Kucinich ATTACKS DEAN NOW on CSPAN

[Nicholas_J]

Pointing out Deans Bogus health care plan...

ANd stating that over 8000 doctors DISAGREE with Deans position.

[DJcairo]

1. Nice...a little left wing back biting helps our guy Kerry

What about Dean's tax hike on the backs of the middle class.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. who's karl?

[barbaraann]

5. Yes, Dems want to tax the middle class. The GOP wants to ELIMINATE it.

n/t

[Cha]

7. your "guy kerry" needs all the freakin' help he can get.. that's for

SURE!

[dean4america]

8. they aren't tax hikes, per se - eom

.

[Tinoire]

13. Helps "our guy Kerry"

Why do I have this feeling that you're playing a little loose with the pronouns and that Kerry is not "your" guy.

A little "left wing back-biting helps". What a curious choice of words on a progressive board.

[blm]

22. Hold on...the reason I support both Kerry and Kucinich

is because they are real LEFTIES. If Dean really WAS a lefty with a long record to show it, I wouldn't have trouble supporting him.

I believe he contributed greatly to the view that liberals should be scorned and Republicans should be compromised with because that is how he governed in Vermont.

[diamondsoul]

24. *blinks a few times*

Kerry is a "lefty"? Care to give me some examples of that? Honest question. I haven't gotten to do much research on him so far so if you could give me an idea why you see him as lefty, I'd appreciate it.

So far I see him as pretty moderate on most issues.

[Nazgul35]

30. Don't worry...Kerry's a lefty...

oh...but wait....I thought Dean was too far left to get elected....so if Kerry is left of Dean........


:crazy:

ok...I lost track...who we talking about again?

[diamondsoul]

32. LOL I've never said Dean was "too far left", period!

He isn't left enough to suit me, not even close.

I want the guy who is the polar opposite of * because that's the only way we're ever going to completely eradicate his mess.

[Mairead]

59. He was one

or if not what you and I might call a 'leftie', at least an Ochsian 'liberal'. As BLM has often pointed out, he has a long, unbroken history of supporting conventionally-liberal policies. His recent turn to the right (i.e., to the DLC) is an enormous, totally uncharacteristic departure for him.

[KaraokeKarlton]

25. Vermont's liberals aren't "liberals" that you are thinking of

Dean scorned the radicals, not liberals. Vermont's moderates are actually pretty close to what you would consider liberals. The political makeup here is different. Vermont's "liberal" constituency are really quite radical. Dean also scorned the radical right just as equally. He doesn't have much patience for radicalism in any form.

[XanaDUer]

26. Kucinich was perfectly correct in his "attack" on Dean...

Both the Speciak K guys (Kerry and Kucinich) are real liberal Dems...DK addressed one of my reservations about Dean-his stance on healthcare.

Dennis was great!

[JohnKleeb]

33. exactly :)

Thats why I feel iffy on Dean. BTW I read what DK said, this isnt attacking, I think he wants to point out the difference between him and Dean, and they are far from the same, he no doubt respects Dean for bringing all those people in to the race.

[Andromeda]

60. What are you talking about?

Dean doesn't want to raise taxes on the middle-class. He wants to eliminate Bushes tax cut for the rich and use that money for a health care system that is broken and needs fixing badly. In the first place the tax cuts never benefitted the middle-class or the poor and the so-called benefits of his tax cuts won't kick in for 10-15 years. By that time the country will be broke, all the poor will be in concentration camps, anyone who earns less than 30,000 a year will be forced into slace labor, women will to have to bear children for the state, and anyone over 65 will be shot.

Health care ain't cheap and seniors are struggling to buy food, pay inflated insurance premiums, co-payments and medications. Sometimes they have to choose between food and medicine.

Dean's going to have a fight on his hands if the Republicans have anything to say about it so people are going to have to get behind him and let their voices be heard. Any Democratic nominee will have to take a long look at health care and come up with solutions.

No Democratic candidate wants to put additional tax burdens on the middle-class.

[clar]

2. Predictable politics-

Attack the frontrunner.

We can expect a whole lot more of this. I don't see it as hurting Dean. If anything these remarks will energize his large, vocal and donating base. The only person who can hurt Dean is Dean. Should he have a poor showing in the debate, that will be damaging.

