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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 05:26 PM
Original message
Democrats Need Ohio to Win

http://www.kucinich.net/statements.htm#DemsOhio

"Ohio is the mother of presidents and the state which chooses presidents. The last member of the United States House of Representatives elected to the White House, James Garfield, also came from Cuyahoga County and won an upset victory at his party's convention, just as I intend to do in this nominating process. Ohio is bound to play a critical role at the Democratic Convention.

"Ohio has felt the brunt of the Bush Administration's economic policies. More than 369,500 Ohioans are out of work, and our nation is averaging a loss of 68,000 jobs a month. The nation has lost nearly 3 million manufacturing jobs since this President took office. Many of the lost manufacturing jobs have been due directly to trade agreements which have been unfair to American workers. I intend to cancel NAFTA and the WTO.

"I will cancel the tax cuts to those in the top brackets. Under the latest tax cuts, the first 60 percent of Ohio taxpayers will only see a cut of $380 in total over the next four years. But the richest 1 percent of Ohioans will be rewarded with tax cuts worth $52,240 on average over the next four years.

"I intend to make the health of Ohioans and Americans my number one domestic concern, and that is why I'm co-sponsoring legislation to create universal health coverage.

"Finally, my candidacy will give Ohioans an opportunity to vote to end the war in Iraq, to bring in UN peacekeepers, and to bring home our troops. I have had a plan on my website for nearly three months at www.kucinich.us which describes how this can be accomplished. The Democrats cannot win the election unless the nominee of the party is clearly committed to an immediate withdrawal from Iraq with the help of UN peacekeepers.

"The Democrats will not win the White House without Ohio's 20 electoral votes. I'm in the best position to win those votes based on the fact that I defeated Republican incumbents in races for Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio State Senator, and Member of the United States Congress. I've shown a strong vote-getting ability in Republican areas where other Democrats have been soundly defeated. I can win Ohio for the Democrats, and because I can win Ohio for the Democrats, I can win the White House."
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have no doubt in my mind
that Ohio will be one of the most important states out there. In fact, I think it is the number 1 state that we must win.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes -- let's reclaim Ohio --
-- from the Republicans. Not because we should have it out of spite, but because our platform will better represent the many out-of-work Ohioans. Go Democrats!
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jfxgillis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Disagree slightly
We don't NEED Ohio to win as much as Bush NEEDS Ohio to win.

I don't see how Bush can put a successful map together w/o Ohio. The Democrats can just squeeze one out.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean that OHIO isn't critical. I'd make it my top takeaway target.
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You read my mind.
We should fake a campaign in the South to drive the GOP into diverting time and resources there.

Then, we should pour everything we have into:

1) The Gore states (HI/CA/OR/WA/NM/IA/MN/WI/MN/PA/MI/MD/DE/RI/CT/MA/NY/DC/ME/VT)

That's 24 states and DC. We can probably winnow the Gore states into an "endangered" list: OR/NM/IA/MN/PA/MI

And then we focus on: OH/NV/WV/AZ

So, we focus on these ten states: OR/NM/IA/MN/PA/MI/OH/NV/WV/AZ.

Many groups outside of the party will be helping with the GOTV operations in these states (and a few more). By spending 90% of our time and money in those 10 states, our chances jump, I think..
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. you forgot WI in the endangered list
that was one of the closest states of 2000.
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm wondering..
if the Greens will come aboard for Feingold's re-election campaign this year (they did quite well there in 2000, IIRC). And I also don't know - has the GOP produced a strong challenger to Feingold this year?
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. not really
Edited on Sun Jan-04-04 04:24 PM by ButterflyBlood
Tommy Thompson and Mark Green have both turned down runs, so he looks fairly safe.

Nader got 3.62% in 2000, but even adding that in the margin of victory is less than 4%. I think Wisconsin is our most endangered state, although polls awhile ago showed Bush losing to an unnamed Democrat, so we should be able to pull it off.
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TakebackAmerica Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kucinich and Clark.....
are the only candidates who could win in Ohio.

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. We Need Ohio Because The Repubs Own the South
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I live in a Cleveland suburb and Kucinich couldn't win here...
Remember, the Cleveland Power and Light issue only helped the poor and disenfranchised, and most of them 1) don't vote and 2) don't remember Kucinich. He's seen by most of the people I know here as liberal to the point of being some fictional character. I know very few people who take him seriously (actually, none).

Clark might have a good chance here.

I think that all the Dems have to do is nominate a candidate that's not WAY left. With enough exposure, Ohio could come around.
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AnAmerican Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Hate to disagree but.......
"I know very few people who take him seriously (actually, none)."

You obviously don't know alot of people. I have many friends and associates who are solidly behind Dennis. And as far as the Muny Light issuer helping only the poor and disenfranchised? Nonsense. Dennis' courage and fortitude helped every resident of the City of Cleveland, regardless of that person's financial status.

