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wunnerfulrobin Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 11:43 AM
Original message
12 GA Democrat legislators endorse Bush!
From AP:
12 state democrats endorsed George Bush on Thursday; saying that a candidate like Howard Dean will fail miserably if he is the Dem. pick in Nov. "He (wouldn't) win a single southern state" said Rep. Mike Snow.
Go figure
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. What are they getting out of this?
It's January, fer Chrissakes, what are they doing? What have they been promised? This is awful news, of course, but why now? More details needed.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. more details about the dirty dozen...
Edited on Sat Jan-17-04 10:35 PM by flaminbats
Griffin Bell, while not a state legislator, was one of these DINOs eager to support shrub. Nothing new about this..he supported Reagan in 84, daddy bush, Dole, and shrub in 2000. He essentially switched parties in the eighties.
Only one of the 12, Ken Birdsong, came from a district that Gore won in 2000.
Mike Boggs from Waycross is serving his last term in the Georgia House.
Carl Rogers is one of Gainesville's last DINOs to survive in 1994, and is in the insurance business.
Charles Jenkins is the evil brother of Ed Jenkins, and was recently saved in a recent election by the last minute support of Zell Miller.
Mike Snow won his runoff in Chickamauga, by sticking the old 1956 state flag on all of his campaign signs...and only by outflagging his opponent on race.
Robert Ray of Fort Valley was elected in the hotbed of Perdue's political base, and his district was one that Shrub took overwhelmingly, his two reasons to back Shrub. He also supports Larry Walker, another Shrub backer, and Coleman's former challenger to become Speaker.
Jeanette Jamison lives in a district that is in the mountains, as are the districts of Jenkins and Snow. Minority voters make up less than 5% of the population in these districts, and they have more wealthy voters moving in with every passing week.
Bobby Parham and Mickey Channell are both powerful leaders in the House Democratic leadership, and without Tom Murphy to protect their asses..they fear this power is at risk if they don't follow the Miller.
Johnny Floyd and Penny Houston both come from towns in south Georgia that strongly favored Chambliss and Perdue in 2002, shrub in 2000, and now they can buddy it up with Zig zaG ZELL, while maybe winning over Re puke voters.

None of these DINOs will switch parties as long as Democrats control the majority in the House. But now if this changes, the dirty dozen wish to gain Zell's support in case they do switch parties.
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9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-18-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Great info. Don't suppose the media will report this.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-18-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Why bother to report some boring details to literate voters?
The media doesn't feel obligated to be a source of information to voters!

In the era of corporatized truth, this is the kind of info every voter must now gather themselves.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. The Democratic Party needs to come down on them like a ton of bricks. If
it were Repubs endorsing Democrats, the Republican party would scare the life our out of them and they would back down so fast your head would spin-

Re: O'Neill took ONE day to back down on his book.

The Democrats must, must be in charge of their own members.
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. gotta be blackmail..........
surely they didn't decide this on their own?
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Why?
There have been a whole lot of Georgia Democrats changing parties lately.

When people say that some candidates will drive off southern democrats do you think they are lying?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. People here have been trying to tell you what we're up against
in the South, and you haven't been listening.
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. So we have to pick a Southerner.
No matter how weak, no matter how many skeletons said candidate might have in his or her closet, no matter is said candidate makes even Bush look good by comparison.

This is a specious argument at best. You can do better than that.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. I hope you don't light a cigarette near your straw man.
*
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jerryster Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-18-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. The Southern angle
I'm coming to this discussion a little late. However, there are valid reasons for picking a Sotherner. Consider: The last 2 successful Dem Pres candidates, Clinton and Carter were Southerners. I supported Gore but the "charge" that he is not a "true Southerner" has some validity. He was raised in DC and the part of Tennessee he is "from" did not, to its credit, secede from the Union. While you can count me among those who know Gore won the election the fact remains that had he won Tennessee, Florida wouldn't have mattered. I am not saying we should pick just anyone who is Southern.However, the geographic angle can't be ignored completely.
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. You are wrong about Gore.
He did go to school in DC because his father was a Senator, but they were always around, week-ends, holidays, and summers, and any time the Senate was not in session. How do I know this? I grew up 30 miles from Al's home in Carthage, Tennessee. And also, Tennesse did secede, although Eastern Tennessee was sympathetic to the North. Al is, like me, from Middle Tennessee. But I really don't see what secession has to do with Al Gore, anyway.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. The surest way to lose every single southern state is to support Bush.
It's ridiculous to vote for Bush because Dean allegedly can't beat him.
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. And the primaries haven't even started
Why jump the gun? We don't even have a nominee yet. Geez.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Had me confused for a moment...
..."12 GA Democrat legislators endorse Bush!"

