Will this have any ramifications?

[ModerateMiddle]

Disclaimer - I support John Kerry for President. I think he's the right man at the right time to fix everything that has been going wrong, very wrong, over the past 2 1/2 years in this country. I would not like to see Dean be the nominee, but I will most certainly vote for him if he is. I will probably work harder to get him to change some of his positions than I would work to get him elected, but I will definitely vote for the Dem nominee - regardless of who it is - even Holy Joe.

However, I, like so many other people these days, am watching Howard Dean's campaign and wondering what it means. He obviously has a huge internet following, and it has translated into 3d support as well.

But I read The New Republic's online primary and they just posted this:

DEAN'S NOT SHARING
by Jonathan Chait

Candidate: Howard Dean
Category: General Likeability
Grade: D

Those who are pro-Dean, or at least anti-anti-Dean, argue that the cult following he's built will benefit the Democratic Party even if Dean doesn't win the nomination. But Dean himself argues the contrary. Commenting on Wesley Clark's possible candidacy in an interview with L.A. Weekly, Dean explained:

"It's going to be very hard to start late," he says, "and think you're going to do well in Iowa and New Hampshire. It's going to be incredibly hard. I mean, we've already got 39,000 people working for us all around the country ... I really do believe--and I think about this--I want to get this nomination, and if I don't ... these kids are not transferrable. I can't just go out and say, 'Okay, so I didn't win the nomination, so go ahead and vote for the Democrats.' They're not going to suddenly just go away. That's not gonna happen."

Notice that Dean is not only predicting that his supporters wouldn't vote for another Democratic nominee, he's suggesting that he won't even encourage them to do so. Does anybody still want to argue that Dean isn't the Democratic Party's greatest gift to George W. Bush?

http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=650

What does this mean?

[King Bush II]

1. i think he seems

very arrogant. thats one of the reasons why ive shifted my endorsement to kucinich

[ProudToBeLiberal]

2. he's not arrogant

he's being practical.

[King Bush II]

3. how

by saying if i don't win don't vote democrat?

[TSIAS]

4. I don't think he's saying that

I read it as saying that he'll tell them to vote for the nominee, but they may not actually do so. I'm pretty certain he'll publicly endorse the nominee.

[carpetbagger]

13. There's endorsing the nominee and there's doing it w/ heart

If Howard Dean doesn't think he can win over his supporters to continue the fight to defeat George Bush, it seems to me he doesn't have a whole lot of confidence in his abilities or in the effort he's planning to put out.

I usually don't say bad things about other candidates, but that attitude sucks.

[diamondsoul]

17. Wow. I'm a little stunned by this one, honestly.

"I read it as saying that he'll tell them to vote for the nominee, but they may not actually do so. I'm pretty certain he'll publicly endorse the nominee."

I think you're right about what he meant, but lemme tell ya, it still scares me. I'm looking ahead to after the nomination and wondering just how hard Dean will rally his people- you devoted Dean supporters- to vote for the nominee.

I don't know if I can state this as clearly as I mean to without coming across as insulting, but I'm going to try, so bear with me please.

The way this statement strikes me is that Dean wouldn't work as hard at getting Bushco out of the WH as he will work to get the nomination. By that I mean, maybe he won't throw his FULL support in behind the nominee if it isn't him. Will he go out and make appearances with the nominee so that his supporters in the primary are comforted and given a reason to really consider voting for the Dem candidate? Will he issues regular statements to his supporters endorsing the nominee and encouraging his supporters to follow his lead?

Do you see where I'm going with this at all? There's a tone to it that makes me very uncomfortable.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

7. what

you're twisting the truth. He said he couldn't tell what his supporters to do. We supporters do have our own mind if you didn't know. Also llok at the Al Gore supporters. Al gore couldn't tell them to stop...he tried but they keep on going on

[JohnKleeb]

5. I am not sure why I switched from Dean to DK

I do think it was because Dean was the only anti war candiate but I read about DK, and you know what I loved what I read. I have to admit one of the main reasons why I to support Kucinich is the issues but I have my reasons, one that I appreciate a guy who grew up so poor yet has made a great difference. And I took the road less taken by and I support Dennis Kucinich thats K-u-c-i-n-i-c-h it took me a little while to find out too. Thank you Robert Frost :).

[Rose Siding]

6. Well, it's tnr BS

Dean has already said he'd throw support to the nominee if it isn't him.

You can tell it's crap by the use of the word "cult" to define the "campaign". A cult is either religeous or a devotion to a fad. A Democratic candidate and his rallying of the people to participate in politics is democracy, not a cult.

[Mairead]

16. I certainly take anything from TNR cum grano salis, but what about

the quote? Do you think the elisions deform the quote inappropriately? Because I can't see how you can believe it sounds good or even innocuous, on its face. Do you have access to the whole, un-elided text so that we can compare?

