The Note berates national press for its treatment of Dean

[DJcairo]

We have no clue what will cause Howard Dean to ever be held to the same standard for consistency, clarity, and accuracy as the other leading Democratic presidential candidates, but whatever it's going to take hasn't kicked in yet.


Saturday, standing side by side with Gray Davis, Dean asserted that the White House was involved in orchestrating and pushing the California recall effort. Later, under questioning, Dean admitted that he had no evidence but that it simply was the kind of thing he believed the White House habitually does.


The Note is breathless.

[CWebster]

1. Sounds right to me

.

[RogueTrooper]

2. Do you have a link for that?

and as to the scrutiny, standards etc. Mwahahahaha!

Catch us if you can. :evilgrin:

DJ, do you have a problem with Dean standing shoulder to shoulder with Davis?

[DJcairo]

7. No but making "vast right wing conspiracy" type comments

got Hillary into a real hullabaloo and doesn't sound very presidential. it's amazing Dean gets off the hook. If Kerry or Gep said stuff like that the press would go ape about how he can make generalizations about his opponents without any proof. They hold those guys to a different standard because they are Congressmen.

[RogueTrooper]

10. Nope

In Florida they stole and election.
In Washington they got the Supreme Court to rubber stamp that theft.

The evidence is there, for all to see.

In Colorado and Texas they have been gerrymandering electoral districts. There is evidence. Particulary in Texas..

Now, in California, they are trying to remove a Democratic govenor.

The proof is in the pattern. It is time for Democrats to stand up and be proud to be Democrats again. Calling out this Administration, for what it is, is the place to start.

[CMT]

3. I stand by what Dean said

You honestly believe that the white house has no hand in this thing?

Today's note also says that Terry A's assault on Bush regarding comments made in 2000 against McCain are innaccurate. Looks like the Note is looking out for the pukes today.

[Larkspur]

4. Who called Rep Issa to back out of the Governor's race?

It wasn't no Repub party hack. It had to be from someone with enough clout to tell a guy who paid $2 million of his own money to toss away the best chance he had of becoming governor. There is no way one of Issa's peers told this knucklehead to step aside in favor of another. It had to be from somebody high up who could order Issa to stand aside. Remember, Gov. Jeb Bush visited California 3 weeks prior to the Recall petition succeeding.

[sfecap]

5. Did I miss the statement from Kerry

standing up for elections and other Democrats?

I guess I must have...

[RogueTrooper]

6. I believe the consultants are still looking at the polls

They will most probably get back to Grey on October the 8th.

[blm]

28. Nobody polls more than Dean.

You should be careful who you accuse. And Dean is the only one doing PUSHPOLLING, the most VILE form of polling.

[dsc]

29. I have asked

over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. For a link to a source that does one of two things.

A) accuses Dean of doing what is standardly referred to as Push polling. That is some combination of polling about untrue things or polling very large numbers of people.

or

B) has an expert that defines push polling in a way that matches what you have posted.

When I couldn't back up what I said I apologized to you in 24 minutes. No acknowledgment from you BTW. You, on the otherhand, repeat this without nary a thought.

[blm]

33. THIS is pushpolling whether you acknowledge it now or not.

When you first saw it you called it pushpolling light. You said it was still wrong. Now, you're going to go Doberman because you KNOW it's wrong and proves what a bad character Dean has.

Dean's polling reinforces negative perceptions of his opponents while in the act of conducting a poll for his campaign. PUSHPOLLING to ANY honest person.

"First phone attack

Straight-talking Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean is testing his attack message in Iowa. Political operatives say Dean's phone polling is probing for weaknesses in support for Sens. John Edwards and John Kerry and Rep. Dick Gephardt. For rookie pol Edwards, it's about experience. For Gephardt, it's his alliance with Bush on key issues. Questions about Kerry test Iowans' reaction to his vote backing the war in Iraq."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/archive/030512/12whisplead.php

[dsc]

43. That is not what I said

I said, that it could be push polling light and I specificly asked in real time for exactly what I am asking for now. You know it, I know it, and everyone who read that thread knows it.

[blm]

46. Get the script from the campaign.

I have no access to the campaign but many here do. Why hasn't anyone produced the script that was used to refute the charge.

You said it "could be" pushpolling light, and that you felt it was still wrong, as I recall.

You all want to change the subject and put the greater burden on me, but that little paragraph from US News contains ample evidence that Dean is reinforcing negative perceptions of his opponents while conducting a poll for his campaign. PUSHPOLLING

[DJcairo]

8. Kerry has spoken out quite consitantly on the recall in CA

saying it is a "miscarriage of Democracy"


yuck!

[RogueTrooper]

11. Well,

that is not enough.

