Kucinich: a defining moment and a strong reason to elect him

[Mairead]

Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate who has put not merely his political job on the line for the people who elected him, but his very ability to be employed at all. If that kind of integrity isn't a winning characteristic in these days of 'pink tutu' invertebrate politicians, what is?

This is one fragment of Bob Edwards's interview on NPR:

EDWARDS: Speaking of deficits, how does being mayor of Cleveland in 1978, when it defaulted on loans, qualify you to be president?

Rep. KUCINICH: Well, actually that single fact, as the American people learn about it, will more than anything cause people to want me to be the next president. I was elected mayor of Cleveland on a promise to stop the sale of the city's municipal electric system. Our municipal electric system provided power to about a third of the city at a savings on the electric bill of about 25 percent. The previous mayor and council had sold the system. I organized a citizens campaign to block the sale. When I was elected I cancelled the sale. On Dec. 15, 1978, the largest bank in Ohio came to me and said, 'We will not renew the city's credit on $15 million in loans,' which I hadn't taken out -- taken out by the previous mayor -- 'We will not renew the city's credit unless you sell the city's electric system to a private company' -- a utility monopoly in which the bank had financial interest. My political career was on the line there. But more than that, the economic welfare of the people I represented was on the line, people for whom it matters whether they're paying... $80 or $100 a month for an electric bill. So I said no. I knew it would cost me the next election, but I understood that I was elected to stand up for the economic rights of the people who put me in there and I made a promise to do that. I think America would like to have a president who had the willingness to stand up to the monopolies in our society who wasn't bossed or bought, who had the freedom to be able to say, 'You're charging people too much for food, for health care, for energy, for any product.' And so my experience in Cleveland ends up being for me not only a defining moment but a moment to demonstrate that it is possible for a public official to stand up for the right thing. And the very fact that I'm sitting in front of you today comes as a result of a process where the people of Cleveland returned me to office years later because they understood the importance of the decision I made. Regularly in the city of Cleveland itself I score over 80 percent of the vote because people appreciate what I did. In my congressional district, which includes city and suburb, the last two elections I had 74 percent of the vote. So again the question is what kind of leader will the American people want to be the next president and I think that the kind of leadership that I've already provided will cause many people to say, 'You know, that's what we want, we want someone who's not afraid to stand up, who's not afraid to do the right thing.'

[thethinker]

1. Kucinich stands for what I believe in

Kucinich is the only one running I agree with on all issues. I think he is the only one that will not sell out the people to the highest bidder.
I also think Americans are ready to vote for a big change from the direction the country has taken under *.

[DrFunkenstein]

22. Kerry Has Never Accepted A PAC

He has raised some money for other candidates, but has never taken them himself. That is why his voting record is so incredible. He is a bulldog on trimming government pork, and has a long record of trimming military pork. I hope that means something to progressives out there. He has never been beholden to corporate interests, unlike too many in the Party.

[DemDogs]

41. Kerry takes lobbyist money, which is a way around that

no-PAC promise. I don't know about Kucinich, but I know Edwards doesn't take with PAC or lobbyist money. (The way PACs and candidates get around a no-PAC promise is that their lobbyists are paid a little more with the understanding they will make certain contributions.)

[Mairead]

44. Dr F, I surely wish you and BLM could get Kerry to turn left again

It's almost physically painful seeing him do the DLC Two-Step. Honestly. I can't help but think that's why he sounds ...reserved.

[hippywife]

55. Hell! I'm ready

to vote for a big change from the rest of the Democrats!! }(

[lcordero]

2. I don't think that Edwards likes Kucinich very much because it seems that

he was hunting for Kucinich's head.

[LWolf]

31. Of course, I didn't hear him speak.

But I had the opposite impression from the Kucinich camp; Dennis likes Edwards. If I remember correctly, they've worked together on a couple of things.

Memory is foggy here...can anyone help me out with what I think I remember? My brain has left the building.

