Do you raise your hands at church?

[ButterflyBlood]

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only DUer that does this.

Usually I just put one arm in the air though and sway a bit. Not like the people who also jump around (I see a lot of them at my church) or the people who'll actually kneel on the floor and outstretch both their arms (my church doesn't have pews or those kneeling rails, so they'll just kneel on the tile floor.)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I generally avoid church.

However, when I did go, I never saw anybody raise their hands or gyrate about. It wasn't done. Anybody who started carrying on like that would get a lot of funny looks, and might be assumed to be a bit odd.

[ButterflyBlood]

3. That's partially why I'm somewhat dreading my cousin's confirmation

It'll be at what I believe is a pretty traditional Lutheran church where I'd look pretty odd doing that, and churches where people don't interact like that are extremely boring to me.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Lutherans are generally disinclined toward thrashing about

and making a scene in church, as are Episcopalians. It's just unnecessary. So, when in Rome...

[ButterflyBlood]

5. I was raised Lutheran I know

there are more contemporary Lutheran churches here where people do stuff like that but I doubt this is one of them.

[NightWatcher]

2. Another vote for heathen/atheist. Was raised Southern Bapt (mom)& Pentacostal (dad)

But I'm feeling much better now

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

6. That's generally a Charismatic thing.

You're free to do it or not as the Spirit moves you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_Movement

[pokerfan]

8. Well, that answers my question...

:hi:

[ButterflyBlood]

11. Yep, I go to a relatively progressive charismatic church

Very youthful too, average age is probably like 25.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. Yes, and there are charismatic Catholics and Episcopalians, even, who do that

Personally, my one experience with a charismatic Episcopal church was a bad one, because the priest treated the charismatic members of the parish as some sort of elites, and at the service I attended, he told the congregation that people who objected to his favoritism toward the charismatic were committing "the one unforgivable sin, blaspheming against the Holy Spirit." After I picked my jaw up off the floor I decided that I wanted no part of this parish.

The bishop soon got wind of what was going on and threw this priest out of the diocese, because showing favoritism among parishioners is a huge no-no, as is misquoting the Bible to make up your own doctrines.

[pokerfan]

7. Then what happens?

Does the minister call on you? :) I was pretty much raised agnostic/atheistic and when I did find myself in church it was Lutheran. Not a whole lot of jumping around in a Lutheran church.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. During worship songs. Like the people in the crowd in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-08YZF87OBQ

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. So how is that different from a rock concert except for the lyrics to the songs?

:shrug:

Does your church have any sort of systematic education program for members?

Do they teach you religious history?

Do they follow the common lectionary, or does your minister just preach on whatever he feels like?

Where did your ministers receive their training?

Or is it all pure emotion?

[ButterflyBlood]

39. Answers:

Does your church have any sort of systematic education program for members?
Yes. They just started a 10-week course called "Seek" for those new or returning to faith, and also started their membership covenant course for those looking at formal membership of the church (even though that's not really considered a big deal and most people who go aren't members.)

Do they teach you religious history?
The Bible certainly qualifies, so yes.

Do they follow the common lectionary, or does your minister just preach on whatever he feels like?
He usually does multi-sermon series based around a common theme or book in the Bible. If by "common lectionary" you mean some guide written by the denomination or church hierarchy then no because the church is essentially non-denominational and only has a loose association with a larger group. So whatever the specific sermon is about is pretty much up to whoever's speaking that week (which also includes his wife a co-lead pastor, some associate pastors and sometimes guests from associated churches or people in their internship).

Where did your ministers receive their training?
The Vineyard Leadership Institute: http://www.vli.org

[Lucian]

9. I sacrifice goats and the blood of the innocent to His Infernal Majesty at my church.

I want Him to rise so I can slay Him and take over His position.

[Tom Ripley]

10. What's church?

[Bombero1956]

13. I never do the windshield wiper in church

nor do I understand why some folks feel the need to.

[ButterflyBlood]

14. Same reason you would at a sports game or concert

Whenever I'm at one of my live music events you see people pushing each other around, jumping on top of each other and running around in circle pits, so merely waving your hands in the air is pretty tame to me.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. To be sure all your friends see you on the Jumbotron?

[Iggo]

15. Glory antennas. (n/t)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. Gotta be sure everybody around you knows you're all full of Jesus.

[ButterflyBlood]

26. It's not like that at all, people moshing don't think like that

If I'm moshing or doing a lot of jumping in the pit I'm not trying to make sure the people in the back or corner just sipping their drinks think I'm into it, I'm just too moved to stand still. Same with people crowdsurfing, etc.

