Need advice: should I evacuate my home? As I sit here, my

[DebJ]

basement is filling with water. I've never faced anything like this in my life. I need to use this forum to vent and help release some of my fear. And any hints on whether / when I should evacuate. Hubby is sleeping; he has to go to work tomorrow (he is a teacher). We don't have anywhere to evacuate to, except maybe a friends sofa and floor.

I live in York, Pa. We've had about 7 inches of rain and it is still raining,and supposed to rain many more days. The front walls have sprouted about 15 pinholes, and water is shooting through them in a thin but rapid stream, out 3 feet. We have two inches from the last 2 hours or less.

We had some flooding earlier today because my neighbor, who is higher up on the hill our street is on, had a contractor regrade his lawn to fix his basement flooding problem. Our houses are positioned on a hill in two ways: going from my house to his is uphill, and our yards slope from higher up in the back yards to lower down in the front and the street. The contractor graded it so that all the water now runs directly towards the back of my house, instead of into the street. I was near hysteria this morning watching the torrential stream head right to my home. After searching for an hour to no effect in my garage for something to effectivey divert the water flow, I finally realized I could take the straw the contractor put down on my neighbors lawn and move enough mud to create a barrier to encourage the water flow towards the front of his house and into the street instead of into my back yard, which had become a swimming pool. There was some puddling in the basement, and it of course continued for the next several hours, but got no more than 1 inch deep in the worst spots and didn't cover the entire floor. That is how it looked still at 6 pm. I told hubby the storm drains in the area are so full there is no place for the water in the drains under the house to go. The water is rushing down the street with such ferocity it would hold back any side streams with less velocity.

I guess there was some truth to that conjecture, for at 12:10 I checked the basement and found the water had actually receded, gone down the drain, and the floor was actually drying a bit. At 1:15am I opened the basement door and heard water running. I turned on the light to see the entire floor covered with water at least 1 inch deep. I waded to the walls and found the pinholes mentioned above.

I just went downstairs again, at 2:20 am. The water is now 3.5 inches deep, but most of the pinholes have stopped shooting water. But two have grown larger and it is running in very steadily. The rain has lessened but it is still steady and my street (which is a hill) is covered several inches deep in rushing water (meaning no room in the drains).

How deep before my washer and dryer are ruined? My furnace? My water softener? Thank God the water heater is tankless and is on the wall about 3 feet off the floor.

Dear God in merciful heaven. The weather forecast is for rain every hour from now until 1 am Saturday, and maybe beyond...the hourly forecasts do not go beyond that time.

Those of you who read this and pray, please pray for us. I have been unemployed for months, and our money is beyond tight; our bills are past due. We are 55 and 61, and our mortgage is, pardon the pun, 'underwater'. We just remarried 6 years ago after serious financial losses for each of us in prior divorces (I had a handicapped child and had to work for 15 years two jobs as a single parent). We have no resources. We are too old to start over again. Tell me again why I should quit smoking? Smoking will keep me from being homeless in old age, because I'll be dead instead. But now, maybe I will be homeless tomorrow. Dear God please be merciful.

On edit: I called 911 an hour ago to ask for advice about the need for evacuating. They said they are extremely busy but would call back. They might never get back to me. Earlier today, 5 miles away, they had to pull 2 men out of a vehicle because a creek flooded and the water suddenly rose to the windows of their SUV. I can't believe it.

[Duer 157099]

1. I have no advice, just an ear

If I were the praying sort, I'd be praying for you. I feel your pain and anguish. Stay strong, someone will be along here with advice, I'm sure.

[DebJ]

3. Thanks. It's nice just to ''hear' another voice as I sit here in

the dark and rain, alone and fearful. It means a great deal. Thanks.

[Duer 157099]

5. Being in California, I'm not really familiar with basements

and how much they can tolerate before you have to get worried, and I don't even understand what it means when there are pinhole leaks, maybe that's normal? :shrug:

I guess just keep doing what you are doing, keep an eye on the water level; it's a good sign that the water level went down for a bit, I guess that shows that drainage is still possible. Keep in touch with local authorities about what to do, don't wait for them to call you back.

If it were me, I'd be doing the same thing, between worrying, I'd be on DU either for advice or just someone to talk to, or a distraction.

Stay strong. It will be daylight soon.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Get out, now.

Your life is at stake.

I doubt there will be school tomorrow.

Get out.

[DebJ]

4. Thanks for the concern Peggy.

[DebJ]

9. The City of York schools are always the very, very, very last

ones in the county to close. One time a year ago, they announced a snow closing after all of the teachers had threatened their lives by driving and arriving there.

[LeftyMom]

6. Are the roads out passable in your vehicle?

At the very least keep an eye on that, and start gathering things and getting ready to get out. Your safety is more important than your stuff, if you're not sure, leave. If you don't think you can get out safely (and more people die on the road in floods than in their houses) sit tight and call 911.