[diamondsoul]

4. Once again, there was NO "attack".

He stated repeatedly 'I will make sure there IS a DEBATE because that's what the Democratic Primaries are all about!".

I resent the HELL out of your pathetically obvious attempt to incite a flame-fest between Dean and Kucinich supporters!

I will not flame Dean supporters no mater how much I may disagree with their candidate's positions. Your lovely little ploy falls on it's face unless Dean supporters have less integrity than I do, and I'm not enough of an ass to ASSume that.

[Cha]

6. Thanks for clearing that up! I give no credit to this

poster anyway!

[diamondsoul]

12. Anytime, zidzi.

To give you what NJ calls an "attack" here's what he said-

"We have one candidate who is a Medical Doctor. And when we have a Medical Doctor saying we should keep a system of health-care for profit, I think it's time for a second opinion!" He laughed when he said it. IOW, he used a joke to try to make a point, that your cnadidate's healthcare plan doesn't remove the profit motivations from the system. He also said that he wished Dr. Dean was there because he wants to debate him on the issues.

Call me crazy but I grew up knowing that was part of the candidate selection process. Now we have kooks telling us it's "attacking" instead.:crazy: :wtf:

[Cha]

19. Yeah! I like Dennis ...afterall he is my second choice!

Thanks for that report!

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. Thank you for seeing the attempt at disruption and division for what it is

He likes to try to lure anyone he can into his obsessive maniacal crusade against Dean.

[sandnsea]

15. I agree

It was just a differentiation of the two plans. Dennis was good. And he held up a newspaper with HUGE headlines about health insurance going up by double digits AGAIN. It was very effective and Dennis looked good.

[Nicholas_J]

17. It was a perfect political attack

He was ponting out Hoew Deans system would give the biggest benefits to the large health care corparations that got the bids to process claims just like he did in Vermont. Theyt made out like bandits.

[diamondsoul]

23. This isn't a war. It's commonly known as DEBATE.

Kucinich's remarks about the differences in their healthcare plans were an open <b>invitation to debate the subject.</b> His use of humor was a clear effort to show it for what it was, a friendly invitation for open and honest debate.

Give it up. Your wished for flame-fest isn't taking shape.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Whatever you call it

he talked about what he sees as the problems with Dean's healthcare proposal.

[AP]

42. And it's the rare moment when a candidate calls out another candidate

by name. That has been rare in this primary season, and I could tell that the media this weekend was looking for Kerry and Lieberman to do this with Dean.

[diamondsoul]

45. My take on that?

Kerry and Lieberman both have their own demons to battle right now. I like Kerry just fine, but at the moment, alienating people he needs to draw to him isn't the way to go.

Lieberman...as much as I hate to say it about another candidate, is pretty much screwed I think. He just doesn't have enough leftist support to start with so he doesn't dare piss them off.

Kucinich can't lose by doing this. He's being ignored by the mainstream media, he's being marginalized by a number of analysts and Op/Ed writers, and he doesn't have a lot of name recognition. At the same time there isn't much in the way of grounds to discredit him. In spite of being painted as a "fringe candidate" and an "extreme radical idealist" he isn't saying anything the people aren't thinking on their own. Challenging the strongest in terms of recognition can only work in his favor right now.

[dean4america]

9. it's not bogus

it's just not single-payer, which we won't have in this country for a long time. Nice to see DK single out Dean, when Kerry's plan is quite similar.

As for the 8,000 doctors disagreeing, why not get a number who DO agree with it. how many thousands and thousands of doctors are there in the US - 8,000 seems pretty small to me.

[diamondsoul]

14. The sole reason he singled out Dean, I think,

is because he has a position in the healthcare system. He's not alone in that. Many of us examining Dean's stand on the healthcare issue can't help but wonder how much of it is motivated by personal interest in profiting from his medical knowledge. Make no mistake, this is not an attack on Dean's character, but an acknowledgement of human nature. Dr. Dean invested a great deal in learning his trade, and it would be a tad strange, to put it mildly, if he didn't have an interest in recouping some of that investment.

Your second comment about the 8,000 doctors who signed on in support of single-payer healthcare? I have to tell you, when I saw the number I honestly wondered how many of the rest of the physicians agreed but were intimidated by the thought of insurance corporations dropping them from their rolls, and other sorts of retaliation by interested corporate parties. Would Pfizer refuse to supply this physician with insulin because of his position on single-payer health-care? These days it wouldn't shock me if they did.

