Screw All This....I'm Supporting Kucinich

[rucky]

I still like most of the candidates ok... and ALL the candidates are getting bashed on GD. Some of it is flame bait, some of it is justified. All of it is sickening, and it's just a glimpse of what we're going to see in the general election.

So far, the worst criticism I've heard of DK is that he's "unelectable". No dirty deals. No controversial votes. Just "unelectable". Well come the general election, that's the easiest criticism to defend, if you ask me. Sort of a non-criticism.

Maybe he is unelectable. that's been my rationale as I've been supporting Howard Dean, but secretly rooting for DK.

Unelectable. Is that the best the flamers can do? And we know they dig pretty deep to find some dirt. Cleveland broke? who cares...and easily defendable. abortion? big whoop. We know he's not preaching abstinence over real sex ed.

How about his record of total consistency in his opposition of Bush policies? The most impressive of all the candidates, if you ask me.

I always used to say, "in a perfect world, I'd support DK." Well screw that, I'm going for him now. Because if I wait for a perfect world...

Even if he doesn't get the nomination, I will have voted for the best man for the job. And who knows, if enough people do the same, maybe the world would be a little closer to perfect.

[mmm]

1. Thank you for the no jibba jabba heads up!

Kucinich is still the best man by far.

[TakebackAmerica]

2. I respect you

I'm happy your not one of the "I'm voting for the devil over that Clark asshole" people.

DK is a great man.

He is a true unabashed liberal. Those are the best of people.

[rbnyc]

3. Glad to hear it!

This is what the primaries are all about, a chance to tell the party where our values really are.

[Chico Man]

4. Throwing away NAFTA would likely create havoc within the Western Hemispher

Sure, it makes sense "in principle", but has he even thought of the consequences for such a drastic maneuver?

[no name no slogan]

10. So what if NAFTA dies?

All that would happen is that we'd go back to bilateral trade agreements with Canada and Mexico, just like we had prior to NAFTA.

I think it's a common misunderstanding among many folk that Dennis wants global trade to disappear after NAFTA and the WTO are repealed. All he is saying is that these agreements are fundamentaly flawed, and should be scrapped and new, fairer agreements put in their place.

Other than some extreme John Bircher-types, I don't think anyone in the US is advocating for closing the borders to trade.

[Chico Man]

17. I agree with you there

But he has said again and again his first act as president would be the cacellation of NAFTA. It is almost like that in and of itself is an admittance by DK that he is unelectable.

I am not extremely well educated on free trade or the world economy but making drastic maneuvers like this, in my opinion, be very bad for other countries and it would severely interrupt the status quo.

Not that interrupting the status quo is a bad thing, but it is probably done better with patience and time. DK seems to be standing by on principle. If he actually were elected, would he really cancel NAFTA on his first day? He has burried himself into a hole there...

[Mairead]

20. What he'll do is initiate the 6-month countdown.

Getting out of NAFTA and the WTO won't--can't--happen the day he's sworn in. But the getting-out process can be started the day he's sworn in, and that's (roughly) what he's promised to do (the actual promise is to start the get-out as 'one of his first acts', so maybe it'll be the next day, or later that week).

But just starting--or even completing--a get-out process doesn't create a vacuum. All countries that want to can go right on pretending that NAFTA and the WTO still exist, even though they don't and even though they're negotiating new treaties. It's the same as working to an expired contract, only not as obnoxious.

Setting the wheels in motion won't End Civilisation As We Know It.

[SEAburb]

29. Kucinich supporters are true believers in rosy scenrios

and completely ignoring the complexities of reality.

[Mairead]

30. And another empty bash from the peanut gallery

G'wan home, kid, your mother's calling you.

[SEAburb]

31. do you have "any" doubt that Kucinich's trade policy would

be successful and have a positive effect on the US economy?

[MrPeepers]

35. I certainly do.

Free Trade is absolutely nessicary to the future of the American Economy. Not only is it beneficial to the US and global economy as it allows specialization and maximum possible satisfaction of demand, the WTO and NAFTA prevent the type of thing the Bush Administration has been trying to pull with the steel tariffs and so forth. That's awfully brief and simplified, but that's my base reasoning. I could never support a candidate that placed the dissolution of NAFTA or the WTO as a possibility, much less a top priority.

Peepers

[Mairead]

36. The short answer: no. It worked for hundreds of years before Clinton

...so why should it suddenly cease to work?

Are you aware that the WTO has a 'court' that can nullify national and local laws? Are you aware that that 'court' is a secret triumvirate with no democratic accountability? Are you aware that the 'free trade' provisions of NAFTA apply only to big corporations, not to the Mexican farmer who wants to cross the border and sell his melons in El Paso or Chula Vista? Are you aware that 85% of all corporate profits go into the pockets of the wealthiest 10%, with 40-50% going into the pockets of the wealthiest one-half percent? Are you aware of what all that implies about the function of the WTO and NAFTA?

