Dean urges a different direction from Clinton - USA Today

[Wonk]

By Susan Page, USA TODAY
Posted 1/14/2004 11:57 PM

DES MOINES — The battle among Democrats that begins with the Iowa caucuses on Monday will determine more than the identity of the party's presidential nominee. Also at stake are the identity of the party and the legacy of the last Democrat to win the White House.

"Bill Clinton was a master politician ... but that was a different time," former Vermont governor Howard Dean told supporters gathered at an Indianola, Iowa, winery the other day. Republican leaders have become more conservative, he said, and Clinton's philosophy of governing from the middle is no longer the right thing to do. "I think this is a time to fight," Dean said.

(snip)

The battle for the Democratic nomination has revived a debate over the direction of the party that Clinton's camp thought his two terms in the White House had settled. Fueled by antipathy to President Bush, liberals who bristled at Clinton's "new Democrat" approach now see an opportunity to reshape the party with a harder edge. Even Clinton's vice president, Al Gore, has embraced Dean.

(snip)

The current debate could make it harder for the party to unite once a nominee is chosen — or even to agree on what it means, precisely, to be a Democrat.

more...

[Maddy McCall]

1. Oh how I long for the Clinton years

More from the article:

For his more moderate rivals, Dean's combativeness raises the specter of the landslide losses the party suffered in 1972 and 1984.

"I have no idea" why Democrats would move away from Clinton's approach to the economy and other issues, retired general Wesley Clark said in an interview. "They work."


****************

Clinton's approach landed the Dems in the White House for eight years--eight years of prosperity. Oh how I would love to return to the way things were five or six years ago. Glad to see Clark is wise enough to give Clinton praise where praise is due.

[w4rma]

10. NAFTA, free trade, deregulation, WTO, merger-mania should continue?

What Dean is saying, IMHO, is that these trends MUST be reversed for the good of our country.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

30. Dean is for the same things plus is MORE conservative than Clinton.

Areas where Dean is more conservative than Clinton:

Medical marijuana, anti-affirmative action, death penalty, Kyoto Treaty, pro-development, gun control, cuts to mentally ill, spotty on the environment, fiscal conservative, harsh on drugs, NAFTA, civil liberties, anti-protestors, anti-methedone clinics, cuts in medicare/social security, excessive tax-cutter, cut programs, pro-prosecution, pro-prison, anti-criminal defense, anti-due process, pro-corporation, friend of energy companies, Enron, Halliburton, for embargo against Cuba, pro-AIPAC, increase defense spending, anti-campaign finance, poor record on education, not for universal health care, not good on Indian affairs, not good on diversity, pro-states rights.

[cprise]

14. Yep, the privatization and rape of the 3rd world "works"

De-regulating industries, including the MEDIA. Corporations have achieved a political lock-out of the general population. They can brainwash and monopolize and hoodwink us into war at will now.

Welfare reform: Who believes in the fictitious Welfare Queen epidemic?
Clinton does.

Slipped us a Mickey with NAFTA: "Er, yeah, it's just like the EU: Freedom, rights and all that"
Yeah sure, but for corporations only!

The "Defense Of Marriage Act": A nice precendent for ammending the U.S. Constitution to exclude gays

A phony song and dance over universal healthcare while the above occurred.

Did NOT fight back or question the press or Congress when they tilted issues to the Right. Clinton didn't care; too busy posing as patron saint of adulturous slobs.


I'm not saying he is a neocon; He is a DLC NEOLIBERAL. Now just ask the British what neoliberals are doing to their country and the rest of the world. They're not even peaceful... not after a country switches its currency reserves and oil pricing to Euros.

[Cheswick2.0]

27. that is the problem, in retrospect they did not work

yes we were better off under Clinton, however the things that did not work, such as nafta need to be changed so they can work better. If Clark is nothing but a clone of Clinton we are in deep trouble with a Clark presidency.

[sally343434]

2. Only the corporate media is having a problem with this

> The current debate could make it harder for the party to unite
> once a nominee is chosen — or even to agree on what it means,
> precisely, to be a Democrat.

I think what this story illustrates is that it is the corporate media that is having a difficult time understanding (or dealing with) "what it means, precisely, to be a Democrat."

[windansea]

3. jeez....Dean is quick with a shovel

deeper and deeper he goes

time to land the book contract

[jmaier]

4. Gov Dean's point

is an interesting one but I'm not seeing it reflected in national polls or my day to day experience interacting with people. The way I'm reading it is that about 25% are strong left and 25% are strong right but most folks lie somewhere centrist or just left or just right.

Granted the congressional democrats were thoroughly bushwhacked and they need to hold their ground but their ground isn't inherently left, left wing. Many democrats are angry at * and company but it doesn't translate that all angry democrats want to move hard left, they just want Bush out.