[DJcairo]

12. But if he ran out to Cali that would be copying right?

[RogueTrooper]

13. Of course

damned if you do, damned if you don't. :evilgrin:

Should have got off his ass and got down there first. That is the real problem. He has let Dean define the campaign again.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

16. And Bingo was his name-o.

[Jim Sagle]

15. No, I do believe Kerry told us to "get over it" and to

"stop crying in our teacups."

[DrFunkenstein]

30. No That Was Al Gore

When he dropped out.

[clar]

9. DJ, For heaven's sake

I believe I read that you are a Columbia U. student. For heaven's sake lad, learn to spell, bone up on grammar. Normally, it is not my wont to castigate people for either of the above failings. However, you have now posted a significant number of error filled messages. If you're just being sloppy, take a moment or two to proof what you've written. The more disturbing thought is that your writing skills are as limited as they appear to be at first glance. In any case, what you have to say is diminished by expressing it sloppily.

beraded = berated

[AWD]

14. Flame bait.....

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Expecting anything less?

The archives tell a wonderful story.

[AWD]

18. Per an agreement...

...with a very well-respected DUer (his name rhymes with PearlG), I promised not to attack the originator of this thread.

I do however, agree with your assessment of the situation.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. btw,

Heard a nice promo for you on Guy James. Hope it helped.

[AWD]

21. Really?

Wow...good old Guy James.

I'd like to hear that.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Thursday or Friday's show.

I think they have it in his archives.


Here's the nutshell version:

James(gravelly voice): I hope y'all will take a look at my friend's website. He's running for Congress. He needs your help. Need to kick those fascist whores out of Washington." And then he handed out your web address.(OK, I added the "fascist whores" part but you get the idea).

[kang]

20. Life isn't fair (neither is politics)

I read this thread and saw the JFK picture and it reminded me of his quote. Another of my favorites is Bob Kerrey saying that there is no "deserving" in politics, you get what you get. Whining about it will only make you look...like a whiner (I'm really articulate can't you tell?).

Dean's getting hammered by the media for any minor adjustment or correction he makes on positions because (a) they're bored with the Democratic field and need something to do and he's the new hot candidate; and (b) Dean more than any other candidate, he has campaigned as the McCain-like straight talker.

I personally don't think he changes his position or lies, I just think he makes alot of off-the-cuff answers to questions. This is probably something he's going to have to get better at if he doesn't want media (Russert-type) accusations that he's changing his position.

[sandnsea]

22. The Note berated McAuliffe and Cruz too

I don't find it particularly appealing to use slander pieces to go after one of our own candidates. Dean is absolutely right on the California recall and he should get everybody's support for what he said. The Republicans usurping legal elections is half the message in that campaign. It doesn't do any good for any Democrat to try to lessen that message by helping them go ater Dean.

[AWD]

23. A-freakin-MEN

It doesn't do any good for any Democrat to try to lessen that message by helping them go ater Dean.



Hear, hear!

[w4rma]

24. Gov. Ann Richards seems to agree with Gov. Dean on the recall

…
KING: Issa. Yes, he financed the whole thing and then quit.

RICHARDS: Yes. He spent 2 million bucks getting the names for the recall so he could run, and the White House calls him and tells him he can't run. And so it's just 2 million bucks for nothing. I thought that...

KING: You hear it was the White House that told him not to run?

RICHARDS: Yes, that was what the word was here, that the White House told him no. This was not going to make. And so...

KING: The White House is kind of staying out of this, aren't they?

RICHARDS: Well, don't kid yourself. They may not be on the front page, but believe me, they got an oar in that water.

KING: They want Arnold to win?

RICHARDS: Well, I think they'd like to have any Republican they could possibly have because it would help them a lot in the presidential election next year to be able to have a Republican in the governor's chair in California.
…
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/17/lkl.00.html

[AWD]

25. Quick!

Call the note! The media hasn't been mean to Ann Richards yet!

[DrFunkenstein]

31. White House Wanted A Dem Running The CA Fiasco

The GOP will never take Cali, but it would serve as a great example of what Dems do with a budget. With Arnie in the house, this strategy is nullified. If Dems win, it is a humiliating defeat.

They may have forced Issa out to limit GOP options on the ballot, but they certainly didn't want the recall.

[clar]

38. C'mon, the WH has a lot to gain

with a Republican in office in CA. bush can use it as a springboard, bopping in and speaking side by side with a repub gov. He can dish out some favors and force the dem nominee to spend big bucks.

[w4rma]

39. IMHO, it's obvious need to read up on this DrFunkenstein

And you should be careful of that knee jerk reaction to Dean that you have.

[MercutioATC]

26. California is the 6th largest economy on the planet...why is it so hard

to believe that an administration that's manipulated the American public on numerous occasions would see California's value politically and covertly aid a recall of that state's Democratic Governor?

[LuminousX]

27. I would call Karl Rove and idiot

it the White House wasn't in California pulling some strings. Good god, California is one of the lynchpin states for the Democrats. If the GOP could get an edge there, it could mean the election.

