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php1949 Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 03:41 PM
Original message
Kerry or Edwards
Here is my limited reasoning: I believe if the elections were held tomorrow, Edwards would beat Bush by a bigger margin than Kerry would. I don't care about the polls. At this point in time, more Americans are concerned with domestic issues. Edwards is (aside from Kucinich), the best candidate to win an election that would focus on health care and unemployment. The problem is, we can not underestimate the treachery of the neocons who control the White House. If Edwards is the nominee, I will guarantee you that Osama will be caught, followed by many, many orange alerts, thus shifting the focus of the election to homeland security and foreign policy; Edwards looses. If Kerry is the nominee, the neocons will focus on attacking Kerry for his voting record and manipulating figures to make it appear that the economy is getting better. Kerry will focus on foreign policy and kick the chickenhawk's butt while running ads to point out that the economy really ISN'T getting better; maybe to the Wall Street guys, but not to the millions of unemployed. So, all things considered, I think Kerry is a stronger candidate and I will vote for him Tuesday. I had to write this to commit myself to actually doing it. I sure do like Edwards.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. I doubt it, because.....
I've been a Dean supporter for a long time. I have said all along that I will support whoever the nominee is, but I spend lots of time listening to c-span, cnn, msnbc and on the net. I mentioned to my husband that I was thinking about going to meet Edwards today in Atlanta. His response was "Who's Edwards?" Now you have to understand that I talk about this stuff all the time, and the fraudulant things * does. I've listed to all the debates, and this guy who lives in THIS HOUSE doesn't know who Edwards is!!!!!!!!!!

If he doesn't know, what do you think it's like in most homes that have a million other things to do besides listening to radio, tv, and the net?

I agree Edwards would be the better candidate against Bush because Rove and the boys have put a lot of energy into digging up stuff on Kerry. They'd have to start all over if it's Edwards; plus he doesn't have 20+ years of votes to exploit.

Edwards just hasn't received as much media attention as Kerry & Dean. Too bad too!
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Look be realistic neither one of them has a chance. The shrub
hasn't even said a bad word about them yet. Once the media the religious nuts and his own 200 mil. advertising campaign start they will be explaining how they are not traitors. That doesn't even count the 3 to 5 OBL capture type events planed before then. Start working on the Congress at least we can limit the damage.
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Please reconsider.
******important disclaimer: I like John Kerry and will support him if he is the nominee. I'm just pointing out what I'm afraid the Republicans will do to him on defense******

I agree with much of your analysis. However, I think Kerry is the most vulnerable candidate on defense issues. They will use his voting record on defense and foreign policy to paint him as weak on defense and as a flip-flopper who can't be trusted to make the tough decisions necessary to lead us in difficult times.

If John Kerry is the nominee watch for over $200 million dollars worth of ads like these:

John Kerry, "he's been wrong for 32 years. He's wrong now."
(from Washington Post 2-20-04 on plans by Bush's advertising team.)

-1970 Kerry said that US troops should be deployed, "only at the directive of the United Nations." (Washington Post 2-20-04)

-1997 on the Senate floor, Kerry asked why the nation's "vast intelligence apparatus continues to grow even as government resources for essential priorities fall short."(NYTimes 1-28-04)

-After Sept. 11th on Face the Nation, "The tragedy is, at the moment, that the single most important weapon for the United States of America is intelligence, and we are weakest, frankly, in that particular area." (NYTimes 1-28-04)

-1980's Kerry was against death penalty for terrorists. Now he's for it.

-1991 Kerry voted against first Gulf War resolution because he was afraid that if he voted to authorize the use of force Bush 1 would fail to pursue all other alternatives first.

-2003 Kerry voted for the Iraq War Reolution and then complained that Bush rushed to war without exhausting all options.

Zell Miller, "Kerry's voting record is terrible on defense." The Republicans are going to list all of the weapons systems he voted against which have since been used to save American lives in the most recent two wars. They are going to cite all of his votes to cut intelligence and defense.

"John Kerry is a hypocrite"
This line will be followed by examples of Kerry's 19 years in the Senate taking special interest money. Republicans will use this to nuetralize one of Bush's main liabilities. Voters will think both Kerry and Bush are the same when it comes to special interests, only Kerry is a hypocrit about it.