I'm afraid that for an electoral majority you do need to hold onto the left wing but the larger 'base' are more reflected by perhaps a Kerry/Edwards perspective than a Kucinich one. Gov Dean, as VT governor is probably closer to an electoral perspective than Dean the campaigner.

I agree with Wesley Clark's quote from the same article:

"I have no idea" why Democrats would move away from Clinton's approach to the economy and other issues, retired general Wesley Clark said in an interview. "They work."

[loyalsister]

19. He's not talking about "most people"

Dean is talking about the Right wing philosophy of politics in this country to which a very small minority of people subscribe.
What is happening as our dems have compromised, and people continue to propose compromise with them we wind up pretty far from what many of us believe in. Gep, for example might have been anti-Nafta but he voted for Bushes PBA (no health exception). Went against a moderate Dem then lined up with the radical religious right? We all have dozens of citations for sellout votes on taxcuts, corporate welfare, etc. There is still SOME distinction left, but how far right do we let them trade their dem\Republican loyalty before we realize the other side doesn't play that way?

[Bread and Circus]

20. Hey but why win when we can marginalize ourselves to garner primary votes?

[9119495]

26. I think he is saying Reps have pulled the middle to the right

and that governing from there sacrifices too much. Dean would argue, its time to pull new voters in and make our 25% larger, and to convince the middle that things like schools, health care, and taxes okay.

[David Dunham]

5. Dean's Comments Could Lead "Big DOG" to Endorse Clark

If Dean continues making statements like these, Bill Clinton may join those Democrats making endorsements and come out for General Clark, whom Clinton appears to be supporting behind the scenes. Clinton's endorsement and campaigning for Clark would make Gore's and Harkin's endorsements of very little value.

[pasadenaboy]

7. Clinton is a former president

so won't endorse anyone in the primaries. Its unprecedented and really bad form.

[tameszu]

8. You mean like immediately past Veeps endorsing?

Yes, a Clinton endorsement would result in a big, honkin' ugly mess. But Gore's endorsement openned the door to it...

[JohnKleeb]

6. republican leaders were conservative in Clinton's day

I dont know what Dean is talking about. I could have swore that Dean said he would govern the US like he did vermont which was and is from the middle.

[Melodybe]

9. Sometimes Lieberman just needs to STFU

"Can a Democrat get elected who abandons the Clinton transformation of the Democratic Party?" Lieberman said in an interview. "I worry that the answer to that is 'no.' "

Coming from the Democrat that was the first to denounce Clinton because of the ML scandle and considering he voted to IMPEACH Bill Clinton I could care less what he has to say.

[sandnsea]

11. No he didn't

Where did you get the idea he voted to impeach Clinton???

[Kahuna]

18. I agree with Lieberman and apparently others do too.

nt

[9119495]

31. I think Delay, Lott, Cheney, Bush, and Rove are WORSE than those guys.

The pictures above show guys that were often viewed as crackpots. The media gave them far less voice than the ones I noted. Dean is right--even if you hate him you should still be able to see there are more of these right-wing freaks than before--and together they are louder.

[corporatewhore]

12. While i agree with what dean is saying .....

I fear that dean would be the same kind of DLC dem considering his record

[w4rma]

13. Don't vote on fear, it will help to paralyse you, IMHO. (n/t)

[FrenchieCat]

15. Yep...

Vote for a leader instead...someone that will the the President of all of the people!

[w4rma]

16. Absolutely. I fully agree. IMHO, Dean is that man. ;-) (n/t)

[Bread and Circus]

21. Well, sure but isn't Dean about as DLC as the rest? I mean an NRA...

A rating?

I just wish Dean's rhetoric matched his record. Then I
would know what I am voting on.

[Cheswick2.0]

28. What does NRA rating have to do with DLC?

come on, you are reaching. The problem with the DLC is not their stance on gun control. Their sin is their right wing economic and military policies and their view that they can bully the whole party into agreeing with them.

[Kahuna]

17. Uh Oh.... Dean has thrown down the guantlet to Bill C.

He will soon wish he hadn't done that. tsk tsk.

[maddezmom]

25. no fooling

don't know why he has to name him. :(

[cindyw]

22. How can he say this and make his stupid argument argument that

we should go back to the exact Clinton tax plan right away.

[Maddy McCall]

23. He's full of contradictions

what he says and what he says
and
what he says and what he does
and
what he says and what he has done
are not one in the same.

[adadem]

24. That's for sure n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

29. There is no contradiction

much as you would like to pretend there is. He didn't say everything Clinton did was wrong.

[imhotep]

32. he is correct

the only thing Clinton ever fought for was his own career.
It is time to fight for progress.