I grew up here and still live in a suburb, Dennis is very well respected in the Greater Cleveland area and has substantial support in Columbus and Cincinnati as well.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Ah! You're right down the road from me!
I DID say "I know" and I really don't know any Kucinich supporters, despite discussing politics with quite a few people. It's not a character judgement...I happen to really appreciate a lot of things about Kucinich. I just feel that he's too far left for ME to be comfortable.

BTW, since you ARE so close, lemme know if you'd like to grab a beer and discuss it sometime. We may not back the same candidate right now, but we're both part of the same process.
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AnAmerican Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Sounds good to me
We ARE both involved in the process. The process itself is of major importance. I think we all can agree that getting involved (no matter who your candidate is) is more meaningful than just complaining and moaning about the way the country is going.
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Josh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Poll: Bush 61, Kucinich 32 in Ohio (Kucinich last of 5 polled vs. Bush)
Admittedly, the last time it was updated was November 10, but still, it paints a picture. Ohio is needed, but I sincerely doubt Kucinich can carry it.

Bush 55% Lieberman 40% Other 2% Dont' Know 2%
Bush 57% Dean 38% Other 2% Dont' Know 2%
Bush 57% Kerry 38% Other 2% Dont' Know 2%
Bush 55% Gephardt 41% Other 2% Dont' Know 1%
Bush 61% Kucinich 32% Other 5% Dont' Know 2%

http://www.dcpoliticalreport.com/CurrentPolls.htm

(Couldn't get the exact link due to frames. Just go to Ohio and click on Current Polls.)
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Gretchen Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. that is only 6% less than Dean
keep in mind that Dennis's campaign had gained a lot of momentum in the last six weeks
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netrally Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Kucinich has the right policies but...
Sadly, that's not enough in our tabloid-obsessed culture. We want someone goodlooking and charming to be our president. I'm afraid he doesn't have these qualities. If Dean were saying the same things Kucinich was saying, he'd be doing just as well as he is now. It's less a matter of substance, and more a matter of style.
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9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Thanks for the insightful, detailed, fact-based analysis.
I had thought Dean could win Ohio, but I stand corrected. Thanks.

End sarcasm here.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. not at all
Gephardt would be the best candidate for taking Ohio. In fact he would practically have it in the bag but he doesn't have much chance of getting the nomination.

I doubt Kucinich could win a statewide race. I know a lot are still pissed at him over the "bankrupting Cleveland" and Great Lakes fires things, and the downstate folks see him as nutty.

Dean would have a chance, but I think his pro-free trading stances will hurt him a lot.
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AnAmerican Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Read your history.
The Cuyahoga river fires took place in the 1950's and 1960's. Dennis was not even a member of City Council during that time frame.

As far as downstate folks regarding him as nutty. Nonsense. He has good support in Cincinnati as well as Columbus.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. "his pro-free trading stances will hurt him a lot"
funny, Dennis being from Ohio and all, and also wanting to repeal nafta and the WTO
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. A suggestion for whomever our nominee is..
Our nominee will be known by March probably.

I'd suggest that the nominee pretty much camp-out in five states: Michigan, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, West Virginia, and Ohio.

Become a regular there. Travel from small town to small town, and just talk to the people there. Listen to their concerns. Learn about local issues that people are worried about. Get to know in-depth the situation of factory closings and college tuition hikes.

Camp-out in these states. With Ohio in our column, all we need are the Gore states. With the economy still sucking hard, it looks very do-able.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well, of course
I'm hoping Dennis will be the candidate. But whoever we run, I believe he will be there campaigning for that person.
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Gretchen Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. historically speaking, he HAS to carry Ohio
no candidate of either party has won the White House in over 100 years without carrying Ohio
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Ohio is Must-Win for the GOP, not so much the Democrats
Democrats have won the white house without Ohio.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. While I enjoy listening to Al,
and respect what he has to say, portraying Dennis Kucinich as "bush lite" is ludicrous. Dennis has my support all the way. He represents the strongest contrast to Bush, IMO. If I were looking for a different candidate that also offers strong contrast to Bush, I'd go with CMB. She's today's second choice for me.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Nothern Ohio is industrial, and Kucinich country(nt)
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. Gephardt would carry Ohio easily.
Gephardt has Kucinich's populist message that resonates in the rust belt states. Gephardt's traditional image would win a piece of the conservative voters in the southern part of the state.

I'm not a fan of Geppy, but this is one of his stronger points.
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Todd Smyth Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. Great Guy - No Chance
He has no support in any poll, the least money, no endorsements, no chance at all. Please do not divide the party for Bush. Don't let Karl Rove pick who he wants Bush to run against.

Look for who they don't want to run against. When you see every dog catcher and his brother on Fox News, bad mouthing Howard Dean, it really shouldn't be so hard to figure out who they don't want to run against.
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