A Sad Day For Women as Braun Exits

[ourwinter]

Elected in the year of the women in 1992 to office, and having served her country with distinction as ambassador to New Zealand, Braun's candidacy brought much to the current field Democratic candidates for President. It is unfortunate that Braun's candidacy for president never took off. Yet, what is truly an insult to women is not that former ambassador Mosley Braun is dropping out, it is that she did not drop out and gather the composure for at least 24 hours taking in her campaign, allowing the field to tip their hats.

The true insult to women in America is that she must leave her campaign and immediately endorse front runner Howard Dean; by doing so Braun has denied herself even the ability to concede defeat alone, she must share the limelight with Dean in her final hour, and all talk will be regarding her endorsement, as if her candidacy was merely an afterthought. To pull out of the race and immediately endorse the front-runner is not only disempowering, but of all things this final act, more than any singular event makes her candidacy appear whimsical. It is truly a low point for politics for women in the modern era.

[Caution]

1. Huh?

That was her personal choice to endorse Dean. Methinks you are reading too much into that. Personally I'm hoping Ms Braun is tagged as a VP candidate.

[ourwinter]

17. Me be

suprised that a DUer would ever make
such a comment...

I thought that's what we did here
read into things?

[Caution]

30. nope

reading into things means to find something that isnt really there. Here at DU we try to find the true interpretation. DU may be partisan, but the very nature of being liberal (YES LIBERAL, not PROGRESSIVE...say it with me I AM A LIBERAL and I am PROUD to be so), is to attemp tto find the truh in a given situation and to attempt to make things better for all. Ms. Braun saw that she wasn't going to win, she feels that Howard Dean has the best chance of the remaining candidates of representing the Democratic party and it's members in the upcoming election so she wasted no time in saying to her supporters that she feels they should support Dean and I applaud her decision to do what she feels is right (regardless of whether or not I agree with her choice).

[maxanne]

31. here here Caution

thank you for respecting a woman's right to choose!!

[ourwinter]

38. I love it how this

has turned into a
"right to choose" argument

when nothing I have suggested
seeks to stifle her voice,
only amplify her voice by letting
time sink in and her to endorse
12 hours later.

Instead it is viewed as a package
deal, get one candidate to drop
get her to endorse on the same
day.

[maxanne]

43. are you or are you not

suggesting she stifle her voice for 12 hours?

She made her choice, and you are certainly questioning her right to make that choice. It comes down to the same thing I've been saying, men thinking they can make better choices for women, than they can make themselves.

[ourwinter]

45. You can't

be serious...

[w4rma]

73. It looks to me that you are saying exactly that she stifle her opinion.

...
what is truly an insult to women is not that former ambassador Mosley Braun is dropping out, it is that she did not drop out and gather the composure for at least 24 hours taking in her campaign, allowing the field to tip their hats.
...

[ourwinter]

46. Fuzzy Logic

Do you believe that there
would be ZERO difference
if she would have chosen to
let this day be hers completely
hers?

Rather than having endorsed in
the same day?

I find it beyond bizzare that you
accuse me of stifling, or suggesting
to stifle, when merely what I am suggesting
is that she would have had the ability to
make an even bigger deal out of her
endorsement, and more empowering
later on.

[maxanne]

61. as I continue to point out to you

you are disrespectful of her choices. Every day is a sad day for women, because there are so many men on the planet who don't respect our choices.

[Cheswick2.0]

49. I see by your profile you are male

If I were a man I would be ashamed of attacking this fine woman candidate for partisan reasons. The most visible time to endorse another candidate is when your supporters are watching your last statement as a candidate. Obviously CMB thinks Dean is a better candidate than whoever you support.

[DemBones DemBones]

59. I'm female and I'm just as disappointed that CMB dropped out

before Iowa. But why aren't men allowed to have opinions on women in politics?

He makes a valid point, that CMB could have gotten some short-term media focus. She could have said she'd announce her endorsement of another candidate Friday (or Saturday, or Sunday.)