Wake up your husband if you're this worried. Yeah, he's got work in the morning (IF they don't cancel, IF he can get there safely,) but the whole point of a relationship is being there for each other in bad situations like this. He'll be okay, coffee exists for a reason.

[DebJ]

10. He was up for awhile. I'm glad he went back to bed because

of his health history. Coffee is a no-no. Heart attack; heart damage; inoperable arterial blockages close to the heart; diabetes, high blood pressure. He needs sleep to keep living.

They had to pull two people out of a vehicle 5 miles from here when water suddenly rushed up to the windows of the SUV. I just couldn't believe it happened on that street. Many, many roads are closed. In other words: we wouldn't know until we got into it, too late. Guess that is a good reason to stay. At least until daylight.

[Angry Dragon]

7. I would think once things have settled down you might have a lawsuit

against your neighbor and his contractor by putting your house
in danger of flooding
The contractor has an obligation to not endanger others

[DebJ]

8. Hubby did talk to them around 4 pm when the wife got home.

She said her husband already decided before today the contractor needed to re=do work because of things he had observed/videod at their home, so the contractor is supposed to be coming back anyway. Until he does, maybe we need to
dig a real trench.

I called our township manager, she said the township could send a letter, that the neighbors are responsible, but it becomes a civil matter.

So far neighbors look like they will work with us. I know this wasn't their intent nor negligence.

The water in the basement isn't soley because of the grading at this point. The ground is so saturated, it is even bubbling up through the bottom of the concrete floor. When I walked over to the neighbors at noon to leave a letter and pictures at their door, I sank down 4 inches in what was hard dirt this summer.

Local paper just reported that 6.24 inches of rain fell by 11:30 pm, with another 1 to 2.5 inches expected overnight.

I think that I once read that in Pennsylvania, liability only wins in the court if whatever occurred is 100% the fault of that party. Sounds like Pennsylvania to me.

[suninvited]

19. I agree!

They can't just come remove the water from one homeowner and direct the water at another homeowner.

[DebJ]

11. Update 3:30 am. I still hear water running in, like a large

trickling sound over in the corner (didn't go there this time). But I took a ruler down with me and it seems to be just about 2 inches. Either I measured wrong before (using the side of my foot), or the water has gone down, but at least for now, it is not increasing significantly. The water flow down the street is about 1.5-2 ft less wide than it was; hopefully soon some water will drain out of the basement if it hasn't started to already.

But we have 6 more days and nights of rain.

[necso]

12. I'd turn off the circuit-breakers

to anything in the basement. And then I'd check the drain (the grate, the cover "screen") to see if the intake is clogged (sometimes it doesn't take much to fill in the holes in the grate).

And I'd look to rent a pump from a rental place when it opens. (Maybe the neighbors whose drainage you're getting will assist.)

[DebJ]

13. To get to the circuit breakers in the basement, I have to wade

through all of the water. Good lord just think it could sprout from the walls into the box itself. Hmm.

I did just pull out from the garage a pair of rubber boots... real rubber. They are way too big but likely safer.

The floor drains are large but funky. We have tried pouring a bucket of water down them before (collected by the dehumidifier, ha, what a joke now!), and the water seems more inclined to pile around the drain then to go down it.
The covers are about 6 inches in diameter, and full of little holes, and they were cemented into the floor so we
can't replace them without cement work being done.

The rain has all but stopped for just these few moments and the flood in the street is down about half. Hopefully now
some water will begin to go down the drains shortly.

Hoping for my sweetie's peace of mind the water goes down significantly before he wakes up for work. His job is
quite stressful enough.

[necso]

15. Rubber boots are good;

so are rubber gloves. You could also take like a plastic milk-crate, wooden box, a nonconductor, to stand on. If it's cb's not fuses, a stick or sturdy plastic utensil should suffice to open them; use nothing wet, metal.

Take a wire brush (or whatever you have) and give the cover-screens a good going-over -- you may have to repeat this from time to time. If you have anything roughly the size of the holes, try using this to clear them. (If you can keep the water below a certain height, damage might not be as bad.)

Sometimes the "screen" itself can be pulled, if so there should be a distinct ring where the screen meets its "holder" (for want of a better word), not the concrete flooring.

A small drop of food coloring may help to determine if the water is flowing out (or in... a real problem) the drains, how well it is, and whether your cleaning has any effect.

If other people are flooding, the rental places won't have pumps long.

[DebJ]

14. Animal habitats are disrupted here. Today a possum was

wandering down the road, in the road, then circled back, and circled around again and again. In broad daylight. It's nose was to the ground, as if trying to locate something. Maybe a female who lost her nest/litter while out looking for food?

I have a window open now and I'm hearing birds I've never heard before make odd noises. I think it is birds.

