Automakers can't afford to develop hybrids

[JohnWxy]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-11-19-automakers-delayed-hybrids_N.htm


By James R. Healey and Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY

LOS ANGELES — The arrival of more fuel-efficient cars and trucks promising cleaner air and more energy independence is being set back as automakers worldwide scramble to hoard cash in an industry meltdown.

Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Japan's Nissan Motor and France's Renault, on Wednesday warned that automakers "can't find the