[maxanne]

62. DemBones DemBones

She made the choice.

ourwinter says:
"The true insult to women in America is that she must leave her campaign and immediately endorse front runner Howard Dean; by doing so Braun has denied herself even the ability to concede defeat alone, she must share the limelight with Dean in her final hour, and all talk will be regarding her endorsement, as if her candidacy was merely an afterthought. "

What CMB did was her choice. She made it, and ourwinter is going on about how insulting it is to women? I find his failure to acknowledge that a grown woman in politics can choose to do what she wants insulting.

If all he were doing were criticizing her choices, that would be one thing. But all this opining on "the true insult to women" is rubbish.

[DemBones DemBones]

66. Maxanne, if men can't opine about women,

we can't opine about them, and I'd really object to that, wouldn't you?

You can say he went overboard to say this was "the true insult to women." I might agree with you on that. But it is certainly a disappointment for women who want to see women gain an equal footing in politics. Everyone knew CMB faced huge obstacles to begin with and hadn't been able to raise much money, so her dropping out wasn't a shock. And she'd been playing up to Dean in the debates, so her endorsement of him was no shock, either.

But her dropping out before Iowa was a surprise. Why campaign up until late Wednesday night before a Monday caucus and then drop out? Was it a condition of the deal she made with Dean? (Drop out now and endorse me and I'll make you my __________ ; drop out after Iowa and you'll have to get in line.) I think politicians make those kind of deals, but it's still disappointing to think they do, especially if someone you've thought was honorable is involved.

I lost a lot of respect for CMB because of the timing of her choice.

[polpilot]

60. Double huh? Braun seeing Dean 'up close' says he's the one.

Problem with that?

Dean '04...

[bigwillq]

2. Sad to see her go

I thought she had some good ideas and was truly an outsider by being a woman in a race always dominated by men. Although I'm supporting Dean, I don't think she should've supported another candidate so soon. Actually I don't think any of the candidates who drop out should publicly endorse anyone.

[nini]

3. She may be trying to undo any damage Sharpton may have done to him

.. in the last debate regarding him not hiring minorities.

Her endorsement speaks volumes.

She is a class act to be sure.

[bigwillq]

4. True

She did tell Sharpton to lay off Dean in that debate. Oh, I welcome the endorsement but I still think it's kind of quick for her to make the endorsement. It's the first thing she did right after pulling out.

[ourwinter]

18. Agreed

[Caution]

6. I disagree

When a candidate who drops out endorses another candidate the point is to convince that candidate's supporters to shift support onto another candidate. It strengthens the other candidate (and typically one endorses someone that one feels would be the right choice).

Ms Braun endorsing Dean says that she feels that Dean is the right choice if she herself is not going to be President (for whatever reason).

All candidates who drop out shoudl do this in order to strengthen the eventual nominee. As the field narrows down to one, the Democratic party needs the support of all its members in order to throw out Bush and his criminal gang. I honestly hope that if and when Kucinich drops out he convinces the Greens who have latched onto his campaign that the best thing they can do for the country is to get behind whomever the nominee is. The same holds true for Clark, Kerry, Edwards, Dean, Sharpton, Gephardt, and Lieberman (though I am most afriad of losing the Greens who support Kucinich than any of the supporters of the other candidates). From the discourse on DU, it appears that DK's Greens are the most likely to simply sit the election out or vote for some no chance of winning Green candidate. (no offense meant, just an observation).

[ourwinter]

35. Timing is everything

and I agree, former candidates
should and will back other
candidates when they bow out.

Whether their troops truly move
on over to someone else may
or may not happen.

To me, how these endorsements will be given
speaks volumes. People spend real time
and energy on campaigns, not to mention
money. The fact that a candidate drops
out certainly is a blow to these people.
Thus, dropping to me at least, should be
done and then addressed as a sepearte
issue done in its fair time.