Hope the groundhog I like to watch in my yard is okay. Any animal dens here could easily have flooded/caved in.

Must admit I'm not that concerned for Mr. Skunk, though I haven't been graced with his presence over the last year,
since two cats seem to have relocated to this neighborhood.

[pitohui]

27. be very careful about animals in water

i don't know if you have poisonous snakes in pennsylvania but in louisiana many times cottonmouths are washed out and are swimming in the flood waters, have seen them with my own eyes

[LaurenG]

16. Our basement collects water when it rains too hard so we bought

a submersible pump from Lowe's. I have a pair of boots, a garden hose and the pump ready to go when it floods here. I wish you well - hopefully the water will start to go down and stay that way.

[Waiting For Everyman]

17. A link to the PEMA site with info. (PA Emergency Management)

There are directions for applying for assistance, and more links:

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=4687&&mode=2

Something on there might lead you to some help. I hope you find what you need.


Edit: to add links to two online newspapers...

York Daily Record
http://www.ydr.com/local/ci_18838318?source=most_viewed

York Dispatch
http://www.yorkdispatch.com/news/ci_18842297


Here's also the Red Cross website, add your zipcode for the local office. Maybe they can supply some answers about the flooding in your house too:
http://www.redcross.org/

I saw on Twitter that part of the Phila. Expressway is closed. This is a serious flood in your area.

[necso]

18. It seems to have been a couple of hours

since you last posted.

So I'm going to guess that you're busy (and physically unharmed).

When you get a chance later on, give us an update.

...

It's best to let anything electrical dry out real well before trying it. Some things (like maybe the furnace) can be opened up and checked for water damage.

I'm going to "bed" now.

Good luck.

[DebJ]

20. Thanks to all who helped to keep me calmer and offered

advice. After I posted my last message, I heard in the basement the buzzing noise one hears when electricity meets water.
It started to get louder. I called 911, fearing a fire, they said someone would be out. 30 minutes later, an exhausted fireman calls and says "We can't pump out your basement. We took 100 calls and we can't take anymore". I said that wasn't why I called, I am afraid my house is catching fire. He replied "Call back if I see or smell smoke" and said he could call Met-Ed to disconnect the electric from outside the house. I said oh I can do that. (The local paper said something like 911 had 749 calls between 10 am and 2 pm Wednesday, compared to like 230 same time the day before).

I called Met Ed, they said they would get here when they could and had no idea as to when. It was now 5:30 am. I didn't here anymore water running, but the buzzing had grown incredibly loud. At first I thought it was the dehumidifier which was plugged in, but up on a stand, but the cord (a big orange one) was underwater. Over time, I realized it was the freezer, which I had totally ignored because it is just a small chest freezer I rarely use, and am so used to it being there, I don't 'see' it when my eyes scan the room.

I woke up my husband, urging him to at least put on a pair of pants and have his car keys on him in case a fire started. He didn't understand why (*&^%$$), but finally did as I asked. I began loading some of my clothes into the car. He asked why. I said well if we don't have a house tomorrow, I at least want clothes to wear. I will need to keep looking for a job. He said why don't you just sit down and wait for Met Ed. OMG. I'm thinking I may have time to save important things from a potential fire, and he wants me to just sit here. Can you imagine having time to save critically needed things, and just sitting there?

I began to load into my van things like our important papers, passports, teaching certification stuff. Then kids photo albums. I unplugged my computer so I could snatch it quickly if necessary. I have thousands of family photos and have yet to get an external drive for back-up.

6:00 am or so, the buzzing stops. I don't know why. Still terrified but a tiny bit less.

7:45: still no Met Ed. I begin wondering what will we do after they get here? I'm thinking go into the basement, unplug everything, turn off circuit breakers for the basement. It really is hard to plan, to know what to do, when panic hits, you have no sleep, can't eat because you are too upset/uptight, and never imagined nor witnessed such a thing before. Emergency plans for a flood in the house are not something that ever crossed my mind. Yet post 90-11, I created an emergency bag with even a bit of plastic and rope for a tent and other emergency supplies (even a dish/utensil kit).

So I thought, then what? I will need an electrician to tell me what is useable or not, to check the outlets on the walls, 3 feet up well above floor water, but where water has wet the inside of those walls, just flowing through the cinderblock. Electrician's office wasn't open yet.

I called again at 8. Electrician told me the buzzing stopped because the line heated enough to trigger the circuit breaker. Oh, right, now I get it. They said someone would be over between 10 and 11. I took a quick nap, less fearful I'd wake up in a burn unit at the hospital.

I love these people. Stewartstown Electric, for anyone in York or Stewarstown. We got screwed over by 4 electricians before we found these wonderful, polite, informative people who seem to know what they are doing.