I read that as an abbreviation for '12 gauge Democrat' had my curiousity peaked for a moment.
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Sperk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm sick of the South (sorry southern DUer's) Why don't they just
go off and make their own country. All they do is suck the money out of the northern states anyway. Flame me if you will!
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NeoConned Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. A few facts for you to chew on
Edited on Sat Jan-17-04 03:31 PM by NeoConned
First--the South did make themselves their own country and, thankfully, Lincoln stopped them.
Second--if Texas were its own country (we can still legally become our own nation-it was part of the deal) it would have the 10th largest economy in the world. Florida, would also be in this ballpark.
Third--Texas, Florida, and Georgia have 41M people whereas NY, Pa., NJ (pop. 8M), and Ma. (the 4 most populous states there) have 44.4M, 8M (18% of the total pop.) of whom reside in one city (NYC).
Fourth--the combined land area of the 4 most populous NE states is 119,807 sqm. Tx, Ga, and Fla.=355,188 sqm. (268602 sqm. of which is Tx. however Fla. or Ga are both bigger than NY or Pa.).
Fifth--If the South is sucking all of the money out of the North, elect better politicians. Tx, Ga, and Fla. have 70 delegates. NY, NJ, Ma. and Pa. have 73.
Sixth--Go start your own damn country. The rest of the country won't try to stop you. I promise.
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pezcore64 Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. lol
I wish Texas would seperate.
You can take your '10th largest economy' and the worst education and enviromental records with it as well.
Btw, im a southerner.
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NeoConned Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I wish we would too.
Keep your chin up. It could happen.

BTW-at least you are a southerner, but only by the grace of God can you be a Texan. :P
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. If Texas has the 10th largest economy it's only because they
carpetbag -- just like what they were about to do to California with Enron. If Texas became its own country, we would embargo them and begin trade with Mexico.
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NeoConned Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No
We're the 10th largest economy because we suck all the money out of the Northeast.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. But for how much longer, my friend.
The Texan charm has long worn off...
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NeoConned Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I know
we're such annoying bastards aren't we. :eyes:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. lol, you guys are hilarious. (n/t)
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. You can have Texas
and BTW, the Northeast states (New England, NY, NJ, PA) has a higher GNP than Texas. 60% of Fortune 1000 companies are headquartered up here.

So, please take your state that puts more prisoners to death (including children and retarded folks) and go form your own nation. I'll miss my liberal Texas friends but not the majority of assholes that seem to come from your state.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. These are the old "Dixiecrats", the remainders, the leftovers.....
...and they can do whatever they want!

They are useless!
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Yes, but they keep getting elected....
term after term after term. The southern repubs kept electing Strom Thurmond even when he didn't know where he was at and had to be wheeled in the senate on a stretcher. Dems do the same. It's like some kind of nonsensical tradition down here. Political views are handed down like sacred traditions to be upheld generation after generation.
I've lived in the south all my life, I can't begin to explain how maddening it is. Tennessee, where I grew up, didn't even carry Al Gore in 2000. Shocking and shameful to have to admit I live in the state that could have and should have put Al Gore in the White House and Florida would have never come into play.
Zell Miller would be re-elected tomorrow if he were to run in Georgia, that's how bad it is.
I won't stop working to try to change things, but I can certainly tell you that it is a frustrating situation to find yourself in.
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lurk_no_more Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
26. It's Zell Miller country
Where's the surprise?


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

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andem Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
28. What is this:
By Ed Koch January, 12,2004

I am a lifelong Democrat. I was elected to New York's City Council,
Congress and three terms as mayor of New York City on the Democratic
Party line. I believe in the values of the Democratic Party as
articulated by Presidents Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John
F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson and by Senators Hubert Humphrey, Henry
"Scoop" Jackson and Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Our philosophy is: "If you
need a helping hand, we will provide it." The Republican Party's
philosophy, on the other hand, can be summed up as: "If I made it on my
own, you will have to do the same."

Nevertheless, I intend to vote in 2004 to reelect President Bush. I will
do so despite the fact that I do not agree with him on any major
domestic issue, from tax policy to the recently enacted prescription
drug law. These issues, however, pale in importance beside the menace of
international terrorism, which threatens our very survival as a nation.
President Bush has earned my vote because he has shown the resolve and
courage necessary to wage the war against terrorism.

The Democratic presidential contenders, unfortunately, inspire no such
confidence. With the exception of Senator Joseph Lieberman, who has no
chance of winning, the Democrats have decided that in order to get their
party's nomination, they must pander to its radical left wing. As a
result, the Democratic candidates, even those who voted to authorize the
war in Iraq, have attacked the Bush administration for its successful
effort to remove a regime that was a sponsor of terrorism and a threat
to world peace.