[MrPeepers]

39. No,

it did NOT work for hundreds of years before Clinton. As time goes on, applied economics evolves as our understanding of economics and our ability to implement more effective policies based on that understanding evolve. Yes, I am aware of that 'court.' No, I have no problem with it. The WTO may have that power, but a) that power, should it interfere with local or national law has thusfar been ignored by, for example, the U.S. Gov't and the EU, and b)what laws will they be striking down that this would be such a grave injustice to the American people? It's not as if the WTO is going to repeal child labor laws. Also, all WTO delegates swore an oath which bound them to obey the UN charter and obey Int'l law. This means that every treaty that is signed cannot be struck down by the WTO. Hence, all the numerous international agreements regarding workers rights cannot be violated by WTO mandate. Might I add that these "big corporations" employ vast numbers of workers in Mexico, jobs which those people would not have were it not for NAFTA. And since when did the U.S. Government place tariffs on the farmer's melons? The mexican farmer can't sell his melons in the U.S. because the U.S. Gov't can't regulate the manner in which he produces his crop, and thus can't ensure the safety of the produce. Are you aware that "corporate profits" does not mean the entirety of the revenue made by a corporation, but only that which is left over after doing things like paying the employees? It's not as if 85% of every penny that goes in the doors of a major corporationg goes straight to the money-grubbing executives. Who are the people who control those major corporations? The wealthiest 10%. They control the business, they get their cut of the profit. That's just how the world works. If NAFTA were repealed and the WTO ended, would it change this? No. Just like you said, that's how it worked for hundreds of years, getting rid of the WTO or NAFTA isn't going to change that. So yes, I'm aware of what you are implying, but I am also aware that you are wrong.

Peepers

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. Kucinich is the one

http://cronus.com/prayer




Click Here To See Fair & Balanced Buttons, Stickers & Magnets!>

[no name no slogan]

6. Welcome aboard!!!

You've pretty much summed up my reasons for why I'm supporting Kucinich. It seems all that his detractors can come up with is that he used to be anti-choice and that he's "unelectable"-- whatever THAT means.

Not only did Kucinich defeat a popular Republican incumbent in his first run for US Congress, he's consistantly won in a district that is heavily Republican (39%)-- last time he won with ±70%!!! How could that NOT be electable?

Unelectable like Paul Wellstone was, perhaps. They painted that label on him in 1990. I campaigned for him all through his first Senate candidacy: from precinct caucus through to the state convention and on to victory in November. Kucinich and Wellstone are very similar in many ways. They both have that same fire, the same passion-- and they're both short, too! :D

Anyway, glad to came around to Kucinich. I hope you'll do some campaigning or donate some time or $$. Best of luck!

[no name no slogan]

7. Welcome aboard!!!

Submit ONCE, not twice. Sorry for the dupe :P

:toast:

[xJlM]

8. You got it right, man

I took a look at the candidates some time ago, and I really couldn't find anything I can't accept about DK. He's got my support, until he says otherwise.

Notice this: I am a gun owner and quite capable of defending my own property, even in a sustained battle. And I know DK's position on guns doesn't really match up with me AT ALL. But that's a really small thing, compared to taking America out of the market for the "World's Biggest Bully" award, healthcare for every American citizen, and an end to Repug-lite trade practices like NAFTA.

[LWolf]

41. Good point.

I'm not a gun owner, and shouldn't own one; I'd shoot myself or my neighbor by accident trying to figure out what to do with it.

But I don't believe there is ever a candidate that represents 100% of our take on the issues. None of us are clones. Yet. So I choose the candidate that comes the closest. For me, that means choosing the candidate that sees the "big picture" the way I do, if I can find one. If our ultimate goal is the same, differences over the details can be worked with.

Dennis has cast 2 votes I don't agree with. Two is a small number in the big picture. His votes, words,and actions that I do agree with far outnumber those 2, and outnumber what the other candidates have said and done. He really does see the same "big picture" for our country and for the world that I do. So he has my support.

[Cocoa]

9. Kucinich has solid support at DU

some people have been with him from the start.

I'm with Gep, but :toast: to Dennis.

[Fovea]

11. Welcome to the right thing to do.

We can do it, because it is the right thing to do.
More importantly, a lot of people want to live in Dennis Kucinich's America, and many of those who don't can already afford to live somewhere else.

It is not that I do not like the other candidates, but I have not heard someone state the best solution to America's problems point by point all in one place in this race except Dennis.

[rucky]

16. Thanks, Folks!

Wow...the dirt washes off pretty easily. Back on track now.

:)

[DemBones DemBones]

33. I love your statement that ". . . a lot of people want to live in

Dennis Kucinich's America, and many of those who don't can already afford to live somewhere else."

It's so true. You really should send it to the Kucinich campaign!

[mitchtv]

12. that my friend is what primaries are all about

voting for who you want to be president. I am personally disgusted by the tone and divisionism here at DU. I can hardly log on. There is a way to discuss inter-party choices, and the candidates are showing no leadership, by allowing their minions to behave like, frankly like little Tucker Carlsons , and little Bob Novaks to each others. If I wish to see good(all, even Joe L) dems trashed I could go to local media, I don't need it from 'allies'.The only candidte who have behaved in a civil manner, so far, are Al S and Carol, both 'unelectable. I intend to vote in the General for whichever, as i think any one is better than the nitwit resident we have now. So c'on kiddies , if you have nothing good to say about your candidates, there must be nothing to vote for.