I've noticed it's kind of "contagious", I think people raised in churches that are far more staid and sedentary (like myself and of which there are tons at my church, possibly a majority) find it kind of weird at first (I sure didn't do it at my first couple services), but after awhile you're like "Hey why not try it" and get moved and actually into it. So basically the same as moshing in that sense.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. Of course it's contagious. It's a sort of mass self-hypnosis.

Just like at a football game where everybody gets all caught up in the excitement and yells for their team - only worse, because at these churches everybody thinks Jesus is doing it to them, when they are really just doing it to themselves.

Have you ever thought of just sitting quietly and *thinking* about the experience of faith? I'm not religious myself, but if you approach church as something like a mosh pit or a sports event, you might be missing something profound.

[ButterflyBlood]

33. I can do that anywhere.

No need to go to church for that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

36. Then why go to church when you can get the same buzz from a mosh

or a football game?

[ButterflyBlood]

40. I do go to lots of shows with moshing too

In a couple hours I'm heading up to Explosions in the Sky (not exactly mosh music granted though I expect to see lots of swaying, I'm probably going to try to get stoned beforehand too.) But I'm a Christian who wasn't going to church for the longest time (I didn't go for six years once I was out of high school unless I was with family and was a mostly just Easter and Christmas one for awhile after that), fairly recently though I realized how much I desired the community and that not all churches are like the boring and aged ones I grew up in. I go to a relatively progressive and very youthful church (like 85% of the congregation under 40) with fantastic people.

[Orrex]

17. I have a friend who is Christian and has performed Christian pop music for years

He describes such displays as "creepy."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. They are definitely creepy.

You get a bunch of glassy-eyed people groovin' to the Jesus thing (which is fine, if that's what blows your skirt up). But what's really going on isn't Jesus making them gyrate - it's the gyrations making them think they're getting a big juicy dose of Jesus. Repetitive physical movements induce a kind of trance state (think of whirling dervishes); add to this a lot of loud (and usually awful) music and the group dynamic and you've got a powerful psychological effect. But Jesus isn't doing it; they are doing it to themselves.

If you want to find God, or at least think you have, go to a cathedral, walk a labyrinth, or sit quietly in the woods. Just sit and shut up.

[Arugula Latte]

22. Definitely creepy.

I have to change the channel if one of those commercials for Xtian worship music comes on and it shows a bunch of white people with their shirts tucked into their khakis with their eyes closed, swaying and holding up their arms. Creepy. :scared:

[Orrex]

23. Their God is an awesome god, apparently

[ButterflyBlood]

25. My church doesn't really play that type of music thankfully

The worship band covers a lot of Christian contemporary songs (along with some classic hymns) and songs frequently on those compilations but they change the music and it's more of an indie rock style, they sound a lot like Rainer Maria (if familiar with them) or Interpol. Not any of this "Awesome God" type stuff. Considering most of the congregation is hipster-esque 20somethings this makes sense. We have just as many hipster neckscarves as your typical coffee shop. I've even smelled pot on people before!

[ButterflyBlood]

24. That's kind of odd

Do you think the band in this video finds how the crowd is acting creepy? They are certainly more into it than people simply raising their hands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgL7Fh6ZjnI

Or this one (which is actually a Christian band)? Note how they are yelling "MOSH PIT" at times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFFHmV71AOo

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. Yes. They are hypnotized.

I don't think you should be hypnotized in church.

[ButterflyBlood]

34. People moshing are hypnotized?

nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

37. People Jesusing and waving their arms to bad music are hypnotized

in the same way whirling dervishes put themselves in self-induced trances. It's not the message, it's the delivery that gives you the buzz. You have already admitted church is just like going to a mosh.

"Religious ecstasy" is a common phenomenon. People do weird shit to psych themselves into thinking God is visiting them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ecstasy

[Orrex]

35. I don't know about all that. Just that he finds it creepy.

I believe that what bothers him about it is that he's simply playing music, but the overt swooners are reacting to something that he doesn't feel is actually in his performance. Contrast that with the mosh pit crowd that's responding to the music and the beat rather than a visitation by a supernatural entity.

I guess it's like watching someone speak in tongues; they might believe that it's real, but mostly it sounds like a lot of babbling gibberish.

[av8rdave]

18. If I see a touchdown scored, yes

[HERVEPA]

20. If I have to go to the bathroom and feel the need to ask permission,

[bigwillq]

27. I don't go to church (nt)

[mysuzuki2]

30. if you just raise one hand

god might think you just have to go potty.

[trof]

38. Only during hold-ups.

:rofl:

[snooper2]

41. Only when I'm flipping the bird

LOL :rofl: