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BushGone04 Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 01:30 PM
Original message
My two cents on the debate
First, I'd like to say that, overall, I was very, very pleased with the performances of all ten candidates yesterday afternoon. I agree entirely with one of the commentators on Hardball after the 9:00 MSNBC airing, who said the real winner yesterday was the Democratic Party. Now then, on to commentary on the candidates.

First, although I admit I'm a bit biased, I thought Kerry's performance was excellent. He was calm, poised, presidential, and put his debating skills on display in a couple of his exchanges with Dean and Gephardt. I thought he did a very good job outlining his plans (although he sometimes needed more than his allotted time to do so :)), and that, when he criticized other candidates, it was on policy differences and not personal grudges. The commentators on the aforementioned special debate edition of Hardball seemed to sgree with me: three of the four said Kerry came off as the most presidential- although, in fairness, I should point out that one of them was a Rep from Tennessee who's helping to head up Kerry's campaign and another was Joe Scarborough.

I also thought Dean did pretty well. He defended himself nicely, if a bit too angrily, from Gephardt's Gingrich comparison, and, for the most part, turned in a solid performance. I must confess, however, that I did have to laugh at his response to Gephardt's attack (which, for the record, I think was pretty baseless). Apparently, Dean was shocked- shocked!- that any Democratic candidate would stoop so appallingly low as to compare another with a reviled Republican leader. Presumably he will now be removing the word "Bushlite" from his vocabluary and telling his supporters to stop bringing "Busch Lite" beer to Kerry's campaign rallies. Again, I think Dean did a good job, and that the Gingrich comparison was unnecessary and wrong, but the hypocrisy of that comment irked me a bit.

Clark, although he did avoid giving a direct answer to most of the questions put to him, actually surprised me with what seemed to be a pretty respectable depth of knowledge on domestic political issues. We have to remember, folks, this guy has been in politics for nine days, and this was his first debate. Considering that, his showing was quite good, and I think he'll make an excellent addition to the field.

Gephardt, in my view, didn't have his best performance. He seems to me to be even more shocked by Dean's success in Iowa than Kerry is by Dean's lead in New Hampshire, probably because Dean also comes from a neighboring state to NH, while Gephardt was planning to run away with Iowa. As a result, he seems to be really desparate for a way to knock Dean down, and I really don't think there was much of a factual basis behind the Gingrich comment (if I'm wrong there, if Dean really was a supporter of Gingrich's Medicare plan during this time, somebody please let me know). In any case, Gephardt really seems to be getting desparate, and I don't think he did especially well.

I really, really don't get why Edwards hasn't been getting more support in the polls. He's a very impressive speaker with Southern roots and a great middle-class story, and while it's true that his policy experience is limited, he has more of it than Clark, who seems to be leading national polls now. I thought Edwards was solid again last night.

The other candidates all did pretty well too. Kucinich, Graham, Sharpton and Braun all made their points fairly well, but right now none of them seem to have the support or fundraising that will be necessary to win the nomination. Graham particularly impressed me- he certainly has no Elvis factor, but the man knows what he's talking about.


Anyway, that's just my opinion. Feel free to chime in with comments or disagreements or whatever.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dean was the best Republican in the debate
His desire to let the middle and lower classes shoulder the burden of paying for Bush's war was outrageous.

I'm really proud of the Democrats who stood up to him.
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UnapologeticLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You sound like this complete idiot who came into our chatroom yesterday
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 02:02 PM by UnapologeticLiberal
A supporter of one of the other candidates came into the Dean chatroom yesterday and started saying what you are saying. This person said "I have no money, and if they take away my tax cuts, I don't know how I will be able to eat." I gently pointed out that if he/she was really too poor to eat, he/she probably did not see much money from the Bush tax cuts. Plus, I should have pointed out that if he/she was really starving, he/she ought to maybe think about going grocery shopping before paying the internet connection bill.

Hey Dean supporters: yesterday I issued a challenge to everyone to pick a dollar amount to donate each time Dean got attacked during the debate. Should we extend it to all the idiotic anti-Dean posts here? That would get the bat to $5 million in no time!


My Goal: $500
Achieved: $400
Contribute
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Vikingking66 Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. the idea is to let the rich do that
87% of the Bush tax cut went to the extremely rich.
Repeal the tax cut reduces the current burden on the
mc and wc people of America.

Why can't people understand that there really isn't
much difference between the candidates on that?
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. I thought all the candidates did well
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 02:04 PM by wryter2000
I'd like to know who hired the goons to ask the questions.

Candidate: To pay the 87billion I'd repeal the tax cuts that have benefitted the richest Americans.
Goon: (the bald one) So, you'd repeal the middle class tax cuts.

Candidate: To pay the 87billion I'd repeal the tax cuts that have benefitted the richest Americans.
Goon: (the woman) But this is a republican congress (shrug). So, what would you really do to pay for the 87billion?