[CMT]

13. and why shouldn't you?

Be for DK and proudly so.

[goodhue]

14. a winner

Kucinich is a winner because he builds Wellstone-like grassroots campaigns against bigger-spending opponents. He is a winner because of his blue collar roots and populism, reflected in his battles for heartland voters against unfair, corporate-friendly trade deals.

He is an unabashed progressive who wins because swing voters who don't agree with him on every issue still see him as a fighter for their interests, as someone who will put the interests of workers and middle-class consumers ahead of big-money interests. No Democrat is better positioned in 2004 to attract 'Reagan Democrats' and swing voters with a frontal attack on how Bush policies hurt them and favor the rich.


http://www.kucinich.us/electable.htm

[kayell]

15. Welcome to the bright side

:hi: It's nice to find a candidate that you can truly be proud to support.

[Rowdyboy]

18. Glad you've made your choice...

that's what primaries are for, deciding who will lead our party. Everyone gets one vote, unless they live in Florida or are a minority. How you use yours is your prerogative and I think you made a good choice.

[Mairead]

19. Welcome to the Bright Side, Rucky!

I have a huge amount of respect for your conversion, because you're doing it now, when it's hard.

[genius]

21. Good for you. That's why I'm supporting him too.

To me, it's a matter of conscience to vote for the best man.

[AnAmerican]

22. I applaud your decision

I will also state that we will see more of what you exhibited today.
More people, looking at the candidates with a critical eye, will decide to openly support Dennis. Good things are happening, including a major fundraising event this weekend....over 1000 Peace Day parties. The campaign is doing what is necessary to bring people around, and it is working.

Thanks for your post.

[LWolf]

23. Cheers!

Yes! You have said exactly what I've felt, thought, and tried to say all along here.

Welcome to the realm of hope, Rucky. We know...if enough of us act on our hopes, the world will be a little closer to perfect.

:toast:

:hi:

[Mairead]

24. bump

[diamondsoul]

25. *crossing my fingers* I hope this doesn't break

whatever lucky streak this thread has been carrying, but I'm stunned that none of the usual nay-sayers has come to bash your hopes and drive.

Possibly because your statements were so absolutely right on the mark there's nothing to argue with. ;-)

[diamondsoul]

37. ROTFL Well alllllll-righty then!

I shall never wound a thread with a post like this one again!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Good for you.

GD and P&C bashing will have zero effect on the election, btw.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. For twenty years, I have asking

"Why don't the Democrats get some guts and try to reverse the Reagan/Bush policies that have damaged this country so badly? Why can't they be as bold as the Republicans are?"

I went to hear Dennis Kucinich speak in St. Paul just out of curiosity, since I decided that I would go hear any Dem candidates who came to town to speak publicly.

Ten minutes into his speech, tears were streaming down my face.

For the first time in twenty years, I heard a Dem presidential candidate answer my questions with, "We will and we can."

No one else in the field even comes close at this point.

[hippywife]

32. I did too!!

I was already a Dennis' supporter but as I sat here and watched the first release of the campaign video: This is the Moment, I actually cried out of sheer relief. Oh, finally!!

More Dennis audio and video here (Thanx, Gianni! :) :

http://www.fluxrostrum.com/MindFlux/DennisKucinich/

And welcome to you, Rucky!! Our ranks grow with each passing day. I knew they could and would! :)

[cyclezealot]

28. Me too

My second choice is Carol Mosley Braun..Hell with it.Kucinich can't undo NAFTA the country is going down anyway. After Cancun, we can't see WTO has no future. We are being screwed and so is the Third World.
NAFTA, WTO, Healthcare, the War.. The rest of the 9 dwarfs I either do not trust or disagree with too much.. Recent Nation article on
"Dean-pooliza" is a gem. Shows what fakers these dwarfs are.
Kucinich can't win.. You have not heard him speak.. He is the only one who will cause me to not forget to vote on General Election day..

[DemBones DemBones]

34. That's great news! If we want a "perfect" world, we need to work for

it and I think it starts with supporting the best candidates, the candidates we believe have the best ideas, instead of the ones the media wants us to like.

WE are the people and WE decide!

[MercutioATC]

38. You SHOULD vote for your first choice...that's the way things change

Mine's Dean. Yours is Kucinich. What's important is that we both are supporting the candidate that we feel will make the changes that are important to us. Don't let anybody tell you that you should support somebody more "electable".

Best case for Kucinich (or any other candidate)...they win the nomination.

Worst case...they don't win, but have their views heard by a lot of people, which is one of the first steps in change.

Regardless, if a candidate shares your views, support them, "electable" or not.

[LWolf]

40. Rucky and all DK supporters:

Head over to this thread and tell me what you think:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=2498