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Wesley Clark:more experience, more liberal, and more legislation then Dean

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Tweed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 01:49 AM
Original message
Wesley Clark:more experience, more liberal, and more legislation then Dean
I write this to you as a former Dean supporter. I commend Dean's willingness to speak out against the war and his previous service to that state of Vermont. He is a fine Democrat, and these things are what first got me on the Dean train. I hadn't read all that much though until the primaries were a month and a half away and the race started to heat up. The more and more I read about Dean, I became more and more unsure of him.
He wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts and stop there. While I think the Bush tax cuts were a bad idea, they happened and we have to deal with them. Under Howard Dean's tax plan, taxes would be raised on the middle class. The middle class is the most consumer driven class and if their taxes are raised, their pocket books will tighten up and the economy will begin to slip back down. I like Clark's tax plan which reverses the effect of the Bush tax cut by adding a 5% tax increase on people's money when they begin to make more then $1 million dollars in a year. With that change, middle and lower class families will be able to acquire an additional tax cut (to look at a summary of the tax cut, check out: http://clark04.com/issues/familiesfirst/summary/). Not only does Clark's plan make more sense for America, but no nominee has ever won the presidency by declaring tax cuts on the middle class.
The most important issues in this upcoming election are going to be national defense and foreign policy. The only Democratic candidate that trumps George Bush on these issues is General Wesley Clark. Clark's experience has brought him in contact with today's most prominent military and political leaders. He has spent his life studying international politics. Howard Dean has no experience on either issue. As for the argument that Dean can select a national defense or foreign policy Vice-president, why not pick the candidate who is strongest on the issues first and not limit your Vice President to a couple of people who will fill your most glaring mistakes.
Both of the candidates want to work with NATO and the United Nations so that more world assistance can be used in rebuilding Iraq and so that more of our soldiers can come home. However, if Dean is elected, he will not know the best ways to deal with either organization. Having not been to the international negotiation table before and being overly eager to pay in full on his promise to international help, I fear that Howard Dean would not be able to work out the best deal possible. NATO could easily shortchange us and end up having most Americans staying in Iraq and the only change that would occur would be a switch of a helmet. Wesley Clark has even worked for one of these organizations as Supreme Commander. He knows NATO inside and out and has working relationships with its leaders. Clark would know exactly what terms to use and whether or not talks were going well based on reactions of people whose personalities he already is well aware of. Not only would he work out the best plan for the nation building in Iraq, he would know the best way to approach old colleagues of his.
While I commend Howard Dean for his vocal opposition to an unjustified war, the war part is over. We need to concentrate on the nation building and peace. Wesley Clark can best lead our country out of Iraq and back into the favor of the international world.

Is Howard Dean the liberal he is believed to be?

Another reason why I switched from Dean to Clark is because I want the Democratic candidate to hold true to its liberal policies and principles. A recent article highlights my frustration with Dean's rather conservative views: http://slate.msn.com/id/2084735. Feel free to read the entire article, but here are the most revealing couple of paragraphs:

"Most of what Dean said on Meet the Press Sunday morning could have been written by the Democratic Leadership Council. He accused Bush of forcing tax hikes and spending too much. He indicated that he'd limit the rate of spending growth and might raise the retirement age. He deferred to states and churches on gun control and gay marriage. At one point, host Tim Russert rapped Dean for calling Dick Gephardt's expensive health care proposal "pie in the sky." Some big spender. Dean's defense of the death penalty in extreme cases was even more eyebrow-raising:

The problem with life without parole is that people get out for reasons that have nothing to do with justice. We had a case where a guy who was a rapist, a serial sex offender, was convicted, then was let out on what I would think and believe was a technicality, a new trial was ordered, and the victim wouldn't come back and go through the second trial. And so the guy basically got time served. … So life without parole doesn't work either.

Executing killers because they might get out on a "technicality"? That isn't just pro-death penalty. It's anti-due-process."

I'm against the death penalty in all forms and I'm not sure what I think about his perfect grading of A+ from the NRA either. Is Dean saying that on the death penalty to try and attract more independent and conservative voters? The media and the general public already view Dean as being too liberal. Dean is actually a moderate candidate who is adopting conservative proposals. This liberal viewing his on another big issue that gets my concern:

Which administration would pass more liberal legislation, Dean or Clark?