:eyes:

[no name no slogan]

36. I think it's NPR's Bob Edwards they're referring to (n/t)

...and not the Good Senator.

[DemDogs]

40. John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich

really like one another. Did you hear Kucinich on The Daily Show? And Edwards has says he really likes Kucinich. It is not surprising. They are two of the most likeable candidates in the race.

[genius]

35. That's nonsense.

Edwards usually says great things about Kucinich.

[dsc]

3. Dean did this in 2000

on Civil Unions. He came within a whisker of losing that race.

[Mairead]

5. No, his was less: he was a multi-millionaire; he didn't need the job

So for him it was a political risk, nothing more. Brave, yes, but not even close to Kucinich's.

[dsc]

7. It bears pointing out

that neither what you quoted nor what I know about Kucinich bears out the employment angle you raised. Kucinich is a phenominally well eductated man and had plenty of employment oportunities which he availed himself of upon losing. Clearly he lost some he may otherwise have had. But he didn't remain unemployed from his loss in 79 until his win in 94. I would presume had Dean lost he would have returned to medicine (I don't know that for sure but it seems a good guess). Kucinich taught for a large amount of the time he was in exile.

[lcordero]

10. Kucinich recently said that his employment prospects were so bad after

his stint as mayor that he had to move to San Francisco to find a job.

[dsc]

11. I honestly don't recall that

but concede it could have been true for employment he desired. I think he could have gotten and was offered several teaching jobs in Ohio. Again he is phenominally well educated. Similarly Dean surely would have lost some patients over his career had he gone back to medicine. How many I have no clue.

[Mairead]

14. He's not 'phenomenally well educated' -- he has an MA in Communications!

Which probably is 'better' than an MA in English Lit, but by how much?

As to his employment, he nearly lost his house, and he worked in 5 different fields- TV commentator, media consultant, college instructor (i.e., the adjunct no-tenure no-benefits kind), and public utility consultant -during those 15 years on the shelf.

[dsc]

15. He went to seminary

for several years and has the MA. He speaks fluent Latin (yes Latin). I would consider that phenominally well educated.

[Mairead]

17. Your standards are lower than mine, then.

I know a lot of people who speak fluent Latin, most of them because of their RC education. To me, 'phenomenally good' would be multiple doctorates in different subjects. Any number of people have Masters degrees, and many are fluent in a second language. I am, for example, and I got my uni education at night, at a public, land-grant school.

[dsc]

18. He basically has the equivalent of two MA's

which is my point. Those several years in seminary were at least close to that as an equivalent.

[Mairead]

25. Oh come on! A seminary education is a BA, and only if completed.

Furrfu!

[dsc]

29. He went for seven years

is what he told me back in 92 when he was running for Congress. That is why I figured it had to be the equivalent of a MA

[Mairead]

34. Which seven years?

I think they're all accounted for, apart from the details of his 15 years on the shelf. Seminary isn't mentioned anywhere. Could 'seminary' really be 'Catholic school'?

[dsc]

37. This is from a conversation I had with him back in 91 or 92

so I honestly don't know the details too well. I was at the time a home instruction tutor and he was running for Congress. I saw him at a local mall and we started chatting. He asked me what I did for a living and I told him. He asked me what it entailed and I told him that too. At the time I had a student in Latin and we discussed that. It was then that he spoke to me in Latin (way, way, way, better than mine but my Spanish is better than his). I asked him where he learned it and he said seminary. I also think the Cleveland magazine piece on him mentioned seminary too. I also recall 7 years. I could be conflating things though.

On edit He ran for my district back in 92 and lost in the primary.

[genius]

50. Kucinich was the best educated when it came to seeing USA-Patriot

for what it was.

[dsc]

51. He wasn't alone on that one

He had a couple dozen in the House with him and Feingold in the Senate. The House list is quite interesting as it also has some conservative members on it.

