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Dean says UN troops should have been used to take out Saddam!!!

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DJcairo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 02:55 PM
Original message
Dean says UN troops should have been used to take out Saddam!!!
WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT....WHAT UN TROOPS??

What a gaff!
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. so let me get this straight
you are saying the UN should not have been in charge of the operation in Iraq?
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. ummm....
perhaps he is refering to the fact that any attempt to take out sadam should have been an international force like from gulf war II (by the way for any who thinks this is a gaff...gulf war I was Iran v. Iraq....damn ethnocentric americans >:>...)
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. UN Troops
Iraq needs UN troops, says Downer
By John Kerin
September 2, 2003

UNITED Nations troops should be deployed in Iraq to help stabilise the troubled nation, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said yesterday.

Mr Downer said that Australia would back any new UN resolution to enable extra troops to be sent to Iraq, although no one was proposing a formal UN peacekeeping force.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7140335%255E421,00.html
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. It wasn't a "gaff" ..you don't know what you are talking about..
again!
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Maybe DJCairo meant un-troops or maybe he was thinking F-troop or
something.

Dean '04...
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clar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. That's right, crank out another
anti-Dean thread. You are a prolific little wabbit. You've been here what, 2 weeks? At least half of your posts have been nothing but broadsides against Dean and his supporters. Nice going.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. The maple syrup troops
They would have promised free maple syrup to Saddam and he would have magically surrendered.

I have no idea wtf Howard Dean is talking about anymore. He wanted to continue with inspections that wouldn't have been happening without the authorization. He said Saddam had nuclear weapons but he also 'knew' last September Bush was a liar. Now he says the UN should have taken Saddam out when he was saying there was no cause for war. Who the hell knows. He's evolving again I guess. :eyes:
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. You know that post doesn't make any sense, don't you?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Oh of course it doesn't
Only Howard Dean makes sense. I know, I know, I know. I am SOOOO sick of it.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Howard Dean
Never contradicts himself and sticks to his positions like glue. He never mispeaks. He never makes a mistake and if he does...well, he didn't. He has never changed his tune to suit his audience. He is without flaw and there are many people here who will quickly point that out for you.

Haven't you been paying ATTENTION here??

Jeez...some people....
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Wwagsthedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. What gaff?
Please provide a reference link.
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BJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. A link, please?
Edited on Mon Sep-01-03 03:18 PM by BJ
If not. What the Hell 'chu talkin'bout?!
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. He's talking about Multi-National Forces-
which are under the control of the UN. The same type of UN Forces which are currently serving in Sainai, Egypt.

The United Nations Peace-keeping Forces in the ME are not controlled by the US government, though we control the rotation of our soldiers to and from the region. They carry no weapons and are meant to be a show that the members of the United Nations will enforce Peace Resolutions with military presence of necessary.

Unfortunately for Dr. Dean, it's highly unlikely that UN members would commit to stationing military forces inside Iraq for the purpose of forcing compliance with resolutions other than Peace Treaties. Since the UN Inspection team was convinced that Hussein was complying with the resolutions there was no need for UN Froces to be deployed.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. UN troops are indeed armed
and can certainly open fire. It depends on the rules of engagement the Security council...of which the US is a member....sets for them, and it varies from situation to situation depending on what is needed.

France, Germany and Russia proposed a UN force in Iraq, deployed all over the country, rather than just a few inspectors.

The US said no, and invaded.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Thanks for the correction.
My only experience with UN forces was the MFO in Sainai, and neither of the two men in my family carried weapons while serving there.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Dean has had many waffling stances on this issue
Salon: On the campaign trail with the un-Bush
Salon (possibly in its death throes) pulls out a terrific profile of Howard Dean, the horse I'm backing for the Democratic nomination.

I have been concerned about his foreign policy stance. He's distinguished himself as the most anti-war candidate extant. But let's see how he says he would do it:

"s I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.
Easy to say at this late date, but imagine if we'd gone to the UN in September with a timetable, backed with a clear threat of unilateral action. I think things would have gone rather differently


http://www.howardsmusings.com/2003/02/20/salon_on_the_campaign_trail_with_the_unbush.html

This is also refereed to by a National Review article (unfotunately conservative, but not neo-con)


I would not normally cite the National Review, as they are definitely not known for fair and balanced reporting, but Jim Geraghty has the most complete list of Dean's recent statements on Iraq, and why some describe him as incoherent:



On January 31, Dean told Ron Brownstein of the Los Angeles Times that "if Bush presents what he considered to be persuasive evidence that Iraq still had weapons of mass destruction, he would support military action, even without U.N. authorization."

