Joe Trippi responds to Kerry's debate challenge

[RevolutionStartsNow]

www.blogforamerica.com

Response to Jim Jordan

Jim Jordan
Campaign Manager
Kerry for President

Dear Jim:

I received and reviewed your letter inviting Governor Dean to participate in a series of one- on-one debates with Senator Kerry at the exclusion of the other seven candidates running for the Democratic nomination.

As you know, there have been and will continue to be numerous forums and debates that will provide the opportunity for each of the candidates to discuss the issues, to debate their ideas and address their differences with Governor Dean – or any other candidate -- directly. In fact, just last week, Representative Kucinich highlighted the difference between his position and that of Dick Gephardt on the pre-emptive war in Iraq. Specifically, he said, “I just want to say that when you were standing there in the Rose Garden with the president and you were giving him advice, I wish that you would have told him no, because as our Democratic leader, your position helped to inform mightily the direction of the war.”

As you may recall, during the debate in New Mexico, Senator Joe Lieberman challenged Governor Dean’s position on trade, saying – correctly or incorrectly – that it would lead to a “Dean Depression.”

Senator Kerry will continue to have ample opportunity to debate the differences between himself and Governor Dean during the upcoming candidate forums in New York, Arizona and Michigan.

Jim, there are nine candidates seeking the Democratic nomination for President – each with his or her own ideas and policies and each with the goal of defeating George Bush next November. For ANY candidate to suggest otherwise is presumptuous.

Governor Dean’s campaign has been about returning democracy to the hands of the American people. We believe it is up to the American people to narrow the field – through the democratic nominating process – and not for any one candidate to subvert this process simply because “that suits us.”

We trust the American people to decide what suits them.

Sincerely,

Joe Trippi

[molly]

1. I guess this means "NO"

[dsc]

5. yeah

unlike Kerry, Dean trusts us to decide who the nominee will be.

[joeybee12]

2. Great Letter!

I used to like Kerry, but I'm starting to loathe him--just another Washington insider who doesn't grasp how really, really, really pissed off people are right now.

[Cha]

4. As I said on the other thread "I see your point"!

[janx]

7. I posted it in the other thread and called attention, on the Dean blog,

to this portion of the letter. It is so funny I can barely type!!!

As you know, there have been and will continue to be numerous forums and debates that will provide the opportunity for each of the candidates to discuss the issues, to debate their ideas and address their differences with Governor Dean – or any other candidate -- directly. In fact, just last week, Representative Kucinich highlighted the difference between his position and that of Dick Gephardt on the pre-emptive war in Iraq. Specifically, he said, “I just want to say that when you were standing there in the Rose Garden with the president and you were giving him advice, I wish that you would have told him no, because as our Democratic leader, your position helped to inform mightily the direction of the war.”

!!!

Oh my God this is funny!!

[valniel]

82. You, like I, probably followed the exchange. Here is the transcript

Kerry just responded to Dean's invitation!

SCHIEFFER: Most people thought at this point that you would be the front-runner. You are not. Howard Dean seems to be lead--be leading both in Iowa, where you are now, and in--in New Hampshire, where those early primaries are coming. You have said some pretty tough things about him, and he said the other day, when asked why you kind of went easy on him during the debate in New Mexico, he said, 'I wish he would say to my face what he says behind my back.' Have you decided to go easy on him now?

Sen. KERRY: Well, first of all--first of all, Bob, we're doing very well. These races are not decided in August. It was always clear there would be a race, and I welcome it. Secondly, with respect to the comment you just made, I welcome Governor Dean's challenge. If he wants a challenge and he wants us to go face-to-face, I accept. Let's get together, let's have a debate, and let's talk about the real issues for the country and show people the differences between us. And maybe you want to moderate that. We can do it in Iowa. We can do it in New Hampshire. I'm perfectly willing to do it. In those one-minute exchanges with nine people on the stage, it's very, very difficult to really get at and explain the differences between candidates. So I welcome the opportunity to do that one-on-one with Governor Dean, and I'm glad he wants to do it.

[janx]

119. Kerry must have been tripping! But was this spontaneous,

or did his campaign manager advise him to do something like this if the chance arose?

?!

[LizW]

3. Good job, Joe

It would be insulting to the other Democratic candidates for any two to square off in a one-on-one debate at any time before the primaries. I'm glad the Dean campaign declined.

[sandnsea]

6. Get out the maple syrup

Waffle waffle waffle. Says one thing, means another. Not surprised. Howard wants to deliver little potshots and whine when somebody points out his failings; but when he has to face it one one one, he waffles.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

9. Huh?

He waffled on this letter?

As for "delivering little potshots", this letter was in response to the Kerry challenge for a 1-on-1 debate.

If Kerry wants to challenge Dean, let him do it in the next scheduled debate. I'm sure Howard will be happy to respond. :)

[sandnsea]

21. Yep, and Dean waffled

Like he always does when he's challenged to back up his rhetoric. And when Kerry decides to really let loose on Dean, no whining.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

29. What waffle?

Kerry is welcome to challenge Dean, to his face, in any scheduled debate. This is what Dean was talking about. It was after the NM forum, Dean was asked if he was surprised that Kerry hadn't attacked him.