[sandnsea]

16. He was ASKED about Dean

That's why he mentioned Dean. The reporter asked him how he was going to take on Dean, or something to that effect. So he answered with the health care differences. That's how I remember it anyway.

[KaraokeKarlton]

27. Kucinich should give some props for why Dean has the view he does

Dean has said he knows there are some problems with the system we have, but he's tired of fighting over reform while there are millions of people who have no health care at all. He wants something he can pass to get people covered and THEN argue about making reforms. Anyone without insurance would much rather have some kind of coverage than wait another twenty years without it while politicians argue over how to change things. Because he's had to see first hand the struggles of many people without insurance at all, it only makes sense that he takes the position he does. He wants people to have coverage.

It's fine to disagree on what needs to be done...but in the process he should at least acknowledge that something that can pass needs to happen first so people can actually have health coverage.

[diamondsoul]

31. Well now hang on-

The purpose of campaigning is to sell your own platform. That doesn't mean you don't have any respect for the other guys' platforms, it means you HAVE to challenge them. That's all he does, challenges the other candidates.

People also seem to forget that the sitting President has a lot of power over congress that isn't utilized very often. President Kucinich would not accept a healthcare program that wasn't in keeping with his promise to the people of this country. I believe him when he says he'll get it done, because he's ALWAYS kept his word to the people who voted for him.

[KaraokeKarlton]

54. Well, that's something Dean tends to do a lot

Like when he said Graham wasn't a "frontrunner"...he also had some very kind things to say about him. Same with Gephardt. I'm sure he's done the same with others as well. The one thing that Kucinich did criticize that I felt he was kind of dishonest about was the social security thing. It was back in the early to mid 90's when Dean made the comment about raising the reitrement age to 70. When Russert brought it up on MTP Dean made it clear that he didn't recall saying it and didn't believe that should be done anymore anyhow. Russert asked him if he would consider raising the age to 68 and he said he would consider it but felt it wasn't necessary to do and then he said he would do something completely different. Kucinich implied that Dean supports raising the age and that isn't true. I think he was wrong to do that. I think it's fine to compare the differences between their plans and say why he thinks his is better, but some of the added rhetoric was just in kinda bad taste, IMO. With that being said...Dean has also made some of those same missteps. He doesn't do the "handler" thing or allow anyone to tell him what to say or not say. He also writes all of his own speeches and frequently just does them "improv" style. When a candidate does that, they're going to say the wrong things sometimes. I think with Kucinich it's more of a case that he gets himself so keyed up that he sometimes spits the words out before his brain has had a chance to decide whether or not he should.

[diamondsoul]

58. I don't think Kucinich implied anything, by intention.

IIRC the statement you're objecting to was "My good friend Dr. Dean has talked about raising the retirement age to 68 and 70.". That's a statement of fact. Dean has discussed both. I have no idea how much of the MTP interview Kucinich was aware of, but his statement was true.

While I understand your discomfort with it but I don't agree. Also, imo, it doesn't discount the notion of Dr. Dean reconsidering hiking the retirement. After all he's considered it and discounted it once, so what happens if he finds SS in trouble down the line? Further he was dishonest about his past considerations of it. He denied ever considering it by his statement, so both were somewhat dishonest by your standards.

Putting that aside, though, here's the thing. Kucinich wants the nomination. He's worked very hard with very little return in the way of publicity. He's finding that the only way he's going to change that is to be aggressive about challenging his opponents. He is left with no choice but to come out strong and somewhat on the sharp side because otherwise people are busily dismissing him as unimportant and unworthy of coverage.

[Nicholas_J]

20. Sorry

Deans plan keeps LARGE amouts iof unreasinable profits in the Insurance and Mega Health care and Pharameceutical sectors.

If you check our Deans stock portfolio on Open Secrets, you will learn why Deabn doesnt want to CHANGE THEY SYSTEM...
Notice at the Labor Day in Iowa, there are almost NO Dean supporters in the sudience compaired to his other appearances. It iss a clear indicator of what I state about Dean getting large groups of his campaign workers to go from state to state in order to give the idea that he has massive support wherever he goes, If not, the same large numbers of Iowans who were around for him in the Johnson County Fair, would still be in Iowa to be at the latest Iowa labor day speeches, even if only his representative was there.