[Mairead]

52. I think Genius meant 'of the current candidates'

[DemDogs]

42. You're joking, right?

Dean's defining moment is reluctantly signing a bill that the Vermont Supreme Court said was the less far-reaching of two alternatives and he did it in the dead of night without press? It was the defining moment of courage for the Supreme Court. The Governor was in a box and took the low road out. I admit that now he embraces it, but you should admit that it was not a defining moment of courage.

[dsc]

43. Your are flat out wrong

there is no other word for it. I have posted not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, not five times, not six times, not seven times but at least eight times, in detail how the constitution of Vermont could have been changed JUST LIKE THE CONSTITUTIONS OF HAWAII AND ALASKA WERE. GIven that you need to get your facts stright.

[Evil_Dewers]

4. I like Kucinich...

Good Congressman...But unelectable as a presidential candidate.

He can be the HUD director in the next Democratic administration.

[Mairead]

8. Now, this is an example of what *I* would call 'bashing'

Some empty, belittling comment with nothing to back it up but the size of the writer's sense of self-importance.

Thanks for the example. Let's have fewer of them in future.

[Evil_Dewers]

13. Nothing to back it up?

Kucinich is a librul. So am I. Ergo, he's unelectable (as president). In case you haven't been paying attention, "librul" has been a dirty word for the last couple of decades.

The American people are fickle and stupid. Examples: A Chimp puts on a flight suit and becomes a "war hero." 70% of Americans think Saddam Hussein was behind 9-11. Kucinich ain't a looker. Nobody with jet black dyed hair will be elected president again (Ronald Raygun was the last).

30% of the public is conservative and will vote Republican always.

29% of the public is librul and will vote Democratic always.

It is the 41% of the "moderates" you have to win over.

Kucinich can't do that. Tough luck for you (and for us). BTW, if through some miracle Kucinich is the nominee, I will vote for him. But that miracle will mean Chimp will be president until 2008 (or until the next Civil War starts). The right wing media will not allow a President Kucinich. Dems need to take what we can get since we don't seem to know/don't chose to fight the Repugnantcans with the same type of lie/cheat/steal tactics they use on us.

[Mairead]

16. As I said: nothing to back it up.

In 1994, Dennis was one of only 3 Democrats in the nation to take a state senate seat away from a Republican incumbent. That's a non-trivial accomplishment.

One of his former political opponents, George Forbes, a Black man who as President of the City Council was constantly hammer-and-tongs against Dennis during his tenure as mayor, commented recently that 'nobody likes him but the people'.

[Evil_Dewers]

19. Wow!!! Kucinich won a state senate seat!!!

That's extremely trivial compared to taking a presidential election.

You got nothing, sweety. Don't waste anymore of your valuable time and money on your boy Dennis the Menace. I looked up "presidentially unelectable" in the dictionary and saw this picture:

[dsc]

21. In fairness

that was an exeptional accomplishment. That year in Ohio was a melt down. Governor Voinovich had a very easy opponent (he won something like 75 to 25)and spent most of his campaign kitty on ads for vulnerable Republicans. As was pointed out this was a very rare victory for us in 94.

[Mairead]

26. And another example of a content-free 'bash' from the peanut gallery

[Fovea]

32. You're from Missouri, and I have to show you.

I can think of several scenarios for 2004 that have little to do with the label 'librul'.

Most Americans have been entranced with fear. Gosh, that is not accidental, it started with Bush talking down the tech boom in 2000.
They only wanted one big player... energy.

Not many people could see it at first, because the trance of fear overlay many of the moves on Afghanistan and Iraq. The occupation has lifted the scales from a lot of eyes in the last six months. And a lot of folks are starting to fear the Ashcroft police state more than the terrorists. For some, that deepens the denial, and the RW spin has become a parody of itself. But when that fear turns to panic, some really wild stuff is poised to happen.