Think for a second if Dean dropped
(I'm not trying to say that he will, or
initiate a Dean discussion here just
simply assuming that many of the people
commenting here are Dean supporters.)
and then the same day Dean said: "You
know Kerry is the man!" People
would be outraged, the support base would
be slapped -- they had not been supporters
of Kerry, they are not interested in Kerry
they hate Kerry he is the opposite of Dean
in every way - and here is Dean acting as a
poster for Kerry now.

Any thoughts?

[CWebster]

5. It is amazing...

the ludicrus attempts to make the most obscure reason to bash Dean.

It was Carol's choice, and by attacking her decision you attack her.

All these Dean is losing because he is winning posts are ridiculous.

[ourwinter]

16. All I suggested

Was that she wait 24 hours.

Don't avoid the topic that it turns her
candidacy for president into little
more than an endorsement.

[babzilla]

67. 24-hour waiting period

hmmm, where have I heard that phrase before?

http://www.ppmsd.org/legislative/arwaitingperiods.asp
http://www.ppslr.org/Media/Articles/0305_01.htm
http://news.mpr.org/features/2003/04/14_scheckt_righttoknow/
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/005/9.23.html
http://www.okchoice.org/issues/24hour.html
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/1918400
http://www.scotsdalewomenscenter.com/consent.html

[maxanne]

70. babzilla

thank you. :thumbsup:

[babzilla]

71. sure thing, maxanne

Like I always say, everything I need to know I learned in Feminism 101. No wait, I never say that, nevermind.

A sadder day for women is the 24-hours that the women in 19 states have to wait between being given a fetus lecture and the legal medical procedure that they have determined necessary.

The 24-hour waiting period is a result of legislative bodies that believe that they have the right to legislate women's bodies.

Silly legislators.


I like to call this one Father knows best, otherwise know as the giddy ridden signing of the "partial-birth abortion" ban.

They sure look mighty pleased with themselves. Talk about your sad days for women.

[ourwinter]

21. Plus

My comment would hold true 100% to any,
ANY of the candidates that she had
decided to back - this has nothing to do
with Dean

[kcwayne]

7. IMO you are reading more into this than is warranted

My first reaction to her announcement is that maybe she wants to align with Dean to work on a Dean/Braun ticket. If I were Dean, I would certainly want to go down this path. It would engage women and minorities in his grassroots campaign in greater numbers.

I would say that what she did was not whimiscal at all, it was groundbreaking. More women need to do what she has done to gain momentum. You can't expect to hit a home run the first time you step up to the plate. In the last 20 years, we have only had Ferraro and Schroeder even run for President or VP. There needs to be more efforts like Brauns to make the idea more acceptable to the general population.

[FreeperSlayer]

9. A Dean/Braun ticket?

edited for "Temporary Loss of Sanity".

[ourwinter]

20. Timing, timing, timing

Everything is about her
endorsement, not her issues,
not her candidacy.

Read it in the headlines

[CWebster]

23. Who cares how the press spins it

that is her decision and she knew full well the weight of her decision.

That is not for you to judge in a back-handed effort to diminish Dean or the significance of Carol's support.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NicoleM]

24. Her candidacy is OVER.

That's all anybody in the media would have said about it. And then they would have gone back to obsessing over the horse-race and ignoring the issues, as they always do. Her endorsement has more impact if she does it while she still has some media attention.

[NicoleM]

8. This is funny.

It's a sad day for women that a woman did what she wanted to do? I don't get it. I'm a woman, and it's not a sad day for me. I really like CMB and I'm supporting Dean, so CMB giving her support makes me the opposite of sad.

[bigwillq]

10. That's a good way to look at it

Do you think if Dean is elected in Nov. he'll give CMB a cabinent seat?

[NicoleM]

13. Yup.

They clearly like each other. She's very qualified to do a lot of things and she's an asset to the party. I'm sure she'll get a good spot if she wants it.

[bigwillq]

14. What about a VP slot?

[NicoleM]

15. Probably not.

I think that will go to a white guy from the South or possibly Bill Richardson.

