The hypocrisy of the Boomer Cons

[Narkos]

I'm constantly amazed at a group of people who were the beneficiaries of the greatest economic expansion this country has ever known (New Deal) whose politics now are directed at dismantling the very programs that allowed them to prosper. These people would be the Wealthy Baby Boomer conservatives who buy into the "Less taxes, less government, less brown people" lock, stock, and smoking fucking barrel. Their selfishness has allowed them a secure retirement, while their children are drowning in debt to just maintain a semblance of a "middle class" lifestyle. Can someone please explain the psycho-pathology at work here?

[lligrd]

1. Not So Sure About Their Secure Retirement

as retirement funds go bust. But your question is a good one.

[Juche]

2. I've wondered about this myself

I don't get it, I would gladly make sacrifices for my nieces.

It reminds me of a passage in whats the matter with Kansas where the author says something like

"Dedicated men who are devoted to their families go out and vote to ensure their kids will never be able to afford healthcare or a quality education. Proud farmers vote to push themselves off their own land by corporate oligarchies."

I don't get it, who votes for politicans who have no interest in making sure the next generation has access to healthcare or education, or that we are winning the war on terror by fighting it intelligently? Luckily the GOP is an old married white wo/man party. And the new millenial generation is far more progressive, so hopefully we can reverse alot of the damage that they did. But it'll take a decade or more.

[ananda]

3. for my family, it's a rural white thing

They don't want tax money or social
programs or laws that help level the
playing field for minorites and immigrants.
Nor do they want separation of church and
state because they truly believe that their
xtian fundie brand of religion is the majority
and that that is the basis of this country's
heritage. Ughh.

My white grandparents and their children
took everything the New Deal had to offer,
and considered Roosevelt God.

And then they turned into the worst kind of
racist, narrowminded, christian, smarmy,
patriotic, conservative, family-minded,
greedy, mememe people ever. They never
really urbanized but always retained something
of the rural mindset and lifestyle, living
in exurbs or smaller towns and cities....

Some of them made a lot of money as business
executives or in jobs that require a college
education. But they can't think their way out
of a paper bag and have a serious anti-intellectual
bias.

What else.. let's see.. oh yeah, they believe
strongly in the American dream and in the value
and purpose of hard work.

The only thing is that they are part of the culture
of white privilege and just don't get it that a lot
of people do not have that sense of arrogance and
confidence in their own rightness and sense of power.

It's as though their minds and lives were confined
inside a small shell and cannot grow or see things
through the heart and through a mind tempered and
refined by liberal and humanist thought which is
the only way to grow and change.

Sue

[Warpy]

4. Uh, those weren't Boomers, hon

the generation that presided over the dismantling of the New Deal were the very people who had benefited most from it, those who were kids during the Depression and who might or might not have fought in WWII---you know, the "greatest generation."

Boomers by and large didn't vote in sufficient numbers because of all the barriers put up to voting, like having polling places near their homes and not their jobs on a workday--you know, the stupidity that the GOP loves to continue like it was set into stone and passed down from the mountaintop and through the ages because it keeps working people from voting.

Please think about what you're saying before you start typing. Older boomers, the ones who saw 5-7 years at the end of the New Deal before the OPEC oil shocks wrecked the economy, tend to be leftists.

It was the second cohort, the ones born after 1955 and who missed the 60s, who bought GOP snake oil and settled for money instead of justice.

(Yes, I know people who post on this board are exceptions to the general rule, you don't have to remind me again)

[Narkos]

11. That's weird, I thought George Bush was born in 1946?

I agree that those born in the 1930's have also been in engaged in dismantling the New Deal, but weren't they also beneficiaries of those programs? And wasn't there a consensus even among Republicans back then that the New Deal policies were here to stay (ie.Eisenhower). My point is not to start a flame war, or to denigrate the entire baby boomer generation, but can you really back up the statement that the older boomers are necessarily more progressive? My point was that we have a generation of Americans who would not be where they are today if it were not for the New Deal, yet they vote against not only their own interest, but that of their children and grandchildren as well. I was wondering why. Sorry if I offended you, though

[Warpy]

15. There are exceptions to every rule, which I thought my

parenthetical comment made clear.

There were YAF and Ripon Society meetings in the colleges, even in left wing schools around Boston. There have always been a few of them, the whiny, clingy, fearful, tattletale toddlers grown up as the longitudinal study showed. Stupid had the added disadvantage of being Babs's son, with all the funny equations of the rich and boozy dinned into his soft head from birth.

RTDP.

[TalkingDog]

12. Lingo Alert. These folks probably don't know about the 4th turning or the K wave

So, second cohort and those kind of references might not explain anything to them.

But I'd agree with your broad sentiment. As folks are wont to do, the ones who got the help can justify needing it because "it was different" for them.