The Democrat now leading in the race, former governor Howard Dean, is a
disgrace. His willingness to publicly entertain the slander that
President Bush had advance warning of the September 11 attacks and his
statement that America is no safer as a result of the capture of Saddam
Hussein should have been sufficient to end his candidacy. But the
radicals who dominate the primaries love the red meat that is thrown to
them, even when it comes from a mad cow.

In contrast, President Bush has confronted the terrorist threat head on.
Immediately following the September 11 terrorist attacks, the president
presented the core principle of what has become known as the Bush
Doctrine, an articulation of American foreign policy that rivals in
importance the Monroe Doctrine, which barred foreign imperialism from
the Western Hemisphere, and the Truman Doctrine, which sought to contain
communism around the world. The Bush Doctrine, simply stated by the
president, is: "We will make no distinction between the terrorists who
committed these acts and those who harbor them."

President Bush has lived up to that credo. Under his leadership,
Afghanistan was liberated from Al Qaeda's patron, the Taliban. The
president also has demonstrated, through the liberation of Iraq from the
tyranny of Saddam Hussein, that he is willing to wage a preemptive war
when he believes the national interests of the United States are
endangered.

Even if we never find weapons of mass-destruction in Iraq —
though I think that we will — our military campaign for regime
change was justified. If the bodies of a quarter-million Iraqi
dissenters killed by Saddam, some tortured with their eyes gouged and
tongues cut out, is not proof enough, there is still Saddam's undisputed
use of weapons of mass destruction against his own people and Iran. That
record is why Congress overwhelmingly voted to authorize the use of
force in Iraq.

It is not only in Afghanistan and Iraq that President Bush has risen to
meet challenges presented by our increasingly dangerous world. When the
president labeled Iraq, Iran and North Korea an "axis of evil," many
commentators mocked him. When he threatened Syria, Iran and Libya with
serious consequences if they continued to support terrorist groups,
there were those who denounced him for being too bellicose. Now,
however, it appears that the president's hard line has begun to pay off.
Recently, Libya agreed to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction
programs and allow in international inspectors. There are even
indications that Iran and possibly North Korea may permit international
inspection of their nuclear programs.

Nor have the president's critics stopped him from standing up for
American interests. Many of those who oppose the Bush Doctrine also
criticize the president's opposition to the Kyoto Protocol, the
International Criminal Court and his decision to withdraw the United
States from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. These actions, however,
are well-grounded.

President Bush was correct to oppose the Kyoto Protocol. The treaty
would have exempted China and India, which have a combined population of
more than 2 billion and are among the world's largest polluters.

As for the new International Criminal Court, it would be downright
irresponsible to give this new tribunal the right to indict and try our
military personnel for war crimes, given all the enmity directed at the
United States nowadays. Instead we should continue to rely on our
military justice system, which has an excellent reputation.

President Bush also was right to withdraw from the ABM Treaty. That
treaty would have prevented the United States from deploying a shield
against nuclear missiles that could be launched by rogue states or
terrorists. The president's critics can pontificate about the importance
of international institutions all they want, but we have to face facts.
North Korea has nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them.
Pakistan not only has nuclear weapons, but is suspected of having
provided nuclear technology to North Korea, Libya and Iran. The two
recent assassination attempts against President Pervez Musharraf
highlight the dangers we face. Should Musharraf be removed or killed, no
one knows who will ultimately control Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. It
would have been negligent for President Bush to allow our hands to
remain tied at a time when we need to be exploring every option to
defend ourselves.

This record and the Democratic candidates' irresponsible rhetoric are
the reasons why I will vote for a second term for President Bush. This
does not mean, however, that I have given up on my party and its
principles. To the contrary, I will continue to fight against the
president's domestic agenda. I also hope to support the Democratic
effort to take back the presidency in 2008, but it is up to the
Democratic Party to show that it can be entrusted with our nation's
security.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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jerryster Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Article
Are you sure Koch wrote this?
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
30. After Gingrich and BBV
Robert E. Lee couldn't win that state which only a few elections ago was a good, rational Democratic opportunity. The New South! However, a massive populist turnout could shatter that. It's the only way, as in Florida or Texas than a Democrat can win in 2004. Something besides horseshoes and hand grenades where close don't count.
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digno dave Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
31. Will they feel the same way when GW's #s are in the crapper?
ss
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. In Georgia?
Yes, they'll feel the same way.

Unless Edwards is the nominee I guess.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
34. except Florida, Gore didn't win a single southern state
including Tenessee, his home fucking state

This is not helpful, your a DEM back a Dem, I hope national Democratic $$ don't go to these assholes
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