However I suspect that now Kerry has no choice but to attack Dean directly in the next debate. I promise not to whine. :)

[sandnsea]

32. I'll hold you to it

and look forward to John Kerry turning Howard into whipped cream so he can add it to his waffles.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

35. LOL, but you know what?

No matter how the next debate goes, the Dean people are going to say "Howard kicked ass!" and the Kerry people are going to say "Kerry wiped the floor with him!" All a matter of perception, I suppose.

Edit: PS: Wine doesn't go with waffles anyway. I prefer OJ.

[renie408]

99. ROFL

Ain't that truth!!

[Nazgul35]

123. I don't see why Dean should help Kerry land...

his Hail Mary pass to get back in the race....

And Dean is right! Why won't Kerry challange Dean directly in the debate like Liberman and Kucinich have? Perhaps he likes others fighting his battles for him? You tell me? Is this the guy we want going head to head with Bush....if he's afraid to directly challange Dean in the next debate?

Let's see what Kerry does in the next debate....if he sits by and does nothing...than he's just talking smack...Kerry knows he couldn't agree to this cause than all the Dems would be talking about Dean's presumption...

[dsc]

10. more dishonesty

yet again Dean basheres can't be honest so they choose to be dishonest. It is crystal clear from the context of both the original Dean statement and from the letter quoted here what Dean meant. Yet this poster choose to be dishonest. If their candidate is so bad they can't be honest why support that candidate?

[DrFunkenstein]

13. What Exactly Did He Mean?

Did it sound like this:

"I just wish he had given me a chance to respond to all that stuff — the zero experience on foreign affairs, the NRA stuff, the tax cut stuff," Dean said.

"I would have liked to have responded to that in person," Dean said, relishing the thought of getting mouthy with Kerry.

[LuminousX]

24. It means

within the context of the provided debate forums, Kerry doesn't challenge Dean on those issues. Whether that is correct or not, I really don't care.

For Kerry to challenge Dean to 1 on 1 debates at this time shows he feels he is behind Dean and needs to share the stage with Dean to raise his own stature.

This is how political debates have always worked. The Front Runner never calls for debates.

[valniel]

93. It means that Dean does not want a face to face discussion with Kerry?

'I wish he would say to my face what he says behind my back' is just empty talk. Dean really does not want any face to face time with Kerry!

[sandnsea]

94. There's been LOTS of debate sponsors

The one on Sept 4 was the first one sponsored by the DNC. All the debates this summer were sponsored by various groups and candidates attend or don't attend, it's their personal decision. Just like the Steak Fry yesterday. Lots of events taking place, not every candidate gets invited to every event either. All of the Democratic candidates haven't even been invited to the DNC debates. So there isn't anything out of line about Senator Kerry agreeing to Howard's demand to speak to his face and have a debate.

[dsc]

96. Please site one debate

that a candidate hasn't been invited to. To my knowledge there have been no such instances. It is one thing if a candidate wishes, or has, to skip a debate. It is quite another for two candidates to decide to debate and invite no one else. The first is a choice or necessity for the candidate who doesn't show. The second is a profoundly anti democratic and elitist notion (especially when a strong case can be made that two of the excluded candidates are ahead of one if not both of Dean and Kerry).

[renie408]

112. I know that you have all been waiting with bated breath

to know what I think about this. Unlike some possible candidates who like to draw out the anticipation, I am going to go ahead and offer my thoughts.

As much as I would like to diss Dean about this, I can't. He is in the right. At least as far as not engaging in a one-on-one debate at this point. I think everybody is getting worked up about politics-as-usual. Dean HAS to say things like, "I wish he would just say that to my face." in order to discredit Kerry's comments. And Kerry HAS to say things like, "I will be happy to meet him any time, any where and we can THROW DOWN!!" (that 'throw down' part was mine, I just thought it sounded good). But I would be really amazed if Kerry or his people really expected Dean to agree to a one-on-one debate. This is all just bluster similar to what I see between my two roosters all the time. I recognize all the clucking and head bobbing and poked out chests. But they really rarely actually go at it. Mostly it is just a show to attract the hens (read: voters).

[ModerateMiddle]

120. You do have to admit though

that calling Dean on wanting Kerry to "say it to (his) face" was a cool move.

[DrFunkenstein]

122. Dean Actually Was More Specific Than "To My Face"

"I just wish he had given me a chance to respond to all that stuff — the zero experience on foreign affairs, the NRA stuff, the tax cut stuff," Dean said.

"I would have liked to have responded to that in person," Dean said, relishing the thought of getting mouthy with Kerry.

[babzilla]

97. you too can be a debate sponser

good luck in that endeavor.

It will be your party and you can invite who you want to.

[sandnsea]

98. I invite Howard and Senator Kerry

To the beautiful Oregon Coast. Anytime.

[Nicholas_J]

116. Dean has had his shot

At attacking the other candidates.

Now its his turn to be on the recieving end...

The press is continually reminding the public of his inconsistancies while campaigning, and th other candidates are beginning to bring up Denas record as governor, as Gephardt recently has begun to point out.