[bigwillq]

22. No disrespect

But I think Dean needs to go with a white guy from the south myself. CMB as VP will be historic but I don't know how much it'll help Dean.
Dean needs all the votes in the south he can get.

[zulchzulu]

11. CMB was the wrong woman to represent women running for office

She was thrown out of office in 1992 by the people of Illinois because she was corrupt and misused the people's trust and tax dollars with her scandal-plagued term in office.

One of her stints was when she decided to go to Paris to study the educational system there. Well, supposedly... She spent months there staying in exclusive hotels, going to expensive restaurants, seeing all the shows and got wined and dined by all the fab French celebs. Thousands of taxpayer-spent dollars later, she came back to Illinois empty-handed without any solutions to solve the educational concerns in Illinois.

I saw the AFL-CIO debate last August in Chicago and whenever she was on the tube, the people from Chicago booed as loud as they could.

She's another bad example of someone who doesn't do the cause of women running for office any good. Good riddance, Carol.

More about her here:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2078924/

[Mairead]

33. I certainly would have preferred a woman who was more representative

of women politically. I view CMB as almost a DLCer -quite conservative- and I don't have a sense that many woman are that far to the right. Having Ireland as her campaign manager helped a little, but not much since Ireland is herself rather conservative.

CMB's willingness to endorse Dean surprised me though -- I didn't think of her as being that far to the right. I thought she'd endorse Kerry, actually, or perhaps Clark. Then I remembered that her identity as a politician is probably more figural for her at this point, so she's going with the guy she perceives as the winner rather than the one to whom she's ideologically closest.

[ourwinter]

37. ALL the DKers

I ever read always so damn insightful and
balanced. Thanks for sharing your POV.

[Cheswick2.0]

51. Almost everyone is too centrist for you

so I am not really concerned.

[DemBones DemBones]

55. Must be why Mairead supports progressive DEMOCRAT Kucinich,

because she's only satisifed with radical members of the socialist party.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

C'mon, Cheswick, you know better than this!

[Cheswick2.0]

56. that's his argument not mine

I am not the one calling CMB too centrist. We will see what happens when Nader lite DK drops out.

[DemBones DemBones]

57. You said she wanted a radical socialist; I said she supports a Democrat,

Dennis Kucinich, a fine Democrat who chairs the Progressive Caucus in the House of Representatives, has been a Democrat all his life, holding office first at the age of 22. Kucinich has ruled out running as a Green because he believes in the party of FDR.

Ralph Nader used to be a hero to liberals and I think it's wrong to disparage the man's whole life, the real achievements of his career, because he ran as a Green in 2000. It bothered me then but he did nothing illegal and no one had to vote for him. No one will ever know what would have happened if he hadn't run.

Dennis Kucinich obviously disagrees with Ralph Nader about the Democratic Party and respects Nader's other accomplishments, so I doubt he'd be insulted at being compared to Nader. It makes it quite clear that DK is a long way from Bush-Lite. :7


P.S. My brother, a union man who has held working class jobs all his life, voted for Nader because of NAFTA. (He also knew his state would give its electoral votes to Bush.) So you see that Nader wasn't preferred only by college-educated ivory-tower liberals, as his support is sometimes spun.

Four years later, the ONLY Dem who'd scrap NAFTA and set up fair trade bilateral agreements is Kucinich. You think my brother, and all the people who agree with him, will vote for a pro-NAFTA Dem this time, with thousands of jobs GONE since then?

[Mairead]

72. Ches, you say that as tho all politics are ethically equivalent

But they're not. Being a 'centrist' means being someone who favors taking care of the interests of the wealthy few at the expense of the poor majority. It's a highly elitist position that is not only ethically objectionable in itself but, for most of the people who hold it, contrary to their very own interests and thus stupidly self-destructive.

Being a 'centrist' rather than a liberal or leftist is not like preferring vanilla ice cream above chocolate. It's a stance that has serious real-world effects on billions of people!

How can you possibly justify being eager to take care of the wealthy few at the expense of people like yourself?