So the rest of you don't need any help, because obviously it's all better now you lazy, shiftless whipper-snappers. Now get off my lawn!

[Narkos]

13. Intellectual snob alert...lingo that has nothing to do with the subject at hand!

Pardon me, but enlighten me as to how the theories of a Soviet economist have anything to do with the hypocrisy of the wealthy conservatives who benefitted from social wages and now want to dismantle them? Another thing, we're all on the same team here (or at least we should be). If you have something to add to the discussion, please educate me. I want to learn and grow, but I think alienating younger progressives with a superiority complex is truly a bad idea. Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past, and kick people out of the progressive tent.....we handed to the conservatives too many victories with that kind of bullshit.

[TalkingDog]

20. Excuse me? Was I even talking to you?

And the answer would be NO. If you actually pay attention instead of posting your snarky premature ejactulations, you'll see that I was responding to Warpy's use of a term that presupposes knowledge that some may not have.

So back the fuck off.

[Narkos]

21. Thanks

Maybe next time instead of being an such a asshole, you can explain "second cohort" and k waves and what not. Sorry about the premature ejaculations, but the whole "these folks" by which you mean "these ignorant boobs", kind of justifies my point.

[TalkingDog]

23. I have always expected that the people on this board are

filled to the brim with intelligent curiosity. In other words: Look it up yourself, I've got a life.

That might give me an opportunity to change my mind about you being an (in your words) "ignorant boob".


Ignorance is curable with a little effort.
Stupidity is not.

and while we are tossing around bromides:

You draw more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

(Though why someone would want to draw flies is beyond me.... And come to think about it, wouldn't shit work even better?)

[Narkos]

25. Hey, thanks again

Just ignore my posts in the future. Clearly you are way too busy to offer any links or even point someone in the right direction. And let's face it, these concepts are obviously way beyond the grasp of the average DU'er. Hey, why even bother asking questions at all when you have the google, right?

[TalkingDog]

26. You didn't ask a question

about my post regarding the 4th Turning or the KWave.

If you had written:

Excuse me, what are you talking about?

or

???

or I might have even accepted:

Hey, that's not what I'm addressing here, WTF?


But your mistaken reply to me rightly suggested (in an attempt at condescension) that I think I'm more intelligent and educated than (some) other people on this board. That's technically and literally true by certain measures and in certain areas of study.

As a teacher in one of my professions, I have no problems sharing information in a class room setting or when ASKED. And that brings us back to the original point. You did not ask.

Your subsequent replies to me did not include questions either. I got rude demands that I spoon feed readily accessed information.

As for your suggestion that I ignore you, that would imply there was something to ignore. This is an informational (and occasionally an instructional - as in this instance )exercise for me. I don't attach a personal or emotional value to it.

But if one requires a response: I respond to consideration and rudeness. Each in their due measure. You will find many on this board follow the same guidelines.

Welcome to DU.

[Warpy]

22. Your premise was wrong

I corrected it and explained why it was wrong.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeating it.

The New Deal held the wealthy back, although the richest still managed to get richer at a rate greater than inflation, even with a 90% top tax rate. The wealthy had a great stake in overturning it.

The destruction of the New Deal hammered the older cohort of Boomers, who also bore the brunt of the oil shocks, the doubled Social Security payments that were stolen and used to pad Reagan's budget, 35 years of depressed wages, stolen pensions, and the destruction of both the social contract between employers and employees and the social safety net.

The only rich old Boomers out here are the ones who inherited it, and they'd have been the same no matter when they were born. Look at the Bush twins for that kind of entitlement.

I'm sick of defending this stuff to people who know how to read and really should know the history of the New Deal and who exactly was responsible for dismantling it. It wasn't the Boomers, who were prevented from voting by the stupid laws that make it difficult for people who were still working. It was their parents who began to retire and vote in great numbers in the late 70s and early 80s.

Now you have the choice of clinging to a demolished premise or looking this stuff up for yourself and forming a new one.

[Narkos]

24. I see your point, but that that's not what I was talking about

First of all, there are plenty of older boomers (1945-1949) that are wealthy and didn't inherit it...my parents are a perfect example (airline pilot/nurse), so I disagree that all wealthy boomers are trust fund kids. Second, my point was that many of the CONSERVATIVES in that age group did benefit from many social programs or at least their parents did. They owe their middle class status to government largesse in their earlier years. Also, the New Deal still hasn't been totally dismantled, so in what sense are the baby boomers of today still not trying to dismantle it? Didn't GW try to privatize social security? And so what if the older boomers tend to be leftists? ( and please provide some data backing up that claim) That wasn't even my point. They are not a homogenous group politically, we all understand that. I'm saying that there are conservative Baby Boomers that are hypocritical when they criticize government efforts to mitigate economic insecurity, especially since it was those very programs that helped propel them to where they are today.