[Cha]

12. Your post says more about you than it does about anything

else.

[babzilla]

47. why not break out the syrup

I'm in a celebratory mood.

[Demobrat]

8. Good. Why should the frontrunner confer special status on Kerry?

He's just one of eight.

[DrFunkenstein]

11. Very Smart Move

Considering Kerry would steamroll Dean if he was given the chance. Dean is much better with monologues and quick soundbites than a sustained discussion. Tim Russert mopped the floor with him, and he was just playing tough journalist. Could you imagine if someone could actually respond at length?

I agree that Trippi absolutely did the politically right move. Bush delayed the debates in 2000 to do his homework - and he almost won the election! I think Dean should be given the same chance.

--

"I just wish he had given me a chance to respond to all that stuff — the zero experience on foreign affairs, the NRA stuff, the tax cut stuff," Dean said.

"I would have liked to have responded to that in person," Dean said, relishing the thought of getting mouthy with Kerry.

--

<>

[Cha]

18. So Kerry can take his shots at Dean in The next debate with

all nine or ten of the candidates.

And your snide reference to Dean not having done his homework is just that.

[molly]

14. You guys are hysterical!

he said NO because he knew he would get CREAMED!!! He is NO match for Kerry! :nopity:

[Demobrat]

17. So far he's a little bit more than a match.

Stay tuned.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

19. As I said

let Kerry confront him in the next debate, as everyone thought he would do in the last 2 debates. I realize that the format isn't ideal, with so many candidates, but this is what we have.

[tedoll78]

44. For someone who's no match for Kerry..

he's doing awfully well.

Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean..

[HPLeft]

15. Very Typical Political Response

Trippi figures his guy is riding high right now in the polls, so why bother. Very slick, predictable response.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

16. One interesting thing to note

Joe Trippi is responding to Jim Jordan's having written him a letter challenging Dean to a 1-on-1 debate with Kerry. I didn't know there was a letter, thought this was just Kerry talking on Face the Nation.

Apparently this is part of Kerry's new strategy. See this Boston Globe article below.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/14/in_a_shift_of_strategy_kerry_takes_on_dean/

[Cha]

23. I thought this was on target...and yes it is just one paragraph...

you have to read the whole article ...

But this is a perspective from Jerome Grossman...

""John Kerry can do a lot better," said Grossman, who stresses that he still backs Kerry. "I still think he is the intellectual and political class of the field. But he hasn't lived up to those appellations." Grossman proposes a radical solution for Kerry's campaign: admit the vote for the Iraq war was a mistake."

[Rose Siding]

28. Where do you see about a letter?

Did I miss it in that article?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

30. It's at the beginning of Trippi's letter

"I received and reviewed your letter inviting Governor Dean to participate in a series of one- on-one debates with Senator Kerry..."

Not only that, I just noticed it says "a series of one-on-one debates..." What? Wish we could see Jim Jordan's letter.

[Rose Siding]

42. DUH!

I was combing the article...I'd raced through Trippi's amazing letter. Do you think Jordan sent it before today? That would be interesting to know.

[ModerateMiddle]

121. The letter is on the Kerry website

blog.

[babzilla]

59. that article is revealing

a fascinating insight into Kerry's campaign and hilarious to boot.

I get the image of the scene from Oh Brother Where Art Thou where Charles Durning has all of his sons on the porch giving him yes-man campaign advice that really isn't very good.

During an early July weekend of Cape Cod kiteboarding and campaign strategizing, Senator John F. Kerry gathered a dozen of his top aides on the porch of his Nantucket home to debate a key question: Should they respond to Howard Dean's surprise early airing of television commercials in Iowa?

Kerry's advisers concluded that Dean was foolishly frittering away precious campaign cash at a time when few voters were paying attention. The Massachusetts senator waited until 10 days ago to launch a commercial counterattack, finally airing spots in New Hampshire and Iowa. The July decision wound up costing Kerry and helping Dean, as the former Vermont governor rose in the polls over the summer, followed his Iowa blitz with similar ads in New Hampshire in early August, appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek, and collected millions of Internet dollars.

From the sound of this article things are not well within the Kerry campaign.

on edit: another porch

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. Good to see the Dean campaign respects the rest of the candidates

This isn't a race between Dean and Kerry, contrary to what the Kerry camp may think. Gephardt, Kucinich and even Clark have just as much support as Kerry does. Kerry doesn't have his foot firmly in second place. Dean isn't even firmly leading at this point. It's good to see the current frontrunner showing some humility in this respect.

[blm]

60. HAHA...Dean scorned SECOND tier candidates regularly

while setting himself up in the first tier.

PUHLEEZE don't try to bullshit those of us who paid attention to his entire campaign. He elbowed Sharpton, Kucinich, and Graham at some point with his arrogance just to step on them all along the way.

He shouldn't make accusations against Kerry if he's to scared to follw through.

[Egnever]

86. too scared to follow through?

Hahaha you guys are really getting ahead of yourselves. Kerry cries pooor me i just dont have enough time in the debates to get my point accross.

And you turn that into dean is scared?


LOL you crack me up.