[Cheswick2.0]

50. she has been cleared of all charges of wrong doing

As you well know. I am sorry if the ignorant assholes you hang out with booed her. It means nothing to me that your associates are uninformed fools.

[mbali]

58. Being cleared can't always save a seriously damaged reputation

CMB, regardless what you think of her, has some serious baggage. Fair or not, these things will stick to her forever and make her a serious liability on anyone's ticket.

[maxanne]

12. the true insult

is that you are condemning her right to make her own choices, in your zeal to slam another candidate. Trivializing her decisions goes against everything you claim to be promoting in your post.

Carol Mosely Braun has been a great candidate. She's been smart, and she's been dignified. She's run a heck of a race, imo - and I hate to see her go.

The real sorrow is that women still aren't considered viable candidates for POTUS in this sexist world. The real sorrow is that no matter what we do, some guy thinks they should make our choices for us.

[ourwinter]

25. Thanks for the Spin

Try to read into it -
She backs out and the first thing she does
is run to give someone her support.

I am questioning her timing, that is all.
This is not a question of "asking her not
to do what she wants to do" it is questioning
whether for women the best thing to do is
to simply dump and run to the next person in
line.

For her this was her decision, is she
infallable? I think not.


Let it sink in for 24 hours - why not let it
wait?

[maxanne]

29. you are second guessing

her choices. You posted about what a sad day for women it is...and then you criticize the choices she is free to make. If she'd endorsed a different candidate, would you still be singing this song?

It's your right to criticize her choics, but it is not your right to couch the criticism in "sad day for women" rhetoric.

I repeat - what is sad for women is that men so often feel better qualified to make our choices for us.

[ourwinter]

32. Again...

Read what I have written -

I would sing the very same song no matter WHO
she endorsed.

Again, this has nothing to with Dean.
Again, this has nothing to do with some obscure
backward twist that I'm trying to suppress the
right of women to choose.

I am only suggesting why combine the back out
and endorse in the same day.

So far, no one - has addressed that here besides.
Who cares.

[maxanne]

44. how about

because SHE WANTED TO DO IT THIS WAY?

It's been repeated numerous times, by numerous posters. Why is this so hard to accept?

[ourwinter]

34. What is

empowering about her endorsing another candidate?

The only woman who is in the race backs out and
throws an endorsement out the same day, as it states
in my statement - why not ackowledge the field
and then endorse 12 hours later, even 6 hours later

Did you take feminism 101?

[maxanne]

63. oooh, feminism 101

what an insult. :eyes:

Making her own choices and handling it her own way is empowering. I'm at a loss as to why you are so critical of her for doing that.

[Cheswick2.0]

52. So give us a valid precedent

For her waiting 24 hours.

[bloom]

19. wrong

Seems to me if she is using the influence that she has developed that is a positive thing.

Not for you apparently.

[ourwinter]

27. ?

[CMT]

28. She should be in the position Al Sharpton is in

Sharpton is a articulate man but doesn't have an ounce of the qualifications that CMB has as a State Rep, US Senator, and Ambassador. I wish her campaign had gone further.

[ourwinter]

36. As Do I

[DemBones DemBones]

68. Yes, and she wasn't because she didn't

come up with his great one-liners and because she played like a woman.

(Pause to don asbestos suit. . .)

CMB played like a woman by playing slo-pitch softball when everyone else was playing hardball (and some were throwing sliders and spitballs.) She couldn't, or wouldn't, overcome her inclination to be a referee and a peacemaker between candidates, and a woman doing that looks like a Mommy. Mommies are valuable but politics has always been a Daddy's game.

I don't think women in politics should try to look like men or act like men, but they need to avoid showing their Mommy-ness when working. It's difficult for all of us because our socialization was different from the socialization of our male peers. It can be argued that politics/ government/ business could all use more Mommy-ness. But in the present reality, women need to play down their Mommy sides, while not being so assertive that they get called "bitch" or worse.

Unfair and difficult, yes. Impossible, no. As the saying goes, Ginger Rogers did everything that Fred Astaire did, except she had to do it backwards and in high heels.