It was a pitiful turnout. If Dean's machine is not moving peopl into the areas, the showing is always pitiful..

Dean's rep just now spoke of REPEALING the entire Bush tax cuts.

[xJlM]

34. I noticed that!

When the guy representing Dean got up to speak, he got almost no response from the crowd. I saw Kucinich supporters during all of the speakers I watched, or at least folks carrying Kucinich signs or wearing Kucinich t-shirts.

[diamondsoul]

36. And shouting "GO GO DENNIS!"

Nobody likes Kucinich BUT the people.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

39. Um, Dean wasn't there

So I wouldn't expect much turnout from his supporters. How many supporters were there for the other candidates who didn't show? Seems pretty obvious to me.

You can't compare this to "his other appearances," because it wasn't an appearance. Pay attention.

And the nonsense about the people following Dean from place to place doesn't fly. You mean he brought 10,000 people with him to Seattle? 4500 to Virginia? 3500 to San Antonio?

[diamondsoul]

46. Good point about the appearance thing.

I missed the reference to it. I think what that poster meant was that of those there Kucinich had one of the loudest and most passionate responses from the audience. He gave a great speech, and I'm convinced the comment about Dean's healthcare plan was an invite to debate the subject with him, nothing more.

I do want to point out that San Antonio and Seattle are within traveling distance from other cities with strong Dean support. It's not inconcievable that many of them would travel to see him speak, is it? More than that, why is that somehow a bad thing? I've thought about doingit for Kucinich appearances and I think it's a damned fine idea.

[diamondsoul]

51. Oh and something else-

Kucinich was in Illinois and Iowa this weekend, yet his supporters here in Indianapolis turned out to be at the labor Day parade here on Saturday morning. We were the only one of the Dem candidates with a presence there.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. From post # 29:

The physicians signing onto the article account for less than 1 percent of the 813,770 physicians in the United States as of 2000, according to the AMA.

[mitchtv]

10. most doc's are repugnants

more worried about their incomes

[w4rma]

29. The ~8K doctors support a single-payer system. (Not Repug)

This is what Kucinich is talking about:

Nearly 8,000 doctors call for national health insurance
…
The doctors would put in place a single-payer system -- essentially an upgraded and expanded version of Medicare, the government health care program for the elderly and disabled.
…
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/08/12/national.insurance.ap/

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

56. Note to Nic_J:

The physicians signing onto the article account for less than 1 percent of the 813,770 physicians in the United States as of 2000, according to the AMA.

[w4rma]

28. The ~8K doctors want a single-payer system. Dean's position is incremental

…
For a year now, I have been traveling this country advocating a repeal of Bush's tax cuts so that we can provide universal healthcare and restore fiscal discipline. Many have questioned the political wisdom of challenging the president on politically popular tax cuts.

I believe, however, that given a choice between having health insurance or keeping all of the Bush's tax cuts in place, most Americans will choose health insurance. My plan will cost $88.3 billion -- less than half of the president's tax cut -- with money left over to pay down the deficits run up by this administration.

My plan consists of four major components.

First, and most important, in order to extend health coverage to every uninsured child and young adult up to age 25, we'll redefine and expand two essential federal and state programs -- Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. Right now, they only offer coverage to children from lower-income families. Under my plan, we cover all kids and young adults up to age 25 -- middle income as well as lower income. This aspect of my plan will give 11.5 million more kids and young adults access to the healthcare they need.

Second, we'll give a leg up to working families struggling to afford health insurance. Adults earning up to 185% of the poverty level -- $16,613 -- will be eligible for coverage through the already existing Children Health Insurance Program. By doing this, an additional 11.8 million people will have access to the care they need.

Many working families have incomes that put them beyond the help offered by government programs. But this doesn't mean they have viable options for healthcare. We'll establish an affordable health insurance plan people can buy into, providing coverage nearly identical to what members of Congress and federal employees receive.

To cushion the costs, we'll also offer a significant tax credit to those with high premium costs. By offering this help, another 5.5 million adults will have access to care.

Third, we need to recognize that one key to a healthy America is making healthcare affordable to small businesses.We shouldn't turn our back on the employer-based system we have now, but neither should we simply throw money at it. We need to modernize the system so employers will have an option beyond passing rising costs on to workers or bailing out of the system entirely. Fortunately, we have a model of efficient, affordable and user-friendly healthcare coverage: the federal employee health system.