Dean owns this process right now He IS the frontrunner all he has to do is hold his lead to win. He doesnt have to do jack. Kerry gets his minute and a half like everyone else. Lieberman and kucinich have had no problem calling dean out in thier time. Kerry just thinks hes somehow better than them and deserves more than they do.

Sorry but kerry sucks. Id vote for him over bush but hes no leader. Yet again he let dean define him today.

[KaraokeKarlton]

117. No doubt

Kerry wants to sit back in the debates and hope that someone else manages to neutralize Dean. He doesn't want to get his own hands dirty or be invovled if it doesn't work. Cowardly, for sure. He only made this challenge because he knew Dean would not dis the rest of t he candidates. If he thought for one second that Dean would take him up on the offer he never would have made it. Again, he only did it to "appear cool". He's not running for the job, he's running for the image and status the position would give him.

[KaraokeKarlton]

115. Take a chill pill

Dean didn't "elbow" anyone, he just worked harder than everyone else and it paid off. Deal with it.

What accusations? Since when is responding to someone's personal attacks made directly to the press an accusation?

And why on earth should Dean do anything to help Kerry get press? Also, Kerry and Dean are not the only two candidates. It's seems as if Mr. Kerry thinks he's a bit too big for his britches. That's okay, though, because while he's obsessing over Dean, Kucinich, Gephardt and Clark are going to pass Kerry by too. That's what happens when you think you're entitled to something and don't want to work for it. Kerry was the front runner and he lost it to Dean because he just assumed he wasn't going to have to do anything to EARN the nomination. His loss.

[flpoljunkie]

22. Dear Trippi,

Kerry has called out your candidate, Howard Dean, and Howard Dean has flinched.

For those who missed it, the Face the Nation Transcript:

SCHIEFFER: Most people thought at this point that you would be the front-runner. You are not. Howard Dean seems to be lead--be leading both inIowa, where you are now, and in--in New Hampshire, where those early primaries are coming. You have said some pretty tough things about him, and he said the other day, when asked why you kind of went easy on him during the debate in New Mexico, he said, 'I wish he would say to my face what he says behind my back.' Have you decided to go easy on him now?

Sen. KERRY: Well, first of all--first of all, Bob, we're doing very well. These races are not decided in August. It was always clear there would be a race, and I welcome it. Secondly, with respect to the comment you just made, I welcome Governor Dean's challenge. If he wants a challenge and he wants us to go face-to-face, I accept. Let's get together, let's have a debate, and let's talk about the real issues for the country and show people the differences between us. And maybe you want to moderate that. We can do it inIowa. We can do it in New Hampshire. I'm perfectly willing to do it. In those one-minute exchanges with nine people on the stage, it's very, very difficult to really get at and explain the differences between candidates. So I welcome the opportunity to do that one-on-one with Governor Dean, and I'm glad he wants to do it.

SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, you say you will be there. I'll be there. That's two of us. If we can get...

Sen. KERRY: I'll look forward to it.

SCHIEFFER: ...if we can get Governor Dean to do that, I'll see what we can do about that, and maybe I could even get a little extra time on FACE THE NATION. So, Doyle.

Sen. KERRY: Well, I'd be happy to do it, and let's find the right place, the right time. We could find an hour out inIowa, I think people would love to see the differences between us.

[Cha]

25. The "frontrunner" doesn't have to ignore the other 7 or 8 and

do the bidding of a kerry. Dean didn't "flinch" at all..he's just not going to let kerry dictate any terms which I can't blame him...

[DrFunkenstein]

26. Then Let Dean Come Up With The Terms of The Debate

If he really thinks he has the best message and he is the best messenger, why not put Kerry in his place? Let him come up with something he is comfortable with. Apparently, he is most comfortable with 1 minute answers. Very impressive.

[Cha]

36. That's just disingenous.

And Kerry's invitation is "rude to the other candidates".

I don't pretend to know a lot about politics but evidently kerry can address Dean in the forums with all of the other candidates present.

kerry doesn't get a special stage to do that.

[DrFunkenstein]

49. Listen To All The Parliamentarians Here!

We must abide by Queensbury rules, naturally.

Cluck cluck.

[babzilla]

41. 1 minute answers are impressive

in a debate that limits the answers to 1 minute, as the CBC debate rules dictated.

Too bad that the Debate champ couldn't abide by the forum that was decided on as he rambled over the yellow light, the red light, the bell, and then some.

Dean nailed his answers within the alloted time per the debate rules. Kerry's debate teachers (if they are still alive) must have been just as dissapointed as his roaring mouse.

Why doesn't Dean put Kerry in his place? I think Kerry is in his place. May the best message prevail.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

85. LOL

Excellent point!

Dean has nothing to gain by engaging Kerry in a one-on-one, not to mention he actually DOES value the democratic process. Kerry, on the other hand, is getting obviously desperate. Having the arrogance to expect votes instead of work for them from a grassroots level has ruined Kerry's campaign.

[Nazgul35]

125. ummmmmm....he did come up with the terms of the debate...

and the answer was:

When Senator Kerry is able to distinguish himself from the rest of the field of candidates, than Dean will consider debating him....

Right now the field is the frontrunner Dean and everybody else....

