Clark Best Against Bush

[Jerseycoa]

President Bush would receive a majority of the U.S. popular vote in matchups against the six most popular Democratic contenders if an election were held today, a Time magazine/CNN poll found.

In a direct run against Bush, retired Gen. Wesley Clark would get 42 percent of the vote compared with 49 percent for the president, according to the poll. Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts placed second, drawing 41 percent to Bush's 49 percent.

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Rep. Dick Gephardt of Missouri would win 39 percent to Bush's 52 percent. Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina would receive 38 percent to 52 percent for Bush, the poll said.

Dean remains the top draw among registered Democrats and those leaning toward the party, winning 14 percent of the vote, followed by Clark and Lieberman. Clark received 12 percent of the tally, and Lieberman 11 percent. Kerry dropped to 9 percent from 16 percent in early September.



Time/CNN Poll Nov-18-19, N 1507, MOE 2.5% 4.7% Dems

[Skwmom]

1. Why did the Republicans win in California?

Because they backed the person with the best chance of ousting Davis. I'm beginning to wonder if the Democratic party will ever get its act together.

[Kolesar]

2. 'Cuz the electorate does not know the candidates yet

I recall that the "unnamed Democratic Party candidate" does best of all.

[dkf]

3. I don' care about Clark anymore

Clark's comments on Dean's "Vietnam skiing" yesterday when Dean was repatriating his brother's remains were sick.

This is from a friend of Charlie Dean's: "John Caron told me recently that in 1971-1972, after his graduation from Yale, Howard spent a lot of time in Carrboro (North Carolina) with Charlie. The popular press says Howard was a ski bum in Aspen that year."

Yeah so Clark thought it was a joke. Well it was crass and low and he should have known it was beneath him.

I wouldn't be so pissed if it had been any other day, but Clark had no respect on a day that Gov. Dean was in great pain so I will pull no punches here.

Clark has been caught in a few not-funny jokes lately. And you know what they say: a joke is half truth/half lie. People turn things into jokes because they cannot say what they feel without being a youknowwhat.

[Jerseycoa]

4. I agree

It was a throwaway line and taken out of context, but, yes, beneath him.

[Vis Numar]

5. I agree

I can't believe he listened to that scumbag Lehane and said that shit. Fuck them, can't wait to beat the shit out of them now.

[Jerseycoa]

11. Well, now

Let's not talk about the topic of the thread. That might really hurt.

[slinkerwink]

6. yes, it was beneath Clark......

tsk...

[FrenchieCat]

20. And Dean...

is the poor innocent whipping boy that everyone wants to beat up on...whawhawah...

Yes, Dean, the one that is innocent as pure virginal "above the Frey" wonderful Vermont white delightful and pleasantly fragile SNOW!

SNOW JOB IS MORE LIKE IT!

This below doesn't detail the many times Dean called Clark a Republican until 25 days ago.

At least Clark's comment is not based on a LIE!

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0C16FD3C590C778EDDA00894DB404482

NATIONAL DESK | September 24, 2003, Wednesday
Dean Takes The Offensive In Comments On Clark

By JODI WILGOREN with EDWARD WYATT (NYT) 802 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 25 , Column 1
ABSTRACT - Howard Dean, whose campaign for Democratic presidential nomination has been built on antiwar message, questions antiwar credentials of Gen Wesley K Clark, whom polls show at top of 10-member Democratic presidential field; intensifies attacks on Pres Bush, condemning his record on court appointments, race, education, domestic security and war on terrorism; photo (M)

[Kahuna]

8. Did sensitive Howard <sic> give a damn about Kerry's

cancer treatments when he was attacking him? I wouldn't waste to much pity on Howard Dean. Clark knows better than most what a disengenuous and insensitive, opportunistic person Howard Dean is.

That said, where was this quote by Clark published? Is there a link? It really doesn't sound like Clark.

[Jerseycoa]

9. No link

It was on a radio talk show, but I don't have a link. Apparently the host started it by asking if Clark would compete against Dean on the slopes. "He's been skiing longer than I have," Clark said. "Actually, he was on the slopes while I was recovering from my war wounds in Vietnam."

That's about all there is to it as far as I know. It was a poor joke, but a joke.

[Kahuna]

10. I found the story and have a link.. Of course...

The context is totally miscontrued. What's new about that? </sarcasm>
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20031126_1422.html
"Clark also took a slap at Dean when a radio interviewer jokingly asked if he'd be interested in a ski competition between candidates.

