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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 09:34 AM
Original message
Judge Souter's House & 'Eminent Domain'
CAVEAT: the url below leads to an email generator hosted by Capwiz.com, which is hosting the page for RightMarch.com.

(The URL is deadlinked, replace 'hxxp' with 'http' if you want to have a look.)

RightMarch is the Anti-MoveOn.org

However... they are doing something interesting;

ALERT: Are you as OUTRAGED as I am about the Supreme Court's recent decision, allowing city governments to take land from one private owner and give it to another? In "Kelo vs. City of New London", five Justices (led by David Souter) ruled that "eminent domain" allows any local government to TAKE anyone's private property if the government will generate greater tax revenue -- or any other economic benefits -- when the land is developed by the new owner.

snip

So, in keeping with what has now been deemed "constitutional", a private developer has contacted the local government in Supreme Court Justice David Souter's hometown in New Hampshire, asking that the property of the judge be seized to make room for a new hotel, to be named "The Lost Liberty Hotel".

According to WorldNetDaily.com, Logan Darrow Clements faxed a request to the town of Weare, N.H., seeking to start the application process to build a hotel on 34 Cilley Hill Road, the present location of Souter's home.

Wrote Clements: "Although this property is owned by an individual, David H. Souter, a recent Supreme Court decision, Kelo v. City of New London, clears the way for this land to be taken by the government of Weare through eminent domain and given to my LLC for the purposes of building a hotel. The justification for such an eminent domain action is that our hotel will better serve the public interest as it will bring in economic development and higher tax revenue to Weare."

snip

TAKE ACTION: This is not a prank. The town of Weare has five people on the Board of Selectmen. If three of them vote to use the power of eminent domain to take this land from Mr. Souter, Mr. Clements can begin his hotel development -- and we can begin the process of *reversing* this travesty of justice. He already plans to raise investment capital from wealthy pro-liberty investors and draw up architectural plans. These plans would then be used to raise additional capital for the project.

FINALLY, these tyrants in black can "face the music" and actually EXPERIENCE what they're putting the rest of us through! Click below now to send a message to all five members of the town of Weare's Board of Selectmen at once, asking them to see that "Justice Is Served" by implementing Souter's decision and putting a hotel on HIS property:

hxxp://capwiz.com/sicminc/issues/alert/?alertid=7771381&type=CU


I'm not recommending that you use their page, or their verbage. But I agree that Justice Souter needs a taste of his own medicine.

Enterprising DUers could surely use the 'google' device to find contact information for the town of Weare to write the appropriate Board of Selectmen.

Or you could click here. Note: Reynolds and Cook look to be finishing their terms this year, so writing them probably won't help.

I personally consider this a pretty low-priority item, but hey, if ya gotta minute...
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is this a freeper post?
Is this a freeper post or you don't understand how our government works? The SC basically said the burden is on the states to set limits on eminent domain. In other words, the SC recognizes there may be legitimate reasons to use eminent domain for business development. If state's want to restrict that, they can pass their own laws. Eminent domain is obviously a political issue that should be addressed by politicians, not by judges. Several states (Alabama, for instance) are already looking into legislation to restrict the use of eminent domain.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. My husband is not a freeper.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 09:43 AM by fudge stripe cookays
And you might want to check the DU rules before you go throwing that word around so lightly.

Anyone around here knows reprehensor to be a helluva liberal.

When judges start putting the rights of places like "The Gap" over the rights of the individual, because they think that The Gap could bring in more money (never mind that it's a family home that's been in the family for 40 or 50 years) something is SERIOUSLY wrong with this country.

This time, Souter got it terribly wrong. People are trying to wake him up to this.

FSC
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The judges did no such thing.
SCOTUS affirmed that local governments continue to have the right to exercise emminent domain. They did not rule on the merits of using ED in this particular case. This was an attempt by big business to push aside local governments in favor of state and federal governments, which they find easier to control. Smartly, they used a rather unpopular case to push their agenda. A lot of us have fallen for their ruse, myself included, until somebody here nicely volunteered me a clue.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Educate me.
Do you have a link or two to endarken me?

