Dean says Gep is "scaring seniors, just like Democrats have always done"

[Cocoa]

Am I crazy, or is "scaring seniors" a Gingrich-era republican talking point?

I wasn't realy paying attention at the time, but I do remember that line, I heard it a lot.

And didn't Democrats start Medicare in the first place, and haven't they been defending it from the republicans, who always hated it and have been trying to destroy it?

But more to the point, who uses the phrase "scaring seniors"? Do any other dems talk like that?


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec03/iowa_11-20.html

HOWARD DEAN: One of the things you find when you're in the lead, you often find yourself taking buckshot of out your rear end. ( Laughter ) Do not believe all these things politicians are telling you: "He's going to cut this. He's against Medicare." Well, God knows what else they said. It's not true.

MARGARET WARNER: Privately, he expresses frustration at Gephardt's attack.

HOWARD DEAN: He's scaring seniors with talk about Medicare, just like Democrats have always done.

MARGARET WARNER: He says you said it was the worst federal program ever.

HOWARD DEAN: I did. Because it was the worst administered federal program ever doesn't mean I want to get rid of Medicare. You would never get rid of Medicare in your right mind if you're a physician. But it's a badly run program and it needs to be fixed.

MARGARET WARNER: What about the things that he's saying about you, that you have changed your position?

HOWARD DEAN: Of course I've changed my position. You'd have to be an idiot not to change your position based on facts. I was a supporter of NAFTA and a supporter of WTO. But the evidence is they haven't helped working people in America. They haven't created more jobs.

more...

[virtualobserver]

1. it's true.....

When Tsongas was running, Clinton did that in Florida.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

2. I love this quote:

"HOWARD DEAN: Of course I've changed my position. You'd have to be an idiot not to change your position based on facts. I was a supporter of NAFTA and a supporter of WTO. But the evidence is they haven't helped working people in America. They haven't created more jobs."

[sandnsea]

3. What facts? What evidence?

What specifically has he presented as evidence to explain why he's changed his position? And what exactly does this mean? Is he now supporting repealing NAFTA and getting out of the WTO?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. The question wasn't about NAFTA or the WTO anyway, it was about Medicare.

In the nineties, Dean supported the Domenici plan to cut Medicare. Does he still favor that approach? That seems to be the question that he avoided.

[Cocoa]

9. it could work for campaign finance too

he could say "I'd be an idiot to stay in the program, now that I have the most money."

[phirili]

4. Medicare is a potent example of why the Federal Government must not

be allowed to run National Health Insurance – Governor Dean- State address 1-7-93

Now Candidate Dean:
HOWARD DEAN: I did. Because it was the worst administered federal program ever doesn't mean I want to get rid of Medicare. You would never get rid of Medicare in your right mind if you're a physician. But it's a badly run program and it needs to be fixed.

What will be the next word by Howord

[Zynx]

10. That is a consistent statement in some respects.

The administration of medicare is terrible and thus he was saying that the federal government should not run a health insurance program. His backtrack is actually that he is now supporting federal health insurance.

[dsc]

11. i would like an actual citation for this

clearly you have one and I can't find it with the info you gave.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. What does that mean? An 'actual citation'?

phirili cited " Governor Dean- State address 1-7-93" - what is not 'actual' about that? lol

[MidwestTransplant]

5. Scaring seniors...Sounds like a line from *'s campaign in 2000

[DrFunkenstein]

6. My Favorite Revision:

MARGARET WARNER: He says you said it was the worst federal program ever.

HOWARD DEAN: I did. Because it was the worst administered federal program ever doesn't mean I want to get rid of Medicare.

MARGARET WARNER: Well, why the hell didn't you just say that at the time?

[phirili]

7. Dean statements on Medicare are indefensible ; in Vermont when

Dean was Governor his negative medicare statements are well known.

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. Do you live in Vermont? I do

And Dean has NEVER been against Medicare or providing those sevices to seniors. He's been very frustrated with the half-assed way it's run. I love how people who don't live in my state take it upon themselves to present themselves as some kind of "authority" on things here. :eyes:

[Cocoa]

21. only Vermonters can talk about Dean's record there?

Vermont is the only place Dean has a public record, him not being a "Washington politician."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. The unsubstantiated impressions of an anonymous poster who says

she's from Vermont are much more valid than newspapers, public records and speeches...

[KaraokeKarlton]

24. Apparently if you want to hear the truth that seems to be the case

As a Vermonter, I am thoroughly disgusted at the level of lies being spread around this site about my state. If people who don't live here want to talk about Dean's record they should at least make the effort to get the facts straight before posting. Too often it's quite obvious that many of those who choose to talk about Vermont post one sided and horribly inaccurate sources. I find it very offensive as someone who lives here and knows what is true and what is a lie about Vermont and Howard Dean.

[Cocoa]

25. I spent about a month in VT a few years ago

There was a lively Dean debate within the family I was staying with.

Very broadly, most of the family was kind of the "granola" type, they hated Dean. The Dean defender was, broadly again, a "yuppie" type in-law.