Kerry lost the ability to dictate anything when he lost the frontrunner status...so get your boy back in the game and maybe Dean will consider debating him....

But I have a feeling that once Clark enters the field, we wont be hearing much from Kerry anymore...*

*the feelings expressed in this post are the sole property of Nazgul35 and are not meant in anyway to imply an attitude for anyone living or dead who are not named Nazgul35...

[CMT]

27. this is the correct response

now Kerry will get a chance to go head to head with only Dean if both of them survive the early primaries and other candidates drop out. Until then I think Trippi is correct that Kerry can address his concerns with Dean at the current candidate forums.

[DrFunkenstein]

34. In One Minute Increments, Just Like It Should Be

That seems the best way to determine who the nominee should be. That way, the press can report on political jostling instead of policy. Why is Dean afraid to get into a real policy debate? And I don't mean "Bush recession to Dean Depression" crap, either.

The candidates are all free to debate each other whenever they want. Not all functions have to include every single candidate. It's not a reason, its a cop out.

[molly]

51. I do not know of one instance where Dean has done well

on a question and answer talk show? Does anyone else? When I watched him on the MTP interview a few months ago - I was embarrassed for him. At that point, he was my number 2 choice - he is my number 10 choice now. His supporters have done nothing to make him look good here - they act like childish cultists. That says a lot for their candidate.

[DrFunkenstein]

54. I Heard He Didn't Do Well On Charlie Rose

Did anyone actually see it?

[SEAburb]

63. I watched it. It's good for Dean few saw it.

Charlie was trying to pin him down on the Iraq war issue and Dean was back peddling and tripping all over himself. It was Dean's worst performance.

[Skwmom]

31. Soundbite Dean

Kind of reminds me of the current guy sitting in the Whitehouse. Oh well it worked for Bush, why shouldn't it work for Dean.

[Cha]

38. DEan is so much more than "soundbites"....and if you were

paying Any attention you would know that.

But it's so much easier to say "soundbite" than to actually learn what a candidate is about.

http://www.deanforamerica.com

http://www.blogforamerica.com

[DrFunkenstein]

43. This Is Not January

We know what Dean is about. We've read his policy speeches. We know what he sounds like in monologue. All we want is for Dean's ideas to see the light of day. Dean people should be excited to take on the other candidates. You have the best guy, remember? You've been saying it for months, but when push comes to shove you hide behind parliamentary procedure.

Let Dean prove that he is the best candidate.

[CMT]

73. now you know if it were on the other foot

and Kerry was still ahead in NH that if Dean proposed a one-on-one debate with him, that the Kerry campaign would give the same response as the Dean campaign did. This is politics, pure and simple.

[Le Taz Hot]

124. Soundbite?

Like your post?

Don't you just love irony? :eyes:

[Rose Siding]

33. Trippi is..well, a trip

He *even* got in a detailed point about Dems supporting Bush policy and cast Kucinich in a positive light.

It is so much fun to watch this stuff. What a pro!

Dean '04

[DrFunkenstein]

37. A Pointed Detail, Not A Detailed Point

Which is what I'm talking about. The Dean camp hawks out soundbites instead of real debate.

[Cha]

39. It does Both! Which is why we are gaining so much traction!

[DrFunkenstein]

45. Yes!

:shrug:

[LuminousX]

48. When have you ever seen a real debate

in Presidential politics? Especially in the primaries?

Kerry's request shows he is backed into the corner and feels the only way he can get out is to get a 1 on 1 show with Dean. Dean would be an idiot if he let that happen. If the field of candidates get widdled down significantly and it becomes a neck and neck race between the two, then it would be in both their interests to get a 1 on 1 debate. Right now, it is only in Kerry's interest.

I applaud the move on Kerry's part. It is shrewd. It ups his aggression quotient, but it will fall if in the next 9(10 if Clark joins) candidate debate Kerry doesn't directly attack Dean.

[DrFunkenstein]

52. Dan Quayle And Lloyd Bentsen

Which one would Dean play? I guess we'd have to see the debate to find out.

It is in Dean's "interest" to play if safe, but he didn't get to where he is by playing safe. Is he just going to nurse his lead and play politics-as-usual?

Kerry is giving him a chance to become the nominee. A decisive victory over Kerry would practically hand the nomination to Dean and Kerry would never be heard from again.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

55. Yeah, I'm sure that's part of Kerry's strategy...

to give Dean a chance to bury him.

But seriously, I'm not crazy about the format that only allows for 1-minute answers either. I wouldn't have a problem if they could come up with something that made sense. But I think this would be weird; I mean, can then Kucinich challenge Kerry to a debate, and would they have to respond?

And would they all end up having to debate Sharpton 1-on-1?

[DrFunkenstein]

58. That Would Be Awesome!

Maybe set up a desk for Sharpton, and have the others come on as guests!

<>

Wishful thinking? What happened to the tall guy?

[babzilla]

61. what you don't seem to understand

is that it is not Kerry's place to give Dean a chance to become the nominee. That is the very attitude that turns people off about Kerry.

And don't try to butter us up by promising that Kerry would never be heard from again.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

76. Not to mention

Bentsen-Quayle was after the nomination process of both parties.