Let's say Howard Dean wins the general election. He has made very damning comments about Republicans. While I support his comments myself, as presidential candidate, highly partisan statements do not make any friends. It will be VERY difficult for Dean to work with Republicans in congress. As leader of the party, Dean is going to have to make a great deal of compromises because Republicans will not want to work with him as much. This will be especially true with Dean being the head of the ticket in the South and 5 Democratic senators up for reelection. I don't care how much you like Howard Dean, you have to admit he doesn't have much appeal in the South. It will be even harder for him to pass bills and laws he wants with a Republican held house. When running against Bush, Dean will have no ground to move more liberal on his policies because he is already seen by most people as 'too liberal'.

Wesley Clark on the other hand will have an easier time working with congress. First, Clark has more appeal to people in the South and his name will help the Democratic senators to be reelected more so then having Howard Dean's name up there. Granted, Wesley Clark could be forced to work with a Republican house and senate as well, he will have more Democratic votes to work with. The fact that Clark voted Republican sometimes in the past will make the congress Republicans more willing to bargain with him. In the end, not only will Clark be able to pass his legislation more often, it won't have as many compromises as Dean's. Not to mention the fact that in the general election, Clark will have more room to move liberal because of how the public sees him. in conclusion, while some people might think that Dean is more liberal to the Democratic ideas, Clark will be more likely to get legislation passed first and without compromises second.

Finally, if all of these experience, policy, and legislation items don't grab your attention, I bring up the issue of the ability to win the election. I refer to another article that argues the case better then I could at this point: http://thedolphin.typepad.com/dolphin/2003/11/are_dean_democr_1.html

Again, feel free to read the whole article, but here are the highlights:

"The Dems Got the Blues. They Got 'Em Bad. And That Ain't Good!
Meanwhile, the U.S. electoral map doesn't look promising if Howard Dean is the Democratic nominee. After the 2000 census, electoral votes were reapportioned, with some states gaining electors and some states losing electors. Unfortunately for the Democrats, almost all of the gains were in the “red states” won by Bush in 2000, while almost all of the losses were in “blue states” won by Gore. All told, the “blue states” lost seven electoral votes due to the 2000 census, while the “red states” gained seven. Now, suppose that Bush wins only the “red states” in 2004, which is a highly conservative scenario if Howard Dean is the nominee. Back in 2000, Bush won the election with just 271 electoral votes, one more than the required 270 electoral votes. This time around, however, those same states would result in 278 electoral votes for Bush, and an 18 electoral vote victory.

Unfortunately, the situation is likely far worse than that, because Howard Dean – or any Democratic candidate, really -- would be hard pressed even to hold the “blue states.” In 2000, Gore won New Mexico by just 366 votes, Iowa by a mere 4,100 votes, Wisconsin by 5,400 votes, Oregon by just over around 6,500 votes, and Minnesota by 58,000 votes out of nearly 2.5 million cast. Even Pennsylvania was relatively close, with Gore beating Bush by only 4 points, 51%-47%. Meanwhile, Bush was winning nearly all of his “red states” by huge margins -- 15%, 30%, even 40% in a few cases. What this means is that Bush will have the luxury in 2004 of concentrating his time and huge war chest on just a few battleground states, effectively expending no resources whatsoever on vast swaths of “Red America.” "

I think the most important part of that article is that Gore won his states by a close margin while Bush won his states by large amounts. Bush won't have to campaign in the South at all if Dean is the choice. Instead Bush can concentrate the majority of his funds in those states Gore won by so little and California. Face it, if we lose California and the South, the Democratic nominee will lose no matter who is. If Clark was the candidate, he would keep Bush honest across the country with no lead being safe in many states, including the South. I feel that General Wesley Clark is the best candidate overall and the candidate that will force Bush to spread his resources out across the country instead of the battle ground states. With Wesley Clark, nearly all states will be battle ground states up for grabs.
If you are more interested in Wesley Clark's campaign, please check him out at www.clark04.com. Thank you for your time.

Matthew Tweed Thornton
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. And, yet,
Its hard to take Clark opponents who have only posted 6 or 7 hundred times seriously but let's be polite.

Clark is viewed as strong on defense because he's strong on defense, not because he is not your image of what a Democrat should be. Has he registered as a Democrat in Arkansas? Well, yes he has. So who are you to decide that he isn't worthy? Your options are to vote for him or not, not to decide whether he can be a member of this party or not.

You don't like his positions, his personality or his choice in sweaters, fine. Exercise your option.

However, if you seriously think that Wes Clark would not be better for this nation than George Bush you are seriously out of touch with reality.

If he is nominated and you decide to move elsewhere, well, that's an option too. It's a free country, at least until Bush's second term.
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Tweed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Did you actually read my post?
It seems like you just read the headline and the first part about Clark having more experience. You really should check out the 'more liberal' and 'more liberal legislation' parts too. I'm supporting Clark because he is more liberal then Dean. I don't understand how that makes him a Republican and I also don't understand how that makes you think that Clark supporters realize that Democrats don't suck as bad as I thought.

