Interesting Op-Ed about John Kerry

[KaraokeKarlton]

Here's part of the article...

The truth is more likely this: Kerry caved in to what he
believed to be his political interests. Last year, many
Democratic strategists were advising their congressional
candidates to vote for the war. Kerry, whose most transparent
flaw has always been calculated ambition, probably believed
that his presidential aspirations would be better served by
a "yes" vote on the resolution.


The irony, of course, is that the opposite turned out to
be true: With young Americans dying daily in Iraq, the
public has a more jaundiced view of the invasion than it
did several months ago. Kerry lost the bet.


And that may be just what he deserves. There are some issues
that are simply too important to be put through the calculus
of political odds-making, and a vote to send the nation to
war is certainly one of them. As distasteful as it is to
watch Republicans bash gay marriage to placate fundamentalist Christians, or to watch Democrats demagogue on Medicare to
win over seniors, neither of those issues has the significance
of a vote to go to war.


The consideration of invading a sovereign nation -- and putting
young Americans in harm's way to do it -- ought to be the sort
of issue in which a man or woman votes his or her conscience, regardless of the political ramifications. If John Kerry failed
to do that, he doesn't deserve the presidency.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1317&ncid=742&e=11&u=/uclicktext/20031107/cm_ucas/kerryplayedthepoliticaloddsandnowitappearshelost

[Cocoa]

1. I disagree

it's not very interesting. It's just speculating about his motives, without any evidence.

Unless the evidence is elsewhere in the article, for which the link didn't work for me.

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. I'll try to fix the link

It was to a yahoo news story and was so long it made the page really wide, so I tried to link to it from the text. Let me go dig up the link again.

[polpilot]

4. Exactly. Kerry could just not be 'smart enough' to figure it out. Give

'em credit.

Dean '04...Smart Enuff to figure it out!!

[Cha]

3. I think it Is "interesting" and Cynthia Tucker and I

seem to agree.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HPLeft]

5. Can't Agree

Today's New York Times story, about how Hussein was ready to fold in February, but the Bush Administration wouldn't take yes for an answer, demonstrates that Kerry's logic was absolutely correct. The treat of force was going to be necessary to get Hussein to come clean. That Dubya used that threat recklessly has everything to do with Dubya, and nothing to do with Kerry or Hillary or Chuck Schumer, or anyone who had the responsibility to vote on that resolution.

Dean talks so shamefully out of both sides of his mouth on Iraq that he has lost all credibility except with the true believers in his campaign.

[killbotfactory]

10. What did Hussein need to come clean about?

... ? That he wanted to have WMD's but didn't?

The inspectors found nothing, even with our intelligence giving them minimal help. Other nations around the world didn't buy our intelligence, and we alienated the world and turned people against us. Oh yeah, brilliant move giving Bush the okay to wage a war when he made it clear he would go in with or without the UN and was being advized by people who publically promoted invading Iraq before 9/11.

With brilliance like that, who needs stupidity?

[DrFunkenstein]

7. Kerry (and Daschle) Were Pissed That The Vote Was Rushed

When a questioner said Kerry implied that Gephardt had compromised too easily with the White House, Gephardt replied that the president had made it clear he would not accept a "two-step" process that required him to come back to Congress for authorization of force.

"I was impressed with the administration argument" that a definitive resolution from Congress was needed before Bush could seek U.N. Security Council support, Gephardt said.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0221-03.htm

Given that the Bushies were on the defensive after Cheney's "saber-rattling" at the VFW, it was likely that Biden-Lugar would pass, but it was unclear if that would make Dems look obstructionist. Kerry didn't give a damn. He wanted it done right, but the rug was pulled from below by the Rose Garden folk.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. "I will not have my vote hurried needlessly. Instead I'll vote 'No.'"

Simple.

[virtualobserver]

24. the biggest suck-up of all was Gephardt........

he undercut the minimal leverage that Dashchle had.

Of cours that recent "voice vote" on the $87 billion for IRAQ showed that nothing has changed in the Senate.

[blm]

8. That's how the BFEE works. Tucker has done this before. No surprise.

.Daily Howler, Mediawhoresonline, Josh Marshall and even the NYT have already dispelled the lies spread here.

[Egnever]

9. what lies?

kerry jadd a choice yes or no. Clearly he knew what the better choice was but he chose to vote the wrong way anyway fot political gain.

Bad choice and he is where he is today because of it.

Its a shame realy cause he has done a lot of good in his career. He would probably make a decent president. We will never know now cause he chose to play politics with peoples lives.

[blm]

17. Horseshit. He paid for a better bill with his vote.

Something that only ignoramuses can't grasp.

Iran, Syria, the UN and Kofi Annan know that Kerry and other Dems got a better bill than the blank check Bush wanted.

[dajabr]

18. Without Kerry's vote...

The Moon would be gone...