With the plan I've put forth to the American people, we'll organize a system nearly identical to the one federal workers and members of Congress enjoy. And we'll enable all employers with less than 50 workers to join it at rates lower than are currently available to these companies -- provided they insure their work force. I'll also offer employers a deal: The federal government will pick up 70% of COBRA premiums for employees transitioning out of their jobs, but we'll expect employers to pay the cost of extending coverage for an additional two months. These two months are often the difference between workers finding the health coverage they need, or joining the ranks of the uninsured.

Finally, to ensure that the maximum number of American men, women and children have access to healthcare, we must address corporate responsibility. There are many corporations that could provide healthcare to their employees but choose not to. The final element of this plan is a clear, strong message to corporate America that providing health coverage is fundamental to being a good corporate citizen. I look at business tax deductions as part of a compact between American taxpayers and corporate America. We give businesses certain benefits, and expect them to live up to certain responsibilities.
…
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_health

The plan will cost an estimated, "$88.3 billion". This is paid for from some of the money saved by repealing Bush's tax cuts.

The Dean proposal expands Medicaid and CHIP to ages 25 and under. CHIP is expanded to adults earning up to "185% of the poverty level" (currently, $16,613).

For the "capitalist" half of the Dean plan: Folks with high health premium costs recived "a significant tax credit" to cushion the costs. The current "employer-based system" in use now will be modernized by upgrading it to the same healthcare coverage that "federal workers and members of Congress" have available to them.

Small buisnesses of less than 50 workers get lower rates than their larger competitors. Employers pick up the tab for 2 months in between jobs, but the costs of the COBRA premiums for those 2 months are subsidized, at 70%, by the federal government for employers. Corporations will receive "business tax deductions" as an incentive for supplying health care to their employees.


This is what Kucinich is talking about:

Nearly 8,000 doctors call for national health insurance
…
The doctors would put in place a single-payer system -- essentially an upgraded and expanded version of Medicare, the government health care program for the elderly and disabled.
…
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/08/12/national.insurance.ap/

[Desertrose]

35. Ok read your post...then read DK's plan

from article you cited...
"Of the Democratic presidential candidates, only Rep. Dennis Kucinich is advocating a single-payer system.

Americans spend $1.6 trillion on health care, which the doctors say is more than enough money to cover every American. The doctors contend that there will be at least $200 billion in administrative savings in a single-payer, national insurance plan. "

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/issue_universalhealth.htm

<snip>
Over time, the Kucinich plan will remove private insurance companies from the system -- along with their waste, paperwork, profits, excessive executive salaries, advertising, sales commissions, etc -- and redirect resources to actual treatment. Insurance companies do not heal or treat anyone, physicians and health practitioners do ...and thousands of physicians support a single-payer system because it reduces bureaucracy and shelters the doctor-patient relationship from HMO and insurance company encroachment.

Non-profit national health insurance will decrease total healthcare spending while providing more treatment and services -- through reductions in bureaucracy and cost-cutting measures such as bulk purchasing of prescriptions drugs. Funding will come primarily from existing government healthcare spending (more than $1 trillion) and a phased-in tax on employers of 7.7% (almost $1 trillion). The employers' tax is less than the 8.5% of payroll now paid on average by companies that provide private insurance.

This type of system -- privately-delivered health care, publicly financed -- has worked well in other countries, none of whom spend as much per capita on healthcare as the United States.

<snip>


sometimes increments isn't the best option...ever try to jump a gorge with two small jumps???

Peace
DR

[w4rma]

41. DR, I support single-payer, but Dems have been pushing it since 1947

And now we have a Republican Congress, a Republican judiciary and a Republican President. And to pass a single-payer health care program Dems would have to beat a filibuster in the Senate and fight the health care corporations that *will* be pumping millions of dollars in ads to oppose socializing their buisnesses.

IMHO, it's not going to happen right now. We need to strengthen the Democratic Party first.

[diamondsoul]

47. That's another reason I support Kucinich.

"And now we have a Republican Congress, a Republican judiciary and a Republican President."