[virtualobserver]

8. What Dean is talking about there is .......

that he has all of these committed volunteers who have poured their hearts into his campaign. And if he doesn't win the nomination, they will still be so connected to him that he won't be able to just dump them and tell them to support someone else. He is talking about their emotional state.

[dfong63]

9. i'll tell you what it means

What does this mean?

what it means to me: if this obviously biased writer can't find anything more serious to bash Dean over (than this nebulous and completely subjective quality of "general likeability"), then Dean must be on h*ll of a strong candidate.

so did the writer apply the same criterion equally to all the other candidates? did he ask whether Clark would "share" his own supporters with Dean if the tables were turned? i didn't think so.

[Old and In the Way]

10. I'd hope that all candidates would pledge to support whomever

wins the nomination and would strongly recommend that their campaign workers do the same.

I would hope we all recognize that no candidate (nor his ego) is larger than the needs of the entire body of Democrats and that we will require both discipline and cohesiveness if we are to have a chance of turning this idiot-n-theif and his band of merry plunderers from the office that they stole in 2000.

[helleborient]

19. Dean Will Do This...

But we need more than just Democrats to win this election...Democrats do not number in excess of 50% of the electorate...I'm not sure any non-nominee can successfully tell all of the non-Democrats what to do.

[Philosophy]

11. It would be stupid at this point

for any of the candidates that have a chance to even hint at endorsing another. That's just not good politics.

[Old and In the Way]

14. Not sure I agree.

This isn't business as usual, I think. And I've voted in 7 presidential elections.

If all the candidates are truly committed to getting rid of Bush, I cannot understand why they all cannot pledge to support the ultimate nominee.

[sandnsea]

21. Edwards did (?)

When Dean and Kerry were spitting at each other during the first debate, I think it was Edwards who stood up and said any one of the candidates would make a better President than George W. Bush. So yes, any and every candidate most certainly should be behind whoever wins the primary, right now. This comment just adds to my concerns and I'll leave it at that.

[pansypoo53219]

12. PEOPLE PEOPLE!

just keep your eyes on the MAIN FUCKING GOAL! getting the chimp OUT of the WHITE HOUSE before we crumble into a USSR 3rd world state.

[sandnsea]

15. This is really an interesting statement

I don't know what it means and I think I'll just leave it sit. I did want to try to put it in context of the actual article, but that didn't help either. But here's the article, it is kind of an overview of the campaign over the last few months, this quote is at the very end.

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/41/features-wolf.php

[helleborient]

18. What Would You Expect Crossover Republicans To Do?

What I read as part of it...is that Dean does recognize the number of Republicans and Independents that are a part of his campaign. If he does not win the nomination of the Democratic Party, it's not going to be easy for him or any candidate to hold those individuals.

Who else as a nominee has a significant portion of their support from these people?

Put another way...if Wesley Clark announced as a Republican...and he lost the nomination to Bush, would those of you who are Democrats or lean that way vote for Bush? Or would you head back "home" to the Democratic Party?

This was certainly an issue in both of Bill Clinton's campaign...those independent swing voters were real ("Reagan Democrats" or whatever you wanted to call them). A number of them switched back or didn't vote when Al Gore ran...it was Clinton who was able to keep them in his camp.

I do believe Howard Dean has some of that crossover appeal and talented campaigners like Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton wouldn't have held their crossover support if they were not the nominee either.

[loyalsister]

22. Thank you!

Jeez that statement was misinterpreted. Of course he'll support the Democratic nominee! He's just no idiot.
He just knows damn well that the gun nuts who have finally decided they'll vote their interests for a Dem and are supporting him aren't going to support someone who supports strict gun control laws if he isn't the nominee.
I do think he said it in a way that is overstated, however. I think that people who are Democrats at heart who have been motivated by him will continue to be motivated even if he isn't the nominee.

[CWebster]

20. Why Dean matters to the party's future

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=3381331

Why Democrats support Dean still acknowleging reservations:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0903-14.htm

The potential they see that makes the difference:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0903-02.htm

[zekeson]

23. Lets judge him by what he does when the time comes

I am not firmly in the Dean camp. At this point I have a limb in each of four camps, Dean being one. Some things Dean has said have been mistakes and he has had to offer a few apologies. Kerry has had to do the same. Kucinich, had he any media to speak of, has probably said things out of line. I think this particular statement is a little too slim for everyone to jump on. There is enough ambiguity that you can't be certain what was meant. Lets wait until/if the time comes before we jump all over him.

Dems need to stay united to defeat * and Co. in 2004.

[DrFunkenstein]

24. My Two Pennies

I've seen elsewhere that Dean has said something contradictory to this. If Kerry did the same thing, I'm sure a few chumps around here would call it waffling. I don't. I give him the benefit of the doubt. At the same time, I notice alot of Dean supporters pretending he didn't say this:

I can't just go out and say, 'Okay, so I didn't win the nomination, so go ahead and vote for the Democrats.'

I mean, he said it. No way around it. Should we focus on it incessantly like Kerry's "likable" quote? I won't.