[LuminousX]

64. A decisive victory over Kerry gives him nothing

He would still have Clark, Gephardt, and Lierberman to contend with. That is a lot of political energy expended towards one opponent. It would be foolish for anyone in Dean's position to agree to such a thing.

And, in the long run, I bank that it won't hurt Dean to decline. The people still aren't paying attention. Kerry is making the right move, just a bit too early in my opinion.

[DrFunkenstein]

72. Dean Gets More and More Cautious By The Day

Sounding more and more like politics as usual. I feel bad for all the kids that sent money to him, thinking he would be something besides a politician.

[Cha]

75. save your pity for something that counts.

[LuminousX]

83. He always was a politician

And you are correct, once Dean became the Front Runner, he had to play the game more conservatively. He has more to lose now. But he is still taking risks, just more calculated one.

I back his strategy as I believe it will garner the most votes in the primaries.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

88. You now sound JUST like Kerry

both desperate and arrogant.

[Egnever]

95. Ohh the poor children!

Rofl you crack me up with this stuff

[babzilla]

100. take a moment to think about it though...

...whatever will we tell the children?

Please sir, can I have some more debates?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

105. LOL

Yer killin' me! :party:

[DrFunkenstein]

109. Is That Mia Farrow?

Or Oliver Twist?

[polpilot]

40. Desperate, desperate move by a failed campaign.

Dean '04...

[DrFunkenstein]

46. A Cluck Cluck Here, A Cluck Cluck There

Let Dean prove he is the best.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

50. Damn

I have that great picture of Dean with the cows, just wish I could find one with chickens...

[DrFunkenstein]

57. This Is As Close As I Could Get

Not a chicken, but two chickenhawks ain't too bad!

<>

[RevolutionStartsNow]

62. Very funny, but...

no fair to use those scary guys!

At the risk of giving you ammunition, this thread reminds me of a hotel I stayed in once in a depressing place called Carson, California, near LA. I went out to find something to eat and the only place open was something called "Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles". LOL.

[DrFunkenstein]

68. And I Thought The Cuban/Chinese Place Down The Street Was Scary!

Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles! I love it!

<>

The internet is a scary place...

[RevolutionStartsNow]

74. Damn, I knew you'd do that

I shoulda known better.

[RogueTrooper]

53. This is a monstrous mistake from the Kerry campaign

Their claim for sole debating rights is a little on the spurious side. I cannot imagine any of the other campaign's are going to let this slight pass quietly.

Let me get this straight. You invent a spurious reason to have 1 on 1 debate with Howard Dean; who, observing a sense of electoral propiety, turns you down flat. Their is a faint stench of deperation emanating from the Kerry campaign. And this is a desperate move.

[DrFunkenstein]

56. A Little On The Spurious Side?

Looks like somebody studied for the SATs!

But what the hell does "prioprity" mean?

:shrug:

[babzilla]

66. its good that you are concerned with spelling

but are you going to answer the other replies to your comments or just leave it at chicken?

[DrFunkenstein]

69. You Mean The Part About

Kerry claiming sole debate rights? I think its a dumb argument. Kerry proposed an aside, not an alternative to the forums. There are no rules forbidding that. And I think it is a great idea, considering how stupid having 9 people (maybe 10 soon) at one debate is. By California standards, it may not be much, but even California narrowed it to a small group (and another group on the Game Show Network).

[RogueTrooper]

71. Why should Dean debate your candidate

What has your candidate done to deserve that kind of special treatment from the Dean campaign?

Sounds like Kerry is performing to type, 'though

From Dave Barry...

I will support whoever is, even if it is Sen. John Kerry, who once came, with his entourage, into a ski-rental shop in Ketchum, Idaho, where I was waiting patiently with my family to rent snowboards, and Sen. Kerry used one of his lackeys to flagrantly barge in line ahead of us and everybody else, as if he had some urgent senatorial NEED for a snowboard, like there was about to be an emergency meeting, out on the slopes, of the Joint

http://www.sacbee.com/content/lifestyle/story/7414707p-8357884c.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

77. Ouch.

[DrFunkenstein]

80. Diminishing Returns, Huh?

Why don't you accuse me of supporting Lyndon Larouche some more? You used to be funny even in the most heated debates. What happened? Is it different when it is IP instead of IWR?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

90. Yes. Diminishing returns.

I've never claimed to stay out of flamebait threads, only to have never started them. If one starts a flamefest, they're fair game, imo. But is Flame thread #47 really going to accomplish what the first 46 couldn't? I don't think so.

You offer LaRouche as a credible source and stuff happens. Here it is:

DrFunkenstein (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-07-03 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #5

8. B-b-but...Dean Supported NAFTA...A-a-and Still Does


He admits he was a strong supporter of NAFTA in 1995—although you would never guess it from his response to the "free trade" question on the AFL-CIO's website candidate questionnaire. Dr. Dean was the leading proponent of electricity deregulation in Vermont—the same policy which bankrupted California—and Dean, unlike others who have wised up, is still all for deregulation.