"I didn't have as much practice skiing as the governor did. He was out there skiing when I was recovering from my wounds in Vietnam," Clark said on WNTK radio."

[PROGRESSIVE1]

14. No sympathy for Dean here!

Clark 04'

[blm]

18. Nope, while Kerry was down from cancer surgery Dean was attacking

him regularly. What a GOOD Doctor...so sensitive to a patient's recovery. You know..stress is bad for recovery and all. No matter that Kerry was OFF the campaign trail, Dean still saw it as an opportunity to smear the longtime liberal Kerry as "Bushlite."

[KittyWampus]

15. Dean Using His Brother's Remains As A Way To Snipe At Clark Is Disgusting

That Dean's campaign would use Dean's dead brother as a way to make a dig at Clark is loathsome.

A reporter asked Clark a question abourt skiing and Clark answered WITHOUT ANY ATTACK.

And yet his comment is blow out of proporation and Dean's campaign is tasteless enough to bring Dean's dead brother into this.

[Kahuna]

7. This is pretty consistent. THIS is the message we have to

get out. The media won't do it for us. They will do everything they can to obscure the truth.

[curse10]

12. Clark is moving up on my list

I think he and Kerry really do have the best chance of beating w.

[MrSandman]

16. why Kerry?

Clark does appear to have the best chance of beating Bush. I see Kerry having similar chances as Dean. Clark will attract swing voters that Dean or Kerry will have trouble attracting.

[blm]

17. Kerry consistently does as well as Clark in one on one matchups.

Dean does the worst.

[MrSandman]

19. I've seen that

popularly, but I've not seen the electoral pattern. I assumed, maybe naively, part of the reason for Kerry's strong showing greater strength in NE and far West?

[Kahuna]

21. That's what the polls show. They show that Clark and Kerry..

do the best against bush.

[PSU84]

13. Electoral Math: Why Dean Can't Win

The electoral match is pretty bleak for any Democrat - and worse in
2004 than in 2000 because the results of the 2000 census moved
several votes from the Northeast and Midwest to the South and the
West. Nevertheless, there would be significantly fewer states "in
play" with Dean as the Democratic candidate than there would be if
Clark were the nominee. By my count, Bush starts off with 129
electoral votes from states that are "reliably red" and is likely to
win another 108 electoral votes from states that "lean red". That
adds up to 237 electoral votes. Either Dean or Clark (or Kerry or
Gephardt) is likely to start off with 76 electoral votes from states
that are "basically blue." There are another 125 electoral votes in
states that tend to "lean blue." That adds up to 196 electoral votes
that might reasonably to be expected to go to a Democrat if he or she
runs a strong campaign and Bush is still fighting a hopeless war in
Iraq. That leaves only 100 electoral votes that are pretty much "up
for grabs":

Illinois 21
Michigan 17
Missouri 11
Ohio 20
Penna. 21
Wisconsin 10

I think MO is really only in play for Gephardt or Clark. So, that
leads to this scenario:

Dean is sure to lose:

Alabama 9
Alaska 3
Arizona 10
Arkansas 6
Colorado 9
Florida 27
Georgia 15
Idaho 4
Indiana 11
Kansas 6
Kentucky 8
Louisiana 9
Mississippi 6
Missouri 11
Montana 3
Nebraska 5
New Hampshire 4
North Carolina 15
North Dakota 3
Oklahoma 7
South Carolina 8
South Dakota 3
Tennessee 11
Texas 34
Utah 5
Virginia 13
Wyoming 3

Total 248
Need to win 270

And so, Bush wins if he carries any 2 of the states that are up for
grabs. But, if Clark is the nominee, the following states are likely
to go from likely wins for Bush back into the "up for grabs" column:

Arizona 10
Arkansas 6
Colorado 9
Florida 27
Kentucky 8
Louisiana 9
Missouri 11
North Carolina 15
Tennessee 11
Virginia 13

Total 119

Clark puts at least two western states, two border states, and
possibly as many as six southern states in play, while Dean has a
realistic chance of turning no more than two of these states - CO and
maybe MO over to the blue column. In other words, Dean starts off
with at most 201 electoral votes to Bush's 248 with only 89 seriously
in play for both of them. Clark would not lose any state that Dean
would win, giving him tha same 201 electoral votes leaning his way
and as many as 208 more in play. Dean starts at such a huge
electoral disadvantage relative to Bush that he MUST win Pennsylvania
AND Illinois AND Ohio AND either Wisconsin or Michigan, or he must
win Wisconsin AND Michigan AND Illinois AND Pennsylvania.

Dean simply cannot win. Clark can.