Everything they did to Dukakis, they will do to Kerry. Remember Kerry was Lt. Governor during Dukakis infamous parole program.

Bottom line: Kerry's experience is a huge liability. Republicans will paint him as a career politician who changes positions to go with the political tide.


What do they have on Edwards?

-He was a trial lawyer? But that didn't work in NC and it is impossible to attack him on that without attacking his very sympathetic clients.

-He is inexperienced? He has more foreign policy experience than Bush when he was elected. Edwards has travelled to Pakistan and met Musharif. Bush couldn't name the leader of Pakistan in the 2000 campaign. It's very difficult to write adds attacking the lack of something. Furthermore, it's difficult to maintain that Bush did a good job despite his initial inexperience while at the same time maintaining that Edwards is too inexperienced.

Bush 1 found that the "Clinton is too inexperienced argument was a looser." And Bush 2 will find the same thing.





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php1949 Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Good argument. I'm weakening.
OK. Does Edwards have any secrets we don't know about. He's good looking. I hope he hasn't had any problems with women. Any skeletons?
If there is even a hint of an indiscretion, the neocon ghouls will find it.
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. No skeletons there.
He and Elizabeth have been married 27 years. I've read his book, seen them together, and they seem very close. On their first anniverseray, they were moving so they had their first anniverseray dinner at Wendy's. Every year since then they have dinner at Wendy's on their anniversary. Couples that aren't close don't do things like that. I've also read a profile with an interview of Elizabeth where she talks about how John treated her when they were dating. He was very sweet and it's obvious he really cares about her and respects her. His love and respect for her also comes through loud and clear in his book. If there was even a rumour of infidelity it would have come out in his Senate campaign.

Here are a couple more reasons to consider Edwards:

1.) He has all the hallmarks of a very popular President and will likely have longer coattails and have an easier time getting his agenda through Congress. Because he is so articulate and connects with ordinary Americans, he will make the most effective use of the bully pulpit of the Presidency.

2.) Because of his positive optimistic style, he may have a better chance of changing the tone in Washington. John Edwards runs a future oriented campaign based on his vision of turning "two Americas" into "One America." I'm worried that John Kerry's "bring it on" attitude will keep the campaign mired in divisive issues of the past like Kerry's voting record and Vietnam.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. If you have any more questions, just let me know.




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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Top 10 reasons Edwards is most electable.
Top 10 Reasons
John Edwards is the Most Electable Democrat

1.) John Edwards has a positive and optimistic message.
Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton have two things in common: They are the only two Presidents to have been elected and re-elected in the past 30 years and they are both famous optimists. In the general election, negativity turns people off. Besides Republicans have a natural advantage in a battle based on negative attacks- They're meaner. We should think twice about inviting them to "bring it on."

2.)John Edwards has a compelling vision for One America.
John Edwards will do for Democrats what Reagan did for Republicans- articulate a coherent philosophy of government that defines the ideals, values and vision of the party. With his Two Americas speech, John Edwards frames a debate the Republicans cannot win. For the first time in a long time, Democrats would be on offense, not defense. We must not let the Republicans continue to set the agenda.

3.) John Edwards makes a powerful case.
John Edwards is legendary for his ability to persuade. He made a career of convincing juries to vote his way. Many of the members on those juries in North Carolina were undoubtedly Republicans with a mistrust of attorneys. Yet he won them over nearly every time. He was the most feared attorney in the state, and he is the most feared Democrat in the Bush White House. Just imagine him on the stage with Bush.

4.) A military record alone does not make a candidate strong on national security. Remember Democratic Senator Max Cleland who lost three limbs in Vietnam, and then lost to a Republican draft-dodger in 2002. The Republicans distorted Cleland’s voting record to attack him on national security, even going so far as to picture him with Osama Bin Laden. And it worked!

Ronald Reagan was perceived by many Americans to be strong on defense, yet the closest he came to combat was making army training films during WWII. When it comes to National Security, Americans are looking for good judgement, leadership, and integrity. They will not trust someone who appears to be wishy-washy or who appears to change positions to go with the political tide. Again, it comes down to trust. John Edwards is competent and honest. People will trust him to make the right decisions on their behalf.