I strongly believe nominating Kucinich would bring Democrats to the polls who wouldn't set foot in a voting booth for anyone else. In that single change to the voter turnout, we could easily take back Congress and the Presidency in one fell swoop. It wouldn't be the first time it's been done either.

If I'm right, single-payer will pass.

[JohnKleeb]

48. the next president will pick as many as 3 justices I am told

Hello Warren Court II, and may we ban the death penalty.

[genius]

37. This is not an attack this is a differenciation on health care.

Good for Kucinich.

[Darranar]

38. Kepp it up, Kucinich!

Dean isn't the far-left progressive many make him out to be. But he's better than the other 6 (don't let it become 7) candidates besides Kerry or Kucinich.

I'm talking purely about domestic issues, by the way. I'd vote for Dean over Kerry any day because of Kerry's stance on the iraq war.

[AP]

40. Wow. To paraphrase Bart Simpson. I knew that somebody, someday

from the left was going to take on Dean's corporatism, but I didn't know it was going to be Kucinich.

All weekend the media was tried to bate the Democrats (Lieberman and Kerry) into attacking Dean so to create more/tap into the devisiveness within the left. I can't believe Kucinich is the one to pick up this flag.

Now, will the media play this up? Or does it not fit into the script they've written for the way they want 2004 to turn out. They can't have the attack come from farther on the left, can they?

[newsguyatl]

43. just wondering

what is kucinich polling at now nationally? 1%, 2%?

what about kerry? :shrug:

whew, they both have a LOT of catching up to do... what better way to show true leadership than by attacking... very admirable indeed...

wow, and just look at who posted this thread... now that's a 'fair and balanced' person (he calls himself a journalist) if i've seen one...

[JohnKleeb]

44. Poll position doesnt matter and being a Dean supporter you should know tha

Kerry is doing well, and Kucinich well youre right but Jimmy Carter wasnt anywhere this point in time either. BTW I thought Dean was liked by Dean supporters by his willingness to attack the Democrat establishment I guess if Dennis Kucinich or another democrat Dean its not so ok. Sorry if I am being a jerk but I think hes right to do this.

[diamondsoul]

49. Dean is only polling at about 14%

himself, thanks. With a margin of undecideds ranging anywhere from 30-60+%, the whole damned thing is still wide open.

However I'll give you that NJ isn't someone to take seriously, so WTF are you doing coming into the thread and giving him the flame-fest he wants?

Once more, Kucinich INVITED DEAN TO DEBATE on the issue of healthcare. Try reading my post #4 upthread.

*on edit, added post #

[JohnKleeb]

50. cool for Dennis

He's better than many give him credit for.

[diamondsoul]

52. Not for much longer, John.

Not for much longer. :-)

Actually, I think it's funny. All these polls tossed at us to try to break our spirits down and get us to quit. All it took was one person looking at the actual numbers and adding them up to figure out the race has barely started.

Instead of upsetting me, they gave me some hope!

[JohnKleeb]

53. hope is what we need

OK diamond I plan to go to bed awfully soon.

[dpbrown]

55. It's fiscally irresponsible to do it other than the way Kucinich says

Take your pick of any other candidate's "tweaking" plan for covering people under the old (and failed) system of private health insurance.

Every single one of them propose some version of "take back Bush's tax cuts and use them on getting health insurance."

Which sounds fine, until you consider that those "tax cuts" were paying for some programs before they were cut to provide forced wealth shifting to the upper brackets. Even partially funding those programs as well as providing this handout to the corrupt private health insurance industry means taxes above the level they were at pre-Bush.

That means, in essence, that only Dennis Kucinich has a plan for getting everyone under the umbrella of single-payer universal coverage without being labelled a "tax-and-spend" Democrat, because he's finding the money in the waste of administrative costs and bloated CEO salaries, not in ephemeral, yet cure-all "rescinded tax cuts."

And that is not even taking into consideration that some of the tax credits/rebates actually do help people in the lower brackets (so candidates who say they are going to take back all of Bush's tax cuts are targeting the poor as well).

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[diamondsoul]

61. I notice there hasn't been any effort to refute you.

Now why can't people, who can't argue against that, see this is the way to go?

I really, really do not understand that.

[JohnKleeb]

62. because they are ironically being catious

Thats why diamond. This is something that Harry Truman wanted. Kucinich has something magical about him that the others dont and its not just issues to be honest, his vision for a peaceful USA is great.