As for the claim that Clark is strong on defense... do you use logic in your posts? Clark is strong on defense because he was a four-star general. It has nothing to do with Reagan. Maybe you could expand on your point a little more?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Unlike the person who just attacked you, YES, i did read your post...
Edited on Thu Jan-15-04 02:27 AM by jchild
That attack was not fair, and your post shows that people who switch camps do a great deal of thinking and considering where candidates stand on issues before doing so. After reading your post, I would never question your sincerity and agree with you on most of what you said.

Everything you said in your post indicates one thing about Clark: he has foresight. He is managing his campaign with consideration that he WILL have to work with Republicans in the future.

It shows that a person can be liberal and still behave kindly toward the opposition, and this will bide him well when he is the President.

I also agree that it is more important that we elect a president with foreign policy experience rather than *hope* he appoints the right person. The right person is Clark.

Thank you for such a thoughtful post. :hi: and Welcome to DU!

Edited: grammar
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Uh, no, Clark is viewed as strong on defense because he's a 4-Star General
and former Supreme Commander of NATO, or didn't you know that?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. Clark isn't a liberal
He supports the death penalty, opposes decriminalization of marijuana, doesn't see a problem with more nuclear energy, "hasn't made up his mind" on partial birth abortion AND said that he doesn't think the government should open the doors of the military to gays, that the military has to "talk about" it first.

http://www.policy.com/Drugs.htm
http://www.policy.com/Crime.htm
http://www.policy.com/Abortion.htm
http://www.policy.com/2004/Wesley_Clark_Homeland_Security.htm
http://www.policy.com/Energy_+_Oil.htm


Then, if you consider that he supports the School of the Americas and has heavy ties with the military industry and not very long ago was a lobbyist for one such company it makes Clark a totally unacceptable candidate.

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. your information seems a bit incomplete
visit his website and see what's posted there

www.clark04.com

you'll get a more complete picture of the General's positions
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Tweed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Thank You
Edited on Thu Jan-15-04 03:46 AM by Tweedtheatre
This is the kind of debate we need to get going. Instead of attacks on candidates, we need to talk about the issues.

I am not sure that Wesley Clark supports the death penalty system though. I could not find any information regarding his stance on the issue and I assumed that he was against the death penalty because he said on Hardball with Chris Matthews that if Saddam or Bin Laden were found alive, he wanted them to be tried in front of the Hage as opposed to tried here for the death penalty. You are putting some spin on Clark's policies and overlooking what Howard Dean has to say on these issues as well.

1. Death Penalty: Clark says that the state should have the right to use the death penalty, but he attacks the current system in America. http://www.policy.com/2004/Wesley_Clark_Crime.htm
Clark goes on to talk about how more minorities are issued the death penalty then non-minorities. I feel that Clark would not push the death penalty either way then. Also, I think Dean and Clark match up quite well to your death penalty dislikes. Did you read the comments that Dean made about the death penalty?

2. Drugs: I'm not so sure myself if marijuana should be legal. I agree with Clark on this statement. I don't know if 100% of liberals would agree on this issue to boot. I wouldn't say that if you don't support the legalization of marijuana, you aren't liberal. Also, Dean isn't for the legalization of marijuana outright. http://www.policy.com/2004/Howard_Dean_Drugs.htm Dean says that the FDA would have to evaluate marijuana to see if it works as good medicine. If it doesn't, Dean says he vote try and pass it.

3. Energy: You are reaching a little bit on this one. Clark did say: "I am not one of those people who will rule out nuclear energy as a contributor to dealing with the energy problem." However, he goes on, "We've just got lots of things we need to do on energy conservation and energy generation, and especially renewable energy resources. The means are out there now to take a much greater percentage of our energy needs from the sun, from solar, and from wind, and even from wave action. And I would hope that we would move ahead in those areas much more rapidly than we have been." He doesn't rule out Nuclear energy, but he wants a major increase in conservation energy. That sounds pretty liberal to me. The other thing that impresses me about Clark when it comes to energy and the environment is that Clark has received the endorsements of many Native American tribes (including one from Vermont) and the founder of Earth Day.
Howard Dean does take a tougher stance on nuclear energy and says, "We can not build any new nuclear power plants until we have a satisfactory way of disposing of the waste." http://www.policy.com/2004/Howard_Dean_Energy_+_Oil.htm That's not ruling it out forever though. If we have a breakthrough in storage, Howard Dean will support it too.