An article pointing out how wrong I am would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. OK
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/23/10559/5709

This link covers the untold side of the Kelo case. Most telling is the SCOTUS vote:

FOR THE MAJORITY:
Stevens
Breyer
Ginsburg
Kennedy
Souter


DISSENTING:
O'Connor
Rehnquist
Scalia
Thomas


Why would the far right corporatist/fascist wing of the court be lined up on one side while the centrist moderate wing is lined up on the side you find abhorent? Bit odd don't you think?

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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That is a good thread.
It is very long and there is a lot of discussion about the ruling. Thank you for that link.

So the ruling wasn't about the 'merits of using ED in this particular case'. It was about whether or not 'economic development' falls under the definition of 'public use'... do I have that right?

Stevens couches it thusly;

"This Court's authority, however, extends only to determining whether the City's proposed condemnations are for a "public use" within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment to the Federal Constitution. Because over a century of our case law interpreting that provision dictates an affirmative answer to that question, we may not grant petitioners the relief that they seek."

The opening post makes this point;

"As first glace (sic), you may think that giving private homeowner property to a private corporations is a bad thing. And it very well might be in many cases. However, if the Court had ruled differently and NOT allowed local governments to do this, it would have been a disaster for local governments to build for the community (including when the purpose is to help the environment, build affordable housing, create jobs, etc.). It would have sacrificed needed community power at the hands of the sort of property-rights extremism frequently displayed by right-wing libertarian types."


The only problem is, at second glance, giving private homeowner property to a private corporations is a bad thing, IMO.

So why didn't the judges fashion a ruling that would have narrowed the definition of 'public use' to mean 'help the environment, build affordable housing, create jobs, etc.' If the moderates could land this ruling, why could they not clearly define 'public use'?

Despite the fact that this would have broken precedent with 100 years of previous rulings, maybe it's time for a change. 100 years ago, the top 1% of the wealthiest citizens weren't sucking the country dry on the scale we see today.

Dire Radiant says:

Their next step after Kelo, had the dissenters won, would be to revisit the balancing test for whether gov't regulation amounts to a taking. In the next case about regulatory taking, the PRA would point to the public good test established by the SCOTUS... whatever it might be... and argue that the regulatory purpose was not good enough to satisfy that test. So much for gov't regulatory power; every regulatory law that industry doesn't like (and isn't that all of them?) would be tied up in Kelo challenges.


Huh? Industry is getting around government regulatory power by getting pro-industry types appointed by pro-industry Administrations, like George Walker Bush's administration.

Lobbyists are 'taking care' of legislation. Joe Biden is a credit card lobby ho.

Unless you are rich, it is nearly impossible to run a viable congressional campaign without corporate financial backing, since their donations make up about 75% of the money that candidates receive . In the most recent election, the candidate who raised the most money won 94% of the time .

Once elected, an army of roughly 20,000 corporate lobbyists provides constant reminders of just whose money elected whom. The combination of corporate political donations and pressure from lobbyists is an excellent investment for the corporate world. It helps them frame the issues and keep critical interests out of the halls of government. Sometimes the payoff is direct. In 2000, corporations received $125 billion in tax-breaks and subsidies, a return of about 100 to 1 on their investment. In addition to draining taxpayer dollars to support corporate welfare, the government also heavily subsidizes the research and development side of many industries, particularly the pharmaceutical, technology and military hardware/weapons industries, spending billions of government dollars and then giving away the findings for virtually nothing to corporations, who proceed to make a profit.


They already challenge every piece of legislation they can with challenges of all sorts, they don't need no steenkin' Kelo decision.

So, hypothetical fears are posited against making a useful ruling to set limits on ‘public use’, which the court could have done. It was within their scope to tackle the meaning. To me, that is the problem with this ruling; and Conservative and Libertarian blogs are making hay with it. One of the most disgusting, Bush worshipping Senators, (Cornyn of Texas), whom I am inflicted with, is even scoring points with this ruling;

In Congress, Sen. John Cornyn (R) of Texas has introduced the protection of homes, small businesses, and private property act. A similar, bipartisan bill has been introduced in the House.