Nothing will lift this economy. Not cheap oil, certainly not tax cuts for the rich. That wealth is trickling down into off shore investment and gold dealers. Two more quarters of job-loss recovery, and crony capitalism is more than enough to move the working class to stampede.

When that happens in June of next year, you want a candidate that is equal measures Joe Hill, FDR, and Billy Sunday. Dennis Kucinich *believes* in the middle class, and he is determined to save it.

If he can stay in the race till next spring, he stands a fair chance of becoming not the next Bill Clinton, but the next FDR.

[cosmicdot]

6. let me see if I can disrupt, belittle, or one-up this thread

no, not from me

DENNIS KUCINICH: THE PROGRESSIVE CHOICE

"As a candidate for President, I offer a different vision for America, one which separates me from the other candidates. I am the only candidate who will take this country away from fear and war and tax giveaways, and use America's peace dividend for guaranteed health care for all, ending health care for profit. I am the only candidate who will stop the privatization of social security and bring the retirement age back to 65. As President, I will cancel NAFTA and the WTO, restore our manufacturing jobs, save our family farms, create full employment programs. I will repeal the Patriot Act to regain for all Americans the sacred right of privacy in our homes, our libraries, our schools." (Presidential Debate, ABC News, 5/3/03

[dsc]

9. I surely hope you are not referring to my post

I only posted due to the bold only in Mailred's. I do think that invites people pointing out when their candidate did exactly the same thing.

[cosmicdot]

12. I certainly hope you're not taking it personally

[blm]

20. Great answer. And he spoke the truth!

I don't see how anyone can NOT support this man no matter who else you support. Come on folks, kick in for DK.

Well, unless you are a candidate that is FOR deregulation of electricity.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. Go, Dennis, Go!

He's just what this country needs!

[CentristDemocrat]

24. Um, no.

Elect Kucinich, why? So we can get destroyed in '04 and look like idiots?

[Mairead]

27. And here's another basher heard from

Do you guys think you're actually accomplishing something?

[diamondsoul]

30. Oh they probably think they are.

The sad thing is it's the exact opposite of what they are hoping to do.

By the way, on something related to your basenote, standing up for what's right- I took my girls to the pediatrician today. I just looked at the invoices and am stunned. $430 in charges for two checkups and normal shots.

I'm lucky, I have insurance so I was charged $50, $25 per child. Most of my time there was spent waiting for the nurse and the doctor to do their jobs. Looking at those invoices makes me wonder about all those people without insurance. How the hell do they take good care of their children's health? That's one thing I'm hard-core about. I've spent nights in ERs, one night I spent in two different ERs with a 4 yr old in so much pain she could not stop crying. The doc at the first ER claimed there was nothing wrong. 2 hours later she had a fever and she was crying her eyes out from the pain. Needless to say we went to another ER. I can't imagine what we'd have paid if we didn't have insurance.

$50 is even a good chunk of cash around my house. It's good for a weeks worth of bread, milk, macaroni and cheese, cereal, eggs, and chicken nuggets (the 2 yr olds current staple food). $50 for 2 hours time, and that same $50 could just about feed my kids for a week if it had to. Then I thought about what if I had needed to buy a prescription! Holy crap, that would have broken me for the next two weeks.

Which candidate was it again who doesn't want me to have to choose between medicine/healthcare and food? I think his name was... Dennis Kucinich.

Standing up for what is right, fearlessly and consistantly.

[Tinoire]

33. No

So we can destroy the Centrist hype and the grip that tiresome little organizations like the DLC have on our party and look like we stand for something :)

So we can win once again. :)

[LWolf]

53. Say it again, Tinoire!

That "centrist hype" is what sends many of us looking for 3rd parties. We want a party that believes in and stands for something other than looking as much like the moderate repubs as possible.

One of Dennis' big assets is that he gives us that from within the party instead of without. If you to Kucinich meetups and events and talk to the crowds supporting him, you will be astounded at the number of people he is drawing back into the fold.