Conversation with Howard Dean, with Moderator Joe Klein, at the John F. Kennedy Library and Foundation, March 26, 2003, at www.jfklibrary.org:

Moderator Joe Klein: Now, let's move on to one last area ... trade. You were on record in '95, and I think for many years after, as being a very strong supporter of NAFTA. And, in fact, it has had very positive economic impacts on the northern border. However, I saw you in Iowa in October, and you said fair trade is more important than free trade. And I heard you speak against NAFTA at that point. What caused you to change your mind about it? And in general, how do you feel about the notion of free trade?

Dean: I haven't spoken against NAFTA, but your quotes are right. NAFTA was a big benefit to Vermont. We got—

Klein: I've got to say, the union audience I saw you saying that to, thought you were speaking against NAFTA.

Dean: I still think NAFTA was a a good thing. I think the President did the right thing. But the problem is, now, 10 years into NAFTA ... We should go back and tell the WTO that "you need also to include environmental standards and labor standards..."

http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/2003/030803howard_dean.html

<END>

As for the IP issue I think there's nothing wrong with saying "even-handed." Seems like a good idea to me.

Oh yeah, don't worry. I'm still funnier than shit (especially if it's not a particularly funny shit).

[DrFunkenstein]

101. I'm Glad You Brought This Back (Cause I Lost It)

You know damn well that I do a Google search on all this stuff. I typed in something like "Howard Dean NAFTA Joe Klein," looking for the "Temptation" article and this showed up.

Actually, I know about as much about Larouche as I do Bo Gritz - they're both nutballs (except Bo has some great photos of himself!).

If this was an editorial or something, I wouldn't have posted it. But it is clearly a interview between Klein and Dean, and the least bit controversial.

But that didn't stop you from riding in on your trojan horse and trying to smear me as some nutcase's secret operative - several times. The first time was a joke, but you started mentioning it in other threads too! I didn't think that was too cool, and not what I'd come to expect from you.

And, I'm sorry, but I've had some pretty hilarious shits in my day.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

126. The first 7 paragraphs are a hit piece.

Read it again.

[DrFunkenstein]

78. Sounds Like You're Performing To Type

Republican type. What's with the bizarre anecdote from Dave Barry?

Kerry deserves special treatment because Dean laid down a challenge to him, but is apparently too scared to back it up. Better to play it politically safe.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

81. Cluck. Cluck. Byock. Byock.

This isn't the third grade. Personally I could give a shit whether they hold a debate, or not. As a matter of fact I think it might be a mistake to say "no" to a free hour of national TV. That's just my opinion. However, it is perfectly obvious that someone in this campaign is scared. And it's not Howard Dean.

[DrFunkenstein]

102. Joe Trippi?

Just because you could give a shit doesn't mean you should. That's just nasty.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

91. Bizarre? It's revealing.

[DrFunkenstein]

103. No, If He Had A Medical Deferment A Few Months Earlier

THAT would be a revealing anecdote.

PS - I think its cool that Kerry snowboards? Does Dean? That would be better than a debate? They should get a ramp and just hotdog each other on the slopes. The winner will be President.

[babzilla]

79. that's a good answer

I'm sure you do think it is a dumb argument that Kerry should play along with everyone else running.

Again, this is one example of why Kerry gets tagged with the aloof elitist label. So Kerry proposes an aside not an alternative, okay, sorry Kerry cannot get his point across when the other peons are hogging up his spotlight.

[DrFunkenstein]

108. Damn That Aloof Elitist!

He has already had to apologize for at least two caustic comments leveled at foes. In March, he accused Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina of avoiding talking about his support of the Iraq war before an anti-war audience. In June, Dean described Sen. Bob Graham of Florida as "not one of the top-tier candidates," a remark he regretted.

http://www.heraldsun.com/nationworld/elections/16-388697.html

How many times has Dean called Sharpton, Braun, and Kucinich second-class candidates so he could be the "only viable" anti-war candidate? And Kerry is an aloof elitist for wanting to go mano a mano? Give me a break.

[Egnever]

92. Wow a spelling flame

Now thats desperate

[DrFunkenstein]

104. Oh Stop. You Don't Even Spell Egg Never Right.

A little more time worrying about yourself, and you'd pick up on these things.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

107. Hey, Oh brilliant one...

His name is Revenge backwards. Try thinking outside the box.

BTW, spelling flames are the most desperate.

[DrFunkenstein]

111. I Was Joking, Silly Goose!

BTW, I only mentioned the spelling because he tried dropping the mad SAT words on me. He went Latin on my ass! What could I do? He knows I don't know what spurious means, that's why he used it twice. Devious, I'll give him that.

"Thinking outside the box." Did you come up with that one on your own?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

114. You've been hanging around kids too long

you are starting to argue the way they do. I was only joking....yeah. LOL

[Egnever]

110. Revenge is sweet!

is that EGG on your face?

[DrFunkenstein]

113. D'Oh!

Foiled again.;-)

[ima_sinnic]

65. Looks like Kerry's running scared

Why this obsession with Howard Dean? His preoccupation with Dean is starting to seem :silly: :crazy: :silly:

Give us your ideas, John, instead of reacting to Dean's.

[molly]

67. Kerry does not waffle-waffle-waffle

his ideas have been clearly defined from the beginning of his campaign - can't say the same for your candidate - can we?