[DrFunkenstein]

34. How's This For Consistency?

"Dean turns out to be a flagrantly political anti-politician. As his campaign gains altitude, he seems to change a position a week. ...The question is: How many of Dean's positions are negotiable? As victory becomes a possibility, how much integrity will he compromise to win? (Joe Klein, Op-Ed, "The Temptation Of Howard Dean," Time, 9/15/03)

----

"Dean repeatedly declined to say whether he thinks the United States should withdraw its troops immediately from Iraq, as some vocal war opponents urge. Responding to questions before and during the event, Dean declined to call for the troops' return, saying he didn't know the implications for geopolitics and soldiers' safety and wasn't privy to intelligence on the ground in Iraq. 'I didn't get us into this,' Dean said. 'Unfortunately, I'm not president now and I can't get us out of this.'" (Joanna Weiss, "Dean Ducks Prescription For Quitting Iraq," The Boston Globe, 3/27/03)

"If the President thinks our troops will be out in 18 months, he is smoking something he forgot about when he was at Yale." (Rebecca Cook, "Howard Dean Rallies Supporters In Seattle," The Associated Press, 5/15/03)

"We can't leave Iraq. We can't pull out, because if we do that, chaos ensues or else a fundamentalist Shiite regime may arise with undo Iranian influence, both of which would be more dangerous than Saddam Hussein." (Howard Dean On CNN's "Crossfire Goes Inside Politics," 9/1/03)

"We need more troops. They're going to be foreign troops, as they should have been in the first place, not American troops. Ours need to come home." (Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Albuquerque, NM, 9/4/03)

"Ultimately, over a period of time, assuming you can get the cooperation of the Europeans and others, I would like to reduce by half the number of troops the Americans have in Iraq and increase dramatically so that we get up to a troop strength of between 170,000 and 200,000 in Iraq." (NBC's "Today Show," 9/8/03)

[RogueTrooper]

35. You are selectivly quoting DrF.

Those last two quotes were in the context of the soldiery being replaced with mulit-national troops.

[DJcairo]

36. Right but shoudl they come home or should there be more of them?

Does Dean even know? Does he even care if he makes sense on this issue?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

37. Pretty clear if you saw him speak today

Get UN troops in to alleviate US troops. His words were "failure is not an option" when asked what if he couldn't get the UN to help us. It's clear that his priority is to bring home US troops as soon as possible, but not to leave Iraq before it is stabilized. See the interview on the Today show (sorry, too lazy to look up the link) from this morning. It's a rather excellent interview, IMO. Loved how he brought up that Bush keeps talking about terrorism and Iraq in the same breath, which is leading people to believe Saddam is the 'terrorist' we are after.

BTW kudos to Kerry on Hardball today. He did an excellent job, as well (even mentioned OBL).

[Rooktoven]

40. I think he is saying

that America forces should be a percentage of a multi-national force. Said multi-national force should belarger than the current (American-dominated) "coalition" force.

Did he have to say "America should have 50,000 troops in a 250,000 troop multi-national force?

That sounds about right...

[DrFunkenstein]

41. What Country Does Dean Plan on Getting Troops From?

This is an honest question. According to NPR this morning, it seems that none of the European countries are willing to commit many, if any troops to Iraq.

[DJcairo]

42. Good question--

The numbers Dean stated sounded arbitrary to me.

[polpilot]

44. He'll consult with Kerry and Bush and see if they had a 'secret plan'

when they promoted/voted for this war. I'm sure Kerry didn't just vote for open ended U.S. involvement in this.

Dean '04...

[DrFunkenstein]

45. Always Illuminating

Rarely informative.

Next time, try answering the question.

[stickdog]

48. And that fact has nothing whatsoever to do with the current administration

Now does it?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

49. I'll answer that....

Dean has said (as have many others) that we should bring in multi-national troops, esp. Arabic-speaking. This should go through the UN. Unfortunately Bush has pissed off our allies, esp. Europe, and they aren't exactly jumping in to help. This is part of the "miserable failure" Gep was referring to.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to have this as our goal; keep working with the UN to craft a resolution, to get other troops into Iraq and bring ours home. Bring the total # of forces up, but bring ours down so that they can come home.

The longer term solution is to vote that Miserable Failure out of the WH and elect Dean or someone else in his place who can and will repair our foreign relationships.

Sorry, almost lost my breakfast; on the TV in the background, Wolfowitz is saying "We don't start a job we can't finish." Ugh.

[stickdog]

47. I've been waiting breathlessly for the media to hold Dubya to ANY

standard whatsoever for consistency, clarity, and accuracy.

BTW, what standard for consistency, clarity, and accuracy has Lieberman been held to in his recent attacks against Dean?

I'm breathless.

[blm]

50. That's how I have felt for 7 months.

No real scrutiny of Dean by much of the press, just repeating that he is the liberal antiwar candidate who is the ONLY one attacking Bush.