I'm heading down to Studio City to a peace party tomorrow. I met with my local dem group...a very small (4-5 people!) active club in our heavily republican area. They all said, "we love Dennis, we started with him, but we are afraid he isn't electable." My job finally becomes clear...lend some confidence to the local activists!

When Dennis wins CA, Tinoire, I'll meetya halfway for a party.

[no name no slogan]

38. Don't believe the hype

Dennis has repeatedly won his largely Republican district (39%) with a solid majority of the vote-- last time he won by ±70%!

So tell me again how it is he can't win against the Republicans? :)

[jiacinto]

39. Well

They honestly think Americans are as far to the left as they are.

[diamondsoul]

45. Actually, I don't just think that,

I'm quite certain of the fact that MOST Americans eligible to vote are indeed as far left as we are. That's precisely why we only have a little over 50% voter turnouts, because us lefties have nothing in the race to vote for.

[Mairead]

49. That's my intuition as well

and it's borne out by the people I've chatted to in groceries, etc. They say 'what's the use, they're all the same'.

[genius]

28. Dennis is awesome

We are lucky to have the opportunity to work for Dennis.

[Mass_Liberal]

46. Which states do you think Kucinich can win?

I like the guy, and I'm not going to say he can't win. But from the mouths of kucinich supporters, what states can he win? Is he even close to a lead in any major state? Does he have a state by state strategy?

Peace:dem:

[Mairead]

47. As far as I know, he's looking for all the states Gore won, plus Ohio

These are the states where he's been getting at least some press:
- California
- Connecticut
- Florida
- Illinois
- Iowa
- Maryland
- Massachusetts
- Michigan
- Nebraska
- New Hampshire
- New Mexico
- North Carolina
- Oregon
- Pennsylvania
- Texas
- Utah
- Vermont
- Washington
- Wisconsin

He's now got at least rudimentary campaign organisations in most 'blue' states, and people are starting to come together. It's a slow process, because Dennis really was drafted. He hadn't been planning to stand and didn't have anything in place nationally. His 'Prayer for America' ADA speech was what started the draft, but most of us who were in on it aren't experienced political organisers. So we're having to make it up as we go, and there's a lot of lurching around in circles and bumping into one another as we gradually sort it out.

If there's one millstone problem he has, it's the 'I'd vote for him but he's unelectable' claim. It's illogical rubbish, but very difficult illogical rubbish to overcome. If people would use their loafs, they'd realise that it's voting that determines 'electability', not the other way around. But not many are bright enough to do that.

[diamondsoul]

48. I'm going to reiterate what I'm most certain of-

The polls showing who is in the lead at this time are meaningless to me. I KNOW most Kucinich supporters will not be polled at all, therefore you won't see an accurate representation of his standing in any given state.

If you want an accurate sign of Kucinich support go to the Newsday poll. They've restarted that poll three times now, and each time Kucinich has come out of the gate leading the pack. The most recent restart was to get a clear result after Clark jumped in. Last time I looked there were some 170+ responses. Kucinich got 168, I believe.

No we aren't "freeping" the poll either. While we're aware of the poll and watching it closely, it's not a huge secret, and has been referenced several times on DU because of the results. Even with all this, I don't consider that poll particularly accurate. It's obvious to me that for whatever reason Bush supporters, Dean supporters and many others are not voting in it. That doesn't mean I don'tbelieve Kucinich can win, but I have difficulty believing his margin of internet support is THAT high.

I cite it not because it reflects anything completely accurately, but because it does prove Kucinich has more support than most realize.

[lams712]

54. KICK!!!!!!

DK IS THA' MAN!!!!!!!

[hippywife]

56. Dennis makes me proud

to call myself an American again. Haven't been able to be proud of that in such a long time. His sincerity is head and shoulders above any candidate running. He wants to serve the people, not just hold the office. :)