Here's the crisis Kerry had the leadership to avert:



Way to go Kerry!!! Thank God we only vaporized Iraq because of you!

[killbotfactory]

11. I pretty much agree

Kerry fucked up and just digs the whole deeper when he makes excuses for it.

[Octafish]

12. So what? Cynthia Tucker wrote a stupid anti-Kerry column on Sept 21, too.

And shw was wrong then. Funny how hard Cynthia and the rest of the establishment press is working to denigrate John Kerry. The fact is Kerry voted to protect the national security interests of the United States. If you want someone to blame for mucking up Iraq, it's George Bush Sr., Saddam Hussein, and George Bush Jr., in that order.

[dajabr]

21. If Kerry had voted "NO"

He and Lieberman would have been the only 2 candidates at the Debate Tuesday...

Odd how life works out sometimes...

[DrFunkenstein]

13. Let's look at some of these distortions, shall we?

During the debate, Kerry answered questions thoughtfully enough, but he didn't distinguish himself from his colleagues. He is the candidate who has most befuddled the odds-makers. Pegged the front-runner a year ago by pundits and political consultants, he instead finds himself pushed aside by Dean in New Hampshire and Richard Gephardt in Iowa, both states with crucial early Democratic primaries.

Pegged the front-runner and not given an inch of positive media coverage, who chose to focus instead on why he was too aloof to eat a proper cheesesteak. Damn that liberal media!

Over the course of the last year, Kerry has occasionally claimed that Bush misled him and his fellow senators, but that answer makes Kerry sound gullible -- not the sort of man you'd trust to protect the country against the likes of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) and Kim Jong-il. (The president did engage in dissembling and distortion to win support for his war, but Kerry was in a position to know that.)

This is bullsh*t. Bush's "misleading" statements came after the vote and Dean agreed with him.

The truth is more likely this: Kerry caved in to what he believed to be his political interests. Last year, many Democratic strategists were advising their congressional candidates to vote for the war. Kerry, whose most transparent flaw has always been calculated ambition, probably believed that his presidential aspirations would be better served by a "yes" vote on the resolution.

Again, ignoring his absolute consistency, and his repeated calls to delay the vote until Biden-Lugar was negotiated.

The consideration of invading a sovereign nation -- and putting young Americans in harm's way to do it -- ought to be the sort of issue in which a man or woman votes his or her conscience, regardless of the political ramifications. If John Kerry failed to do that, he doesn't deserve the presidency.

Does John Kerry's conscience sound like this?

“While we should always seek to take significant international actions on a multilateral rather than a unilateral basis whenever that is possible, if in the final analysis we face what we truly believe to be a grave threat to the well-being of our Nation or the entire world and it cannot be removed peacefully, we must have the courage to do what we believe is right and wise.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 11/9/97)

[burr]

14. interesting how Kerry's handlers have screwed him...

Kerry had the opportunity to make himself the Robert Kennedy of this race. Instead he played it safe, figuring that he better not "risk" his status as frontrunner. He voted for the IWR because he feared that he might end up like Harkin and Bob Kerrey did when they voted no on the Persian Gulf War Resolution, ten years before. However...this is hardly what did those primary candidates in! And despite the fact that he opposed Shrub's taxcuts...he introduced a proposal which would only repeal some of these taxcuts, even though he approved all of Shrub's budget busting war!!!

And now...he never addresses an issue, unless he polls it first! What once made Kerry a frontrunner was the fact that he was seen as the fresh alternative to shrub..a veteran liberal who would fight the hard battles, while not playing it safe. But compared to Dean, Kucinich, and even Clark...Kerry's golden opportunity has been tarnished.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. Kerry made his own decision on IWR

That he depended on handlers to do so is quite an insult and the product of fantasy.

[burr]

16. I agree with you 100%...the decision was as much his as it was shrub's!!!

"The consideration of invading a sovereign nation -- and putting young Americans in harm's way to do it -- ought to be the sort of issue in which a man or woman votes his or her conscience, regardless of the political ramifications. If John Kerry failed to do that, he doesn't deserve the presidency."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. The more interesting thing is that he still stands by that vote.

Does anyone here still think this was a good idea (vote)?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. A threatened use of force is always good if it achieves an end

Kerry didn't declare war or order aninvasion. Bush did. And as was evidenced in the news today, Iraq was moving quickly to avoid war. Bush however jumped the gun. Don't hold Kerry responsible for Bush's poor restraint.

[dajabr]

23. Kerry could never have guessed Bush would start a war...

Without having a clue about PNAC.

Psst... don't tell anyone I told you where to find this secret blueprint - it's classified!

http://www.newamericancentury.org/


I bet you Kerry doesn't even know any of these people. Sure, that's the ticket!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Of course Kerry didn't declare war.

He just facilitated it.