Furthermore, with his five years in the Senate, John Edwards already has more foreign policy experience than Reagan, Clinton, or George W. Bush when they were elected. John Edwards has travelled to places like Afghanistan and Pakistan and met with leaders there. (Remember during the 2000 campaign George W. Bush was unable to name the leader of Pakistan. It will be difficult for them to attack Edwards for lack of experience and maintain that Bush was a good Commander-in-Chief despite his initial lack of experience.)

One last point on national security experience: Has experience made George Bush a better President? The problem with Bush and foriegn policy has never been his lack of experience. The problem with Bush is his arrogance, intellectual laziness, poor judgement, and lack of integrity. On the stage with George Bush, Edwards will seem much more trustworthy with respect to our national security.

5.) If experience won elections, Arnold Schwarzenegger would not be Governor of California, and Al Gore would have won in a landslide.
With his five years in the Senate, John Edwards has enough experience to be credible on domestic and foreign policy issues but not enough experience to be labelled a career politician or Washington insider.

6.) John Edwards leaves the Republicans scratching their heads about how to attack him.
He's been married 27 years. He has a short voting record in the Senate. He truly believes what he is saying and knows what he is all about as a candidate. His message is consistent. The Republicans tried to attack him for being a trial lawyer when he ran for the Senate, and it didn't work. It's difficult to attack him on that issue without attacking his very sympathetic clients. They will have a hard time with "the not ready for prime-time" argument because Bush has been President for three years, and he still isn't ready for prime time. Edwards has a firmer grasp of the issues and is much more articulate than Bush. Edwards' sunny disposition and upbeat style also make him a more problematic target for attack ads.


7.) John Edwards connects with ordinary Americans.
In my home state of Ohio, a very important state for Democrats to win, moderate Republicans and Democrats alike tell me, “You know who I like? John Edwards.” In a general election, people vote for the candidate they like and trust, not for the candidate with the longest resume. Edwards beats Bush in the general election by about 10 points according to a recent CNN/USAToday Poll. He has demonstrated his appeal to moderate Republicans and independents by winning among this group in WI.

8.) John Edwards is the son of a mill worker.
John Edwards’ life story contrasts sharply with the background of wealth and privilege of George W. Bush. Unlike Bush, Edwards understands the problems of ordinary Americans. Republicans will not be able to paint Edwards as an out-of-touch, liberal elitist.

9.) John Edwards will compete with George W. Bush in every state.
John Edwards would force Bush to spend time and resources in the South. He would also force Bush to take more socially conservative positions to hold his Southern base thereby, making Bush less competitive in the battleground states.


10.) John Edwards is not too young, he just looks too young.
I know he doesn’t look it, but John Edwards is 50 years old. John Kennedy was only 44 when he was elected President and that was during the height of the Cold War. Bill Clinton was only 46.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. What is Edwards' stance on Howard Stern-Clear Channel?
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Cosmicdot
I'm not sure, but I haven't heard any comments by Edwards. I think someone would have posted it in response to the post you linked if Edwards had made a response.
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California Democrat Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kerry in vulnerable....
Kerry has a lot of issues that the Republicans can exploit.

Even his Vietnam experience has problems. Check out this footage from the Village Voice....

Hope CNN doesn't run it....

http://www.villagevoice.com/video/nyc-vets-02-28-04.php
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It's so good to hear a California voter say that.
I spent a lot of time on a message board in OH yesterday defending Kerry's service, but people there really hate him. I sure don't want the entire Presidential campaign to be about Vietnam. Edwards will have a future oriented campaign based on his vision of turning two Americas into One America. He frames a debate the Democrats will actually win.

I wrote two other posts in this thread, "please reconsider" and "Top 10 Reasons Edwards is the Most Electable." I've been sending them out to other Democrats I know, hoping to reach undecided voters. Here's hoping we can pull off a couple of victories for Edwards on Tues.
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. And I took them to even more boards
10 reasons for an Edwards nomination...thanks for the list
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Great surfermaw!
I think these kind of grassroots efforts are why Edwards usuallt surges late.
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