Put their records side by side and see who comes out the more dedicated to the American people - certainly NOT Howard Waffle Dean.

[Egnever]

84. Oh really?

I would call this wafling



(Videotape, October 9, 2002):
SEN. KERRY: Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating agents and is capable of quickly producing weaponizing of a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery on a range of vehicles, such as bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers and covert operatives which would bring them to the United States itself.
In addition, we know they are developing unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering chemical and biological warfare agents.
According to the CIA’s report, all U.S. intelligence experts agree that they are seeking nuclear weapons. There is little question that Saddam Hussein wants to develop them.
In the wake of September 11, who among us can say with any certainty to anybody that the weapons might not be used against our troops or against allies in the region? Who can say that this master of miscalculation will not develop a weapon of mass destruction even greater, a nuclear weapon?
(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Unmanned aerial vehicles...
SEN. KERRY: Sure.
MR. RUSSERT: ...a nuclear threat. Those are exactly the things that you suggested in New Hampshire President Bush had lied to you about.
SEN. KERRY: That’s precisely the point. That is exactly the point I’m making. We were given this information by our intelligence community. Now, either it was stretched politically in the many visits of Dick Cheney to the CIA and the way in which they created a client relationship, but the information we were given, built on top of the seven and a half years of what we knew he was doing, completely justified the notion that you had to respond to give the president the right to put inspectors in. The president said
when he put them in “War is not inevitable.” Colin Powell said to us, “The only rationale for going to war was weapons of mass destruction,” and it was legitimate to hold Saddam Hussein accountable to get the inspectors in. I’m saying to you that I don’t believe this president did the job of exhausting the remedies available to make us as strong as we should have been in doing that and certainly didn’t do the planning to be able to win the peace in the way that we need to. And I still think we can do it, Tim, but we’ve got to
get about the business of doing it.
MR. RUSSERT: But you had access to the intelligence. You had access to the national intelligence estimate...
SEN. KERRY: Absolutely.
MR. RUSSERT: ...which said the CIA had a low confidence in Saddam Hussein using weapons of mass destruction or transferring the terrorists. And the State Department, which is included in the national intelligence estimate, said there was not a compelling case, that he reconstituted his nuclear program.
SEN. KERRY: I didn’t base it on the nuclear, but the most important and compelling rationale were the lack of inspections and the non-compliance of Saddam Hussein. Even Hans Blix at the United Nations said he is not in compliance.
MR. RUSSERT: Were you misled by the intelligence agencies? Were you duped?
SEN. KERRY: No, we weren’t

[DrFunkenstein]

70. Hey Mr. Smarty Pants Over There

"I wish he'd say to my face what he says behind my back," Dean said before disappearing behind the door, a grimace on his face.

"I just wish he had given me a chance to respond to all that stuff — the zero experience on foreign affairs, the NRA stuff, the tax cut stuff," Dean said.

"I would have liked to have responded to that in person," Dean said, relishing the thought of getting mouthy with Kerry.

---

Apparently he doesn't like his waffles with relish.

Ok, I just grossed myself out.

[babzilla]

87. why not poo-poo head while you're at it?

smarty-pants, bwock-bwock chicken, mouthy-mouther, poopie-head.

I for one, am not elegantly amused.

[deutsey]

118. I don't see the word "debate" anywhere in these quotes

It sounds like Dean is pissed off by 1) Kerry apparently saying things behind his back; 2) not being able to respond to certain issues at length; 3) by not having a one-on-one discussion with Kerry about whatever.

In most debate structures you don't get a chance to get "mouthy" with your opponent; also, there is a time-limit imposed on responses in most debates; finally, the first quote doesn't have much to do with debating as it does with the bad blood between these two.

Trippi's response makes sense to me in that he's addressing the notion of a special debate, not the daggers these two are apparently sharpening for each other.

[Demobrat]

89. I thought it was Dean who was supposed to put his foot in it.

If Kerry had thought for a moment, I'm sure would have reconsidered making such a big deal out of Dean's remark. A simple "well, I'll see him at the next debate" would have sufficed. Instead he let himself be goaded into disrespecting the other candidates and giving Dean a chance to take the high road.

[DrFunkenstein]

106. That's Hilarious! Dean Constantly Disrespects The Other Candidates!

Less than an hour later, Dean was visiting his new campaign headquarters where he fielded more than a dozen questions at an impromptu news conference. As aides pulled him inside, Dean was asked whether he was surprised that rival John Kerry did not criticize him in Thursday's debate.

"Well, I'll see him at the next debate," Dean said before disappearing behind the door, a grimace on his face.

He has already had to apologize for at least two caustic comments leveled at foes. In March, he accused Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina of avoiding talking about his support of the Iraq war before an anti-war audience. In June, Dean described Sen. Bob Graham of Florida as "not one of the top-tier candidates," a remark he regretted.

--

Why can't Kerry be more dignified, like Howard Dean?

How many times has he tried to distance himself from the other candidates that opposed the war by saying they are second-tier? And now suddenly he wants to embrace everyone and keep the debates at 9 to 10 people? Please.