Anyway, that's my anecdotal Vermont/Dean observation, and I've read stuff that paints a similar picture.

[KaraokeKarlton]

34. There are two "types" of Vermonters who "hate" Dean

They are the radical right and the radical left. If you ask anyone in between those extremes what they think of Dean they will most likely have very good things to say about him. There would be some light and fair criticism as well, but also the utmost respect and admiration.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. My brother is a Vermont Republican

voted for Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush ... maybe he's lying to me about Dean's record along with the Vermont newspapers... :eyes:

[sandnsea]

26. What about HMO's and Medicaid?

Has he been for that in Vermont? And what does he think about HMO's in general? And does he think government should manage state health care in Vermont, or should private companies, like HMO's, deliver it? And what about medical lawsuits and being able to sue HMO's, or medical lawsuit caps in general? What did he want to do, or what did he do, about lawsuits in Vermont?

[KaraokeKarlton]

35. Here's how it's been...

Dean has been a champion of extending Medicaid and making it a middle class entitlement. He's had a great deal of success, too. The state programs started off with a bit of "trial and error" to see what worked best. Initially, everyone on Medicaid and in the state programs got to choose between two plans. A lot of the poorest Vermonters seemed to be kind of "overwhelmed" by the choice and had difficulty getting a handle on how things worked. It didn't seem to work with the private companies taking a bigger role, so things got changed around so the state government plays the bigger role now. Lawsuits are a tricky issue. Unfortunately there have been many people who have abused this option for recourse. When that becomes a problem something has to be done to prevent the costs such frivolous lawsuits cause. Basically, a few assholes make things more difficult for the honest people. Dean takes a common sense approach to issues like these. He acknowledges what is right with things and criticizes what is wrong with them. He looks at the facts and makes a decision based on the facts. That's just how it should be.

[sandnsea]

37. HMO companies left Vermont

It didn't work. They didn't make enough money. Is that what we get with Howard Dean? He looks at Republican plans, does some trial and error, scraps them, and then blames Real Democrats because a bunch of Reagan Democrats supported those Republican plans in the first place?

Your Deanish condescension is showing by the way. Poor people were overwhelmed by the choices? They're just too stupid I guess. It was an economic failure, not a failure of implementation.

[hedda_foil]

12. Picked over nits

I swear, sometimes you guys remind me of entrail readers. Crounching over ten-year-old leavings and trying to divine some occult meaning from them. It's just too funny.

[AP]

13. Dean's actual words and his record and political beliefs are "leavings"?

I think you have directed the word "occult" at the wrong people.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. If we were to ignore Bush's record and just believe his campaign speeches

he'd look wonderful too.

[blm]

32. Yep...Bush's campaign speeches didn't match HIS record, either.

And it's nice of the media to hold Dean to a similar standard as Bush in 2000. Too bad that teflon is due to expire.

[Jerseycoa]

19. Me & Wes, we don't care, either

"I don't care whether 10 years ago Howard Dean supported one position or another on Medicare," Clark said. "Frankly, it's irrelevant, and I wish people wouldn't keep harping on it." - Gen. Wesley K. Clark, November 12 2003

:shrug:

[blm]

14. That's Dean reverting back to type. Libertarian leaning, GOP asskisser.

Why anyone believes his sudden emergence as a populist reformer when his lengthy record of governance shows the EXACT OPPOSITE, is truly amazing.

[Cleita]

17. I'm a senior and I'm scared.

He can speak for me any time because he is echoing what we feel.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. Those evil Democrats.

Dean continues to amaze. If he is nominated it will be the death-knell of the Democratic party.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. It must be really infuriating

to have a candidate so indefensible that you can't talk about him and his record when responding.

[Larkspur]

36. It must be infuriating for you watching your candidate's campaign in the

throws of what pilots call the "graveyard" spiral.

Let's see, Dean was re-elected 5 times, was Vermont's longest serving governor, got all if not most children covered with healthcare, and Dean is somehow a Newt Gingrich wannabe? Does not compute.

[JohnKleeb]

28. "Scaring seniors"

Cocoa, I swear I have heard that before. Just sayin.

[killbotfactory]

30. So, is medicare horribly run?

or isn't it?

Would a doctor be in a position to know, having had to deal with it?

Hmm...

Have NAFTA and the WTO created jobs and helped America?

Hmm...

Nah, better not think about that. It's much more important to just call Dean a flip-flopping baby-eating demon from hell, or whatever.

[Cocoa]

31. doctors can be wrong

in fact, their interests can directly oppose the interests of the country as a whole.

For example, the AMA, the largest assosication of doctors, strongly supports the republican attacks on medicare, inlcluding the most recent legislation that all democratic candidates including Lieberman oppose:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/article/1751-8171.html


Which brings up a question that occurred to me when Dr. Dean held up his stethoscope, what is his relationship with the AMA? Is he a member, has he in general supported their positions, on what positions of theirs has he differed with them?

[Zomby Woof]

33. well you know Dean

He's a divider, not a uniter. :-)