[mbali]

69. And when she tried to pull out the big guns, she mis-fired

For example, she was way off base last Sunday when, in an strange attempt to defend Howard Dean, she attacked John Edwards - with completely wrong information - claiming that he had voted with George Bush more than any other Senator. Edwards shot her down pretty devastatingly, pointing out - correctly - that, not only was she wrong, but the very source she cited had reported the exact opposite. In fact, Edwards had voted against Bush more than any other Senator, a piece of information her bizarre diatribe gave him a shining opportunity to highlight.

Perhaps at that stage in her campaign she was exhausted and frustrated and could not afford a researcher to help her prep for the debate.

I felt rather sorry for her - it was not her finest moment.

[David Zephyr]

39. It Is a Sad Day. I'm a Dean Supporter, But Wished She'd Stayed In.

She brought so much to the debates that the others wouldn't and couldn't. I really wish she would have hung in there longer.

Mark my words, her absence will really be apparent in the next debates.

[ourwinter]

40. I agree she

will be missed, but
she won't be forgotten
and will most likely be
seen on the campaign
trail for Dean in the
future.

[SW FL Dem]

41. I agree

I liked Carol. It is a sad day for women. I have to question her timing. I wonder if the new Zogby poll today had anything to do with it

[ourwinter]

42. Timing in this business

is... everything

[Cheswick2.0]

53. Is this the new talking point on the Clark Blog?

her timing her timing!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[Cheswick2.0]

47. Nonsense

When candidates drop out they often endorse anther candidate. Are only men allowed to make those connections? I resent your insinuation about her character. You are the one who should be ashamed.

[ourwinter]

48. Timing, Timing, Timing

Read through my answers to this question
again, and again.

[Cheswick2.0]

54. bullshit bullshit bullshit

read my responses

[maxanne]

64. silly Cheswick

If CMB had followed male advice, that would have been empowering.

[diamondsoul]

74. Funny, Graham is the only other candidate to

have dropped out and to my knowledge he has yet to endorse.

That's being sensible. Carol is being politically expedient and damned sure not doing me as a woman any favors.

[DemBones DemBones]

76. Glad to see another woman agreeing!

With the way the polls are reading the past few days, I can't help but think that Carol's endorsement is a deal done to save Dean. After all the media hype, the year ( year and a half?) of campaigning, all the"Dean will be the nominee so deal with it!" attitude, if Dean doesn't WIN, and WIN BIG, in Iowa, he'll be seen as a guy who can't deliver the votes. And he's falling in NH, too, with Kerry coming up quickly there.

So, even though CMB had little support, he could benefit from her transferring her votes to him. I said earlier in this thread that there could have been an inducement like this: "Drop out and endorse me before Iowa and I promise you the position you want. After Iowa, you'll have to get in line." Ugly as it seems, we know politicians make that sort of deal. It made me have less respect for Carol, though, if she caved to get a cabinet position or whatever.

But now I'm wondering if maybe Carol was the one making the deal? "Look here, I'll drop out and endorse you before Iowa if you'll make me __________ if you win. Or I can stay in and keep taking some of the votes, votes you really need if you're going to win and look like a winner."

Reports did say that she went to him to talk last Sunday. . .

I hope that's what really happened. I hope she played this hand like a man and won.

Don't they say "Politics is the art of the deal?"

[ScholarSeeker]

65. You are reading too much into this

[Oreegone]

75. What??? this is great !!!

She is the first female candidate for President, who could ask for a better person, in a perfect world she would be my candidate.

She doesn't have an ego problem so she realized that her campaign was not going anywhere so she threw her support to the candidate she sees has the best chance of winning against GW. She did it before any votes could be fragmented. How classy, how proud I am that she is my female representative in this campaign.

Carol I wish I could personally tell you :yourock:

[George_Bonanza]

77. Is it true that the Braun endorsement is a business deal?

I have heard from unreliable sources that Braun endorsed Dean because he was the one willing to pay off her campaign debts. Is this true?