I really think we must be talking past each other, since I don't really get the anger behind your attempts to "debunk" my post. What's that all about? Doesn't it grate on your nerves to hear a WEALTHY boomer talk about how much of a commie Roosevelt was? What is your deal? Did my words offend you personally or something?

[abelenkpe]

18. I do feel like my parents don't get

why their children seem to be less successful than themselves despite growing up with so much more, better technology, better educated. I think they think we are spoiled and lazy. Or in my case just dumb with money. My dad has always felt that I am too timid and financially impaired because I haven't leveraged myself as much as I could. I have no debt aside from my student loans, but also no house or big screen tv. My pop has lived his whole life in debt and been more than comfortable doing so. So that statement is so very right on!

[abelenkpe]

17. my parents

definitely fall into that category. Oddly they began as democrats but have turned into parrots of faux news and rush limbaugh. My dad was born in 43 and my mom in 47. I think according to the book "The Fourth Turning" that makes my mom an early boomer and my dad a very late greatest generation. They personally never associated themselves with the boomer generation classification.
Anyway, I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think this mindset is something only attributable to a particular age group. I know growing up in Northern Virginia taught mostly by liberal hippies the majority of my clasmates ended up growing up and becoming conservatives working for the defense industry. Which supports the whole generational model in that kids from my age group (born in the late 60s and early 70s) became whatever the opposite of what they percieved their parents to be. But could also be seen as a result of the type of work prevalent in the area. Luckily I found my way west to sunny california land of saner more humane minds.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. They wanted the tax cuts to coincide with their 401k distributions

They are paying the lowest tax rate in decades, after having deferred paying taxes during most of their earning years, when rates were much higher. We Gen X and youngers are in the reverse situation: We're deferring taxes at a low rate, but will probably get screwed when it's our turn to retire because someone will have to pay for the boomers' party.

[diane in sf]

7. I'm a boomer and I feel just as screwed as you. Every time I start to get ahead

some Republican gets into office, screws the economy and I have to use big hunks of my savings just to maintain while I train for/look for my next job. When I came out of college in the mid-70s there were no jobs, no one I know had a real job until the early 80s.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Actually, you're right. It's the generation right before the boomers who are making out

They were born in the 30s and 40s and are retiring right now, and paying historically low tax rates on their retirement investments. So yeah, the boomers will be screwed too. :(

[MADem]

10. I take some of those folks to the polls, and a lot of them are barely making ends meet.

They're being taxed out of their homes and they are on fixed incomes--costs for food, fuel, insurance, you name it, are forcing them to struggle to hang on. They don't want to leave their family house, OR they know they won't get shit for it in this market. The value goes down, but the taxes sure as hell don't.

[alittlelark]

6. They got theirs (mostly through inheritance)...

And SCREW YOU if you didn't.


The Enlightenment and Renaissance came about due to the reactions of those witnessing the uber-greedy in action.

They decided to rise above the lower animals..... those currently in power wish to societally de-evolve.

:mad: :puke:

[MADem]

9. There are Gen X-cons, and Gen Y-cons, and whatever the hell they call kids today CONS.

The difference is, most of those boomer cons came to it LATER. When they were safe from war. When they got greedy and wanted lots of dough--greed is good. Gordon Geckko, that foolish crap.

At least while the draft was going on, those guys were Democrats, by and large.

Every generation has selfish bastards. It's just how it is.

[Hannah Bell]

14. What is this "generation" stuff?

As if everyone in each birth cohort voted the same, had the same interests, received the same benefit?

It's class.

It's not a conflict between generations, & framing it as one is counterproductive to solidarity.

[truedelphi]

16. I don't understand how their mind works

Of course, many of the team players in the neo con movement are doing fabulously in terms of material wealth. It is amazing to know people who have gone through a public school system and benefitted handsomely from it, and then turn around and act huffy abt the fact that these days the public school system is paid for by tax payers (As if it wasn't when they were growing up?)

And don't forget, many of the Vichy Dems are in the same camp, actually. Does Di Feinstein care that the Iraq war will cost us two TRILLION dolalrs or m,oe, as long as her husband collects onhis 27 million in war contracts?

[leftofthedial]

19. I got mine

time to pull up the ladder



they are zealots, committed to a bankrupt ideology that allowed them to ignore their own bigotry.

[spooky3]

27. What is your evidence that these characteristics vary by generation?

Anecdotes aren't necessarily representative.

It may be that there is nothing to explain.

[Narkos]

28. No need for evidence

I wasn't trying to prove that the boomers are more or less hypocritical, just that some are. It's my own personal frustration with conservative relatives who happen to be boomers, not an attempt to characterize an entire generation.