And then on Feb. 20, Dean told Salon.com that "if the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice."

But a day later, he told the Associated Press that he would not support sending U.S. troops to Iraq unless the United Nations specifically approves the move and backs it with action of its own. "They have to send troops," he said.

Four days later on PBS's News Hour with Jim Lehrer, Dean said United Nations authorization was a prerequisite for war. "We need to respect the legal rights that are involved here," Dean said. "Unless they are an imminent threat, we do not have a legal right, in my view, to attack them."

http://www.topdog04.com/000071.html

But Dean, even as Governor is said to have relished not being able to be pinned down on issues and as being vague on EVERYTHING, in order to avoid being criticized for any stance he may have taken.

This is recently noticable on DU for when Kucinich Brought up Deans stance on raising the Social Security age, Dean lied adn said he never said any such thing and was slammed in the media when they brought up all of the times since 1995 in which he stated he was considering the idea. On DU we saw every possible definition of the word "entertain' regarding Deans statements, but it quieted down a few days later when Dean said he was wrong anda apologized for the statements about raising the retirement age, But the real point is lost. Dean lied in from of millions when he state that he NEVER SAID that he would raise the retirement age to 70, which is exactly what he said he would entertain.

It is interesting that the Washington Post is now talking about examining Dean more closely becasue of his changing positions on EVERY issue. After he apologized to Edwards about lying about Edwards stance on Iraq, and refused to do the same for Kerry because "Kerry Waffles on the issue of Iraq" this is very very fair.

A a matter of fact, on TV today, Dean was being hammered again by an interviewer about his continuially changing stance. For the next five monthes expect that to be the tone of all of Deans interviews. Unless he pulls a George Bush and starts demanding questions in advance. Dean rose to the level he is at NOT by having any firm stance on anything, but by attacking all of the other candidates.

And it is a karminc event that could only occur in a Greek play for Dean to be the vctim of his own methods.

Kucinich today without mentioning Dean but by refering to another candidate who is a doctor, pointed out all of the probems with Deans plan. That he wants to keep the broken health system intact.

This is only LABOR DAY, when all of the serious politics start.

Dean will beb attacked day after day after day by all of the candidates and the media. I would say after his early campaign attacks on others, it is only just.
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acerbic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Propaganda analysis:
There's a reference to a legitimate article from a non-partisan source actually reporting what Dean is saying and then to a hit piece from a pro-Edwards site CLAIMING that Dean is saying something.

The rather obvious and understandable difference between reality and CLAIMS by opponents is desperately used as "proof" that Dean is "waffling". Nothing new there...
Just :think:
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. I know you were looking hard for a gaff by HD, but you are wrong here.
Sorry I ruined your day.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Shouldn't it be the UN enforcing UN resolutions?
Makes sense to me.

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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. Tucker said this, not Dean.
Are the Kerry people around here in cohoots with the GOP or something? :silly:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. key words "should have been used"
they weren't,hence there are no UN troops.Not a gaff,just another desperate attempt to bash Dean :eyes:
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. youre fair I like that
BTW I like Kucinich above Dean because Dennis not only knew the war was legally wrong but was morally wrong as well. But youre right, I do like how you try to be fair fork.
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jbw121 Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Dean's experience
Howard Dean is not prepared to be commander-in-chief.

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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. He was a 5-term governor
Our greatest President (Clinton) had less experience.

Can you clarify your statement???
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acerbic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kerry says that all hamsters and pet rabbits in the whole country
...will be rounded up and sent to his python farm if he is elected. I won't give any clues where and when he said that but just trust me: he says exactly that. What a gaff! :-)
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Get it right. Kerry said sent to his pylon farm not python. God why be so
venomous?? And it was 'rare bits' not rabbits. Jeeezus Christ!!!!

Dean '04...

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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. Political assassination is wrong
We shouldn't "take out" anyone and neither should the U.N.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. BTW
In addition to the other examples already sited of UN troops there is the directly relevant example of the Korean conflict. When the Russian ambassador to the UN stormed out the UN Security Council authorized the UN to send a force to Korea to kick the invading North Koreans out. While the majority were US troops (it was only a few years after WW2) there were Brits, Canadians, Aussies, and New Zealanders among others. It would have been nice if you had done any thinking before posting.
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