. Crap crap crap.

Save yourself a lot of time and get better performance from a video card maker who knows how to make good drivers (and good hardware too):

Get a Nvidia 4600-based card instead. Clearance prices are under $100... Here's why:

ATi 9800 + Linux = performance of Nvidia 4600. And the 9800 is the next generation card from ATi while the 4600 is Nvidia's "last year's model". My 4600, in Linux, matches or surpasses the ATi 9800 at every turn. It's disgusting how ATi won't write proper drivers, be biased toward Winbloat, et cetera...

I wish I had kept my notes on how to get it to run, if you really want to use a second rate video card from a fourth rate video card maker. There are a couple of config files that need to be pointed to a different file...

[Occulus]

8. WOW.

I really, really, REALLY wish I'd known all this before I shucked out $200+ for my card (it was brand new at purchase).

Crap. So, if I want to game, I need to do it in windows.

And, I do have to say, in Windows, the ATI card performs better than anything I've ever had. BUT, if I can't get all the features in linux, well... ATI is going to get some email from me. :)

Ok, so what would you recommend I do? I wanna gaaaaaammmmme!

*snivel*

[Deja Q]

9. I've made expensive mistakes too, and I'd done some homework on the issue

I'd heard the drivers could be a pain to install. So I was prepared to do some fighting - raging against the machine. :-)

What I did not hear was how poorly the card runs under Linux when the drivers were installed and operating normally. Which is a great pity because I know how well the 9800 runs under Windows and that the 9600 is a fairly decent card in terms of performance too. With the 9800 Pro being $300 but the Nvidia 5900 being $500, you can see how the ATi would be tantalizing, to say the very least... it definitely was for me and I was heartbroken when I finally got things to run and to see it made no positive change whatsoever, but in return for my efforts received only more problems...

I was lucky to get a refund at the time...

It is true that the ATi cards perform well under Windows, and I'll admit that the last I'd read (a year or so ago) that the ATi Windows drivers weren't very solid (there's a long history I'd read...). ATi would have improved on the Windows drivers by now, otherwise they would be in bad trouble...

But unfortunately, ATi is playing a game of tokenism, with the Linux users as pawns... (which speaks volumes to the discredit of ATi. Linux may be a niche OS, but if Nvidia will take the time to write a solid, top-notch driver, for such a small group of people, why not other companies?)

Do you still have time to return the card, if you wanted to go the Linux route at some point? (of course, ATi will inevitably get its act together, especially when Linux becomes more popular...)

I will probably try ATi again in the future, in a year or two, to see if they've listened to people and improved on their work. But for now, when it comes to Linux, Nvidia's got my vote.