"The power of eminent domain should not be used simply to further private economic development," said Mr. Cornyn in a statement. The bill would bar federal funds for state and local governments that seize land for private development.


When a partisan knucklehead like Cornyn can look good due to a ruling like this, there is something wrong.

Listen to this quote;

Eminent domain is mentioned in the Constitution. For generations, the power was used almost exclusively for roads, bridges and public buildings, said Adrian Moore, vice president of the Reason Foundation, a nonprofit policy group in Los Angeles.

Politicians abuse eminent-domain power to achieve policy goals that have nothing to do with the public good, Moore said.

"Taking people's property away for a public interest is one thing, but taking it away to give to another use that will pay more taxes is terrible," Moore said. "That means that nobody's property is safe."
Moore said Des Moines' use of eminent domain is a good example of abuse, because the agribusiness park "is not an extensive community benefit" and gambles public money.


Even that bunged up Libertarian has a good sounding case.

By refusing to enter into a dialogue about the interpretation of ‘public use’, it encourages private developers to get cockier, and they have no problem lobbying legislators into reinterpreting the word blight:

Boynton Beach is among coastal Florida communities that are using eminent domain powers to acquire real estate and transfer it to private developers to build luxury condominiums and shopping areas in choice waterfront locations, according to Steven Anderson, director of the Castle Coalition. The coalition, named for the libertarian motto “A man's home is his castle,” is an advocacy group associated with the Institute for Justice, the Washington, D.C.-based organization that has been representing the Fort Trumbull plaintiffs in the New London case.

The coalition has produced a report documenting 10,000 instances of such “private to private” real estate transfers employing eminnent domain in 41 states between 1998 and 2002. Many of them are in coastal Florida, where communities are seeking to displace lower valued real estate with luxury developments to enhance their property-tax lists, Anderson said. In addition to Florida, California and New Jersey stand out for the volume of such cases.

Florida made the process even easier with new legislation that liberalizes the interpretation of blight, one of the conditions that enables municipalities to take property by eminent domain. Blight was the justification when New London used eminent domain to clear areas in the Winthrop and Shaw's Cove areas of the city in the 1960s. The Fort Trumbull case revolves around another constitutionally allowable purpose, of condemning property for public purposes. The Institute argues that securing land for private developers doesn't qualify as a legitimate public purpose.


Dems are getting slaughtered on this ruling. It is being spun as a defeat for the little guy, and the arguments against meddlling with ‘public use’ are ringing hollow among moderates, and frankly, the poor.

Even George {{gag}} Will {{choke}} sounds sensical on this argument, how bad is that?

Answer: Really f’n bad.

How did George Walker Bush make his ‘fortune’? eminent domain.

This a goddam train wreck.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. huge reply - no time to digest all of it
But I think that the courts were not ruling on the merits of the specific use of ED here - that is a matter for a different appeal - they were ruling on the broader authority to use ED. Like I said, our enemies chose this case deliberately, heck they may very well have been behind both sides. They chose it in order to try to sabotage ED entirely.

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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Onlooker
I'm definitely not a freeper. Do a search for my posts.

Do you have a link you can send me that would help me understand this ruling better?

Perhaps an article that makes your case.

Thank you...
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. this is really wrongheaded

I suggest a rigorous examination of your assumptions and paranoia. Give that internalized Rightist dogma- that local government is radically corrupt and working against you- another good look.

Kelo has been pretty amazing, like gun 'rights', at flushing out people's deeply internalized irresponsibility and anxieties/paranoia and fetishism.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. This was forwarded to me,
by a cousin who hates Bush, but has a husband who's a vet, so she gets a lot of this stuff from some of the other groups she is friendly with. We have to sift through it. I took her at face value this time. Excuse me for not reading further.

The poster above kindly put me straight on the way things are truly happening, but there is no "internalized Rightist dogma" at work here.

I don't distrust local governments any more or any less than I trust federal ones. And FWIW I don't like being called paranoid.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Lexingtonian
Please send me a link or two to set me straight.

No more ad hominems, ok? If I made a mistake, I'll own up to it.
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here's a good anti-eminent domain activism link:
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