:argh:
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The woman was the worst I think
she sneered the whole time, majorly rude IMO.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I liked that question alot, actually. It was right on target, true.
This is a Republican Congress and they will fight for their tax cuts for the wealthy tooth and nail.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. I thought Edwards did the best
Not only on style, but also on substance. I went back and read the debate transcript, and his answers were consistently on message and substantive. I also liked when he cautioned the other Dems on their anger getting out of hand, that it should be directed at Bush. It was a touch of class, although it's easy for Edwards to say this, not being in a bitter struggle in New Hampshire and Iowa {smile}.

I think Edwards is generally very good in these debates, not just this one. He is one to watch, his campaign could take off at any moment in my opinion.
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DemCam Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ok, I'll chime in..
This was my first opportunity to see a debate. I haven't chosen a candidate yet so here're my reactions:

Dean: A bulldog, even looked like one from time to time. Liked his fiestiness.

Kerry: Strange vibes. Goofy inappropriate grin sometimes. What's up with him? Wanted to like him.

Lieberman: Funny sometimes...but ICK! No go, Joe!

Gephardt: Very surprising that I liked him. Seemed earnest.

Clark? He did well but not great. But here's the crazy thing...I kept thinking about him long after it was over! He was the only one that did that to me...and is an indication that he has "something". Reservations about military...BUT...will keep watching.

Edwards: Sweet, some good comments...but no fire in the belly.

Kucinich: I am sorry to say he was absolutely my LEAST favorite!! Very disappointed. Bye, Dennis.

And Graham, MoselyBraun, and Sharpton...in my view are all interesting in the mix...but cannot win the nomination.

And I want us to find the candidate who can get rid of all Bushies for all time.
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. connected Senators and Congressmen should form a seperate primary..
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 09:15 PM by burr
this way they can get all these Superdelegates by winning this primary. After all..John Edwards, John Kerry, and Joe Lieberman all stuck together through those "real tough moments" in the last debate. Defending each other and the bad votes they made is now more important than defending the interests of the voters.

Kerry's bs about Dean cutting vets benefits is worse than O'Reilly's shit about Clinton causing 9/11. Even more off was Gephardt's claim that Newt's attacks on Democratic principles lead to our darkest hour. At least our party had the sense to eventially unite against Newt in that fight! Our darkest hour occured after shrub became President...but when Democrats didn't have the courage to unite in the fight against him on taxcuts, the invasion of Iraq, and then the Patriot Act.

Clark's best answer was on whether or not Democrats should approve the $87 billion for Iraq.
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JeniB Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Dean did side with Gingrich.
Here's an excerpt from a Dallas newspaper. It was at a time when Gephardt was trying to stop Gingrich and the Repubs from cutting Medicare and Dean sided with Newt instead of him, which is why he's the one to bring it up.


The cuts Dean described – reducing the rate of growth to 7 percent – was exactly what Newt Gingrich’s budget proposed. This would cut between $256 and $282 billion from Medicare: “Under the House and Senate plans, the annual rate of growth of Medicare spending would be cut from 10 percent to 7 percent… The Republicans say these changes would trim as much as $282 billion from Medicare.”

Source: Dallas Morning News, 5/15/95
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. this quote only proves why Dean opposed these cuts...
to suggest Dean sides with Newt Gingrich would be like suggesting 9/11 never happened.

A better example would be Joe Lieberman whom Newt Gingrich has all but endorsed, or John Kerry who has been endorsed by the sister of Paul Tsongas..another Gingrich favorite!
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Edmundo Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Gingrich-lite looked cranky...
Dean - Gingrich-lite looked as cranky as ever! :-) I agree with him on getting rid of the Bush tax cuts but that will be hard to sell in the general election. He is favorite to win the nomination but I'm scared of the picture that Rove can draw of Dean.

Kerry - I am not a full supporter of Kerry but I think he is the candidate with the best chances to beat Bush. To do that he needs to win the nomination which is something that I'm not sure he can achieve. I think he did well and he seems to be the most consistent of the front runners.

Clark - I'm trying to keep an open mind about Clark. He was vague most of the time... I hope to see more in the next debate or I will start losing interest. However, he deserves a chance to get his plan together.

Gephardt - Why doesn't he just drop out? He looked desperate when attacking Dean...

Braun - I like her! She was awesome with the small amount of questions she received.

Lieberman - I would never support him but I have to say that I was impressed by his performance.

Sharpton - The "officer and the gentleman" comment was the highlight.

Edwards - Made his points well and I would not be sad if he won the nomination. Talk about substance, Edwards has lots of it!

Graham - did well but not electable, unfortunately.
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. if you think Rove's picture of Dean would be scary...
think of the frightening picture Dean can paint of shrub just using the 3.3 million jobs lost since passing the taxcuts, the massive deficits, and the national security disaster produced during the last three years. :scared:
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