The polite young man came at 10:30, put on rubber boots, and waded right in. He turned off the basement breakers, and unplugged the freezer (which he said died), and the dehumidifier, which he said was fine, because where the unit cord met the extension cord had been on the shelf above the water and the orange cord can take the water. He unplugged everything, and examined our floor drains, and told me they were blocked and we needed a plumber ASAP. Said he doesn't think the furnace is damaged, unless water had been another 1/2 inch to one inch higher. And it is still raining, though lightly. The eletrician explained to me that this area has very little soil, and underground there is a high water table with solid rock underneath. When the ground gets this wet, there is no where for water to go but in the house, but if our quite ample drains were not clogged, the water would have just run back out. I feel really stupid, but I don't know how these things worked and have never seen anything like this in my life.


So now I'm waiting for a plumber. Will probably be on overtime, but that is still cheaper than a new furnace. I just hope to God someone can loan us $500 or $600 to get us past this next month or two.

I'm going to run and start removing some of the water by 5 gallon bucket fulls up the steps in hopes more rain won't wet the furnace.
ON EDIT: Met Ed, the electric company, never did show up. I called them at 11 am to cancel, and the woman seemed stunned that no one had ever called or come out; she couldn't seem to understand that. Turns out the electrician was cheaper.

[applegrove]

21. Our cottage flooded 7 inches one time. I dried itself out and the carpet was fine. Could happen!

[Old Troop]

22. Get out now! There are 31 shelters open in PA right now for flood

victims. They're operated by very good people and will provide the things you need until you return to your home. There will probably be a Presidential Disaster Declaration for this flooding and, if you file with FEMA, there will be money to execute repairs.

[NV Whino]

23. Sump pump and an attorney

Sounds like your neighbor's contractor didn't do his job properly. The pump will keep the level down and maybe save your appliances.

[Shagbark Hickory]

24. Yes. Simple as that.

[snooper2]

25. Stick a hose in the water, run it out a window, go outside and start sucking..

Now you have a siphon going, you are good to go about your chores...

Clean up after it stops raining and call Holmes on Homes to do a proper seal around the outside of your basement :)

[pitohui]

26. my thought from southeast louisiana are that it sounds manageable but keep eye on it

i will certainly pray for you and will offer a few comments that i hope will be somewhat helpful

for one thing once you've made the decision to shelter in place, you are probably already committed because if the basements are flooded, it's quite likely that it is now unsafe for you to drive because streets may be flooded as well -- do NOT be like those guys in the SUVs, if you are just having some basement flooding, and some small leaks in the roof here and there, you will be safer off than driving the flooded streets most of the time

of course i would take note of what national weather service says...however, DO NOT PANIC...a great many basements flood every year, and a great many houses get a few inches of water a year, and people get through it just fine...if your county or town announces an evacuation, then evacuate, since 911 didn't advice you immediately to get out, my guess is that they do not consider your problem an emergency and there is no evacuation declaration for your county...can you call the county or town of york to find out for sure if you are supposed to evacuate? down here, this information is put repeatedly, over and over again, on TV and radio news, and also on the weather channels so people are never left in doubt

also, do not worry so much (i know easy for me to say) but truly you are not going to be dead and homeless because your basement flooded or your washer/dryer filled up -- this stuff looks big because of your financial troubles but it might actually HELP your financial troubles, for instance, FEMA might make grants or loans available to you because of the storm that you might not otherwise have gotten to help you out in your time of need


there are many programs in place to help people recover from flood damage, you do not have to prove you are destitute, the help is fast in coming compared to applying for medicaid or public assistance

i agree that today is probably the wrong day to stop sniffing glue (as the old joke goes), if smoking helps you keep your head, smoke, there will be time to tackle big hairy self improvement jobs later, the middle of a natural disaster is more the time to maintain and if smoking helps calm your nerves, i'm not going to criticize you

from time to time during this crisis let us know how you are doing, we are all thinking of you and rooting for you

also don't be too quick to blame the neighbor, before you get involved in litigation, check it out carefully, i believe you are actually being flooded by remnants of tropical storm lee or another system that moved north and that lots of people are getting flooded, in which case you have no case against your neighbor and you could get in a bad situation of neighbor against neighbor to no profit and no purpose -- you have a year to decide to sue someone, maybe more, let's worry about who caused the flooding later

[LynneSin]

28. I just saw your message today. I've been glue to PennLive and Channel 27 online all day

My parents are outside Middletown near the Swatara Creek (same creek that has Hershey underwater and responsible for the death of the 2 Bison).

So far they are fine - luckily the road to their house goes up hill. But they are without power/cable/landline phone.

I PM'd you my phone number and the location of the York shelters but it seems the electric issue has been addressed.

Also be careful with the water. There are a slew of water emergencies out there including one from Gov. Corbett. Many of the water systems & wells have been contaminated and they recommend boiling any water you get out of your tap.