New Newsweek Poll - No Bump for Bush - Clark leading

[seamarq]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/972703.asp?0cv=KB10

<snip>

On the political front, retired general Wesley Clark remained in the lead as first choice for the Democratic nominee for president in the wake of the debate this week among all 10 declared Democratic candidates. Clark has support from 16 percent of Democrats and democratic leaners (up 2 points from last week’s poll). He is followed by former Vermont governor Howard Dean (holding at 12 percent) and Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (holding at 10 percent). Missouri Congressman Dick Gephardt is now in fourth place at 10 percent (up 2 points from a week ago), while Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman has slipped 3 points, to 9 percent.
Among registered voters, Clark continues to beat the other Democratic Party candidates in how he would fare in an election against President Bush, although all of the candidates—Clark included, would lose to the incumbent. This week Clark polls at 43 percent to Bush’s 49 percent (a 6 point gap), while Kerry polls at 42 percent to Bush’s 50 percent (an 8 point gap). Dean and Gephardt fared worst, with Bush beating them each by 14 points.

[burr]

1. it doesn't take rocket scientists to see why they are out to destroy Dean,

Lieberman, Kerry, and Gephardt are all seeking to replace Dean as the challenger to Wesley Clark.

Dean and Kerry have been uneffected by Clark's new campaign, while it is clear Gephardt has received a insignificant boost. Lieberman has received the hardest hit. Clark seems to be drawing the same moderate and nonideological voters that Lieberman, Graham, and Edwards were trying to win.

Wesley Clark is having the exact effect on this primary that the DLC, good ole Terry, and the Friends of Bill hoped he would...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

2. Disagree Strongly

Clark jumped in because he was called to serve, not as someone else's puppet. My take:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=377795

Obviously, some may disagree, but I am 100% convinced.

DTH

[burr]

11. did I state he was someone else's puppet???

I just pointed out the widely known fact that those who finance the DLC and those who were active contributers to FOB have been pushing Clark to run with the recognition that Lieberman was a lost cause.

I don't buy the claim that Clark jumped in merely because he was asked to serve...that is not how a trained modern military mind works! Just remember how those who started the draftclark movement have now been reduced to a backseat role.

<http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/09/franke-ruta-g-09-25.html>

[DoveTurnedHawk]

12. One Disappointed Person's Theory

Does not equal the truth. MY take is that Newberry had expected to vault into a leadership position, and was disappointed that the professionals were given the nod. Additionally, quotes for this article were shopped around, and John Hlinko, the head of the DWC movement, has stated publicly that he was taken out of context. Others have come forward indicating the reporter was only looking for dirt, and didn't take other points-of-view into mind.

I stand by my earlier post. This was not orchestrated. It was a genuine grassroots movement, and the General was genuinely called to serve.

DTH

[burr]

13. I agree...

and this is why we disagree on Clark, my case is based on facts...yours on disappointment and confusion.

knowledge=power...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. Oh Please

Give me a break. Your "facts" are anything but; even the obviously disappointed person you quoted in that article (which had a clear agenda, based on the subsequent reports of people interviewed for it) admits it was merely a theory.

My position is based on personal experience and knowledge of the man's speeches, past and present positions, actions and those of the people close to him. You might want to try it, Burr.

DTH

[burr]

15. try what actions...like voting for Reagan and Nixon???

Are you suggesting I try voting for Shrub?..forget it mate! :thumbsdown:

[seamarq]

3. Yawn...

Sorry, the right wing conspiracy theories are getting tiresome. Having watched the grassroots efforts of the Clark campaign for a number of months, I will need a lot more proof of any DLC connection.

[izzie]

6. I think Clark will fad. Not sure why I think that.

:silly:

[Squibbie]

4. Most interesting stats

in this article were the results of the online poll.

Look at the difference in the results of these two questions.

If you are a Democrat, who would you most like to see nominated as the Democratic Party's presidential candidate in 2004?

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark 43%
Former Vermont Gov. 22%

4. Regardless of which Democratic candidate you might personally support, which do you think is most likely to unseat George W. Bush if nominated?

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark 61%
Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean 10%

You have to take the poll to see the entire results..
I know these online polls don't mean squat, but these results surprised me.

Any responses?

[seamarq]

5. Sorry, not an online poll.

<snip>

The NEWSWEEK poll was conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates, which interviewed a total of 1,004 adults by telephone on Sept. 25 and 26. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points overall.

[Squibbie]

7. This was the online poll

portion of article which quoted the NEWSWEEK poll. Go halfway down the page for the online portion.

[seamarq]

9. No, this was not an online poll

If you read the article, it reports the results of the Princeton Survey Research Associates poll. Yes, there is an online poll link halfway down to "see how your opinion measures up".

[w4rma]

17. The scientific numbers are not those. They are these

The percentages in blue represent the results of the national poll, not including your responses. The black numbers are results from this online poll and include your responses.
...
If you are a Democrat, who would you most like to see nominated as the Democratic Party's presidential candidate in 2004?

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark 16%
Former Vermont Gov. 12%

4. Regardless of which Democratic candidate you might personally support, which do you think is most likely to unseat George W. Bush if nominated?

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark 28%
Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean 12%
...
http://www.msnbc.com/news/972700.asp#survey

[Duder]

8. Clark would perhaps be our most vulnerable candidate

"Pollsters note former Gen. Clark leads only in surveys where he is named by his military title."
http://politicalwire.com/archives/003054.html

Clark has enemies at the pentagon and Rove will no doubt bring out plenty of generals to tarnish and strip away the superficial appeal. Resumes don't win elections and so it would come down to who's the best politican, imo.

[seamarq]

10. What good Democrat doesn't have enemies at the Pentagon?

Rove will launch dirty attacks on any candidate we nominate.

[Duder]

16. True, but...

I was referring to military enemies such as bringing out two 4 star generals to topple one. In doing so Rove could easily negate/neutralize the one perceived advantage Clark has. A political novice heading the Democratic ticket would be more of a gamble beating Bush then it is a sure thing. So he could represent as much and maybe even more risk of any of the candidates, imo.