4. Abortion: Clark needs to make up his mind, but seriously, abortion is such a small issue in the campaign. How many times is abortion actually going to come up when Clark is president?

5. Gays in the military: Here is what Clark has said: "I believe the military needs to rethink the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. I would ask the military to implement a policy that ensures that everyone who wants to serve their country is permitted to do so with dignity." Please tell me how Clark is against gays in the military again?

6. Your last comment: Clark's defense on the School of Americas is that if a couple of serial killers come from Harvard, you don't try to shut Harvard down. Also, if Dean doesn't have a Democratic Congress, there is nothing he can do about shutting down the School. Clinton and Carter did nothing to shut it down. What would be the steps involved to getting rid of the School of Americas? I would like to know. As for Clark's ties to the military industry, he was in the military for his career, the connection just clicked I guess. I'm not happy that Clark did that work, but if this is one of his few shortcomings, I'll deal with it over Dean's many shortcomings.

Please get back to me.



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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. "Abortion: Clark needs to make up his mind, but seriously"
First, welcome to the Clark campaign.

Clark's mind is entirely made up on abortion. He is outright pro-Choice. He has said so many, many, many times. He has had the courage to call the Republicans on late-term abortions, which they choose to call "partial birth." This is a medical procedure that traditionally was based on a call made by a woman and her family in concert with her physician. The question as historically asked by doctors was, "In extreme situations when it comes down to a choice of saving the life of the mother or the child, who would it be?" It was a decision made by families, not by legislators. The answer, pro-lifers decided and the right wing successfully lobbied, was the doctor must be forced to save the child, no matter what the parents wanted, no matter if the mother would be leaving five other motherless kids behind, no matter that it was a medical emergency and not a moral one, no matter that the child may have incredibly serious health issues of its own that makes survival problematic, no matter the emotional battering the entire family, including the "saved" child might endure.

Clark's position could not be more clear:

Reproductive freedom.

I'm pro-choice. The government has no business coming between a woman, her family, and her doctor in making such a personal, private decision. Every woman deserves complete information and access to birth control so that families can be planned and so that every child is a wanted child. I will oppose measures that interfere with the ability of woman and her doctors to make choices about her reproductive health. Clark 04


"Democrat Wesley Clark said yesterday he would never appoint a pro-life judge to the federal bench because the judge’s anti-abortion views would render him unable to follow the established judicial precedent of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision.

<snip>

"During the interview, Clark said, “It’s a hypothetical that is very unlikely to happen because” a judge who follows precedent “is not going to be the kind of person who is going to use his ideology. He’s not going to have an ideology to advance at the expense of the law.”

Regarding his own views on abortion, Clark said, “I’m not going to get into a discussion of when life begins. I’m in favor of choice, period. Pure and simple.

“I don’t think you should get the law involved in abortion,” he said. “It’s between a woman, her doctor, her faith and her family and her conscience. You don’t put the law in there.” Union Leader January 8, 2004









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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Look at Clark's quote lower on the page about gays in the military
He said the military shouldn't open it's door to gays, that they need to "talk about it" first. Unacceptable.

He basically wants to let the military decide what the policy is. His statements show he won't be a strong leader and will cede to the military. Not good.

Partial birth abortion is a procedure only used to save a mother's life and it's very rare. As a woman, I'm highly offended Clark doesn't feel that it's important enough to take a stand on.

The School of The Americas didn't just put out a couple of serial killers. And Harvard doesn't teach torture. Clark supports a school that teaches sickos like Milosovic how to be successful at the things they do. Yes, that's a big issue.

As for Dean, he was my governor and I know what his record is. It's damn impressive. Clark has NO Democratic political record for me to look at. I won't support anyone for president who doesn't have a record.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. He's not against gays in the military.
He wants to change the Don't ask, Don't tell policy. It's an unfair policy. He said last week that he liked the UK policy of..Don't ask, don't misbehave. He said it works better than Don't ask, Don't tell. HE IS NOT AGAINST GAYS IN THE MILITARY.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. Clark is the only candidate that can compete with Bush everywhere
Clark can go into an American Legion hall in West Virginia as well as to a Native American reservation in Oklahoma

He can bring back states into play for us that wouldn't be in play if Dean is the nominee

Clark can win. He has the experience in government. You don't rise to the ranks of NATO commander without being able to play the game and understand how it works. He has the leadership and he has the brains.

The more attacks I see against the General, the more that strengthens my resolve to do everything I can to help get him nominated and then elected.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. amen...
and Kudos to the New Clark supporter.
Welcome....you will love...it's going to be a hell of a ride all the way to the White House!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. I believe Kerry can compete better against Bush
As much as I like Clark, I feel Kerry's proven record of supporting and creating legislation for vets, the environment, civil rights, women's rights, small businesses and other issues and a stellar record with domestic, foreign policy and national security issues makes for a more complete candidate to run against Bush. Add that he is a decorated soldier and there is no equal to me in this race.

Kerry has over 30 years of experience and a solid proven record as a progressive Democrat that is tangible and real. This is much more powerful than any words, promises and proclamations that any other candidate can express.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. Has DU become an official Clark webiste?
Edited on Thu Jan-15-04 09:44 AM by edzontar
nt
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Become? This place has been and extention of the Clark blog for weeks.

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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Clark will make the election all about the military... security... war


and that's exactly where bush wants to run.


Clark is probably the worst guy we could nominate. Not only is he completely inexperienced in campaigns, he got endless things the republicans can attack, and he drives off the left end of our party.


I do not want to see the repuke ads featuring Clark heaping praise on Bush and saying how much we need Bush in the white house. That crap will be played 100 times a day and Clark will lose.

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Foswia Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. What left wing?
Edited on Thu Jan-15-04 05:13 PM by Foswia
We never had the left wing. The only ‘left wing’ our party has is the democratic faithful. They will vote democratic either way. Dean’s attempts to appeal to left may capture some support from ‘leftists’ we believe might vote, while Clark's third way campaign is capturing undecides that are certainly voting.

If bush wins the center and the right, we lose. America doesn't have enough 'leftists'. Dean can't win the center.

Your claim that Clark will make it about military is misleading. Listen to Clark sometime, he talks about the economy. He studied Econ at Oxford, he was a Rhodes scholar! Rhodes scholar are usually liberal. (The bbc had a story on this last month).

"Clark heaping praise on Bush", i hope they show that. Clark will appear to Americans as someone who, like a lot of Americans, has begun to have doubts about the direction the country is taking.
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. Clark has not signed ONE bill proving he's a Democrat
I don't mind someone being a lifelong Republican so long as they prove they've dropped conservative ideology by governing as a Democrat. But Clark hasn't signed one bill- not civil unions, not expanding health care, nothing. I refuse to believe on faith that he's "seen the light".
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Won't have to wait much longer!
Edited on Thu Jan-15-04 07:38 AM by theodoty
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks Matthew
Clearly I agree with you.
But I doubt I could articulate it as well as you.
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kayleybeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Welcome aboard Tweedtheatre
Great post! Thank you for taking the time to post such a thoughtful, reasoned explanation of your journey. So glad to have you among the ranks of Clark supporters at DU!

GO WES GO!!!
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Ivote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Another Welcome
and a great post. The more people learn about the General an what he wants to accomplish, the more they will grow to like him as we do.
He is a leader for the future.
Go WesIn his career as a commander in the Army, Clark attributes his success not just to his ability to fight the enemy, but his ability to fight for his people. "We're in the era of the all-volunteer Army," General Clark has said. "My soldiers were free to go, and I needed them to stay." That's why Wes Clark worked hard as a commander to take care of his soldiers and their families - advocating for better housing, better health care, and better schools for their children. "You can't build a strong Army just with great generals; you have to have great people at every rank. You have to give everyone a chance to be all you can be.' It's true for the United States Army, and it's true for the United States."

"I'm running to bring back the core ideals of our democracy - personal liberty, open debate, and opportunity for all. These ideals have made us great. They will make us greater. They will make us safer and more prosperous. Join me. We can have a new kind of patriotism in America. We can have a new kind of America."
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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
17. Thank you for a well-reasoned post
and welcome to DU :hi:
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
18. Didn't even get seven sentences into your post before I saw the first lie
"He wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts and stop there."

Wow. You were a Dean supporter? How could you be a Dean supporter and know so little about his campaign??

I guess it's true what I hear, people who know anything about Dean or his campaign STAY Dean supporters. It's not a campaign for flakiness.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
19. I think I've read something like this .....
Many times before.

There really is nothing new

It is just another standard recruiting thread, typical of the stuff posted here by Clark supporters..

Move on, nothing to see here.

Go Dean!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kerry, the proven Democratic leader
I just can't see any reason to choose the unknown over the known. Kerry would gain respect with voters anywhere and we know the kind of Democrat he is. He's been fighting for us for 30 years and I have no doubt he'd continue that fight and truly make this country a place to be proud of.

My biggest dread with Clark as our nominee: The Democratic Party is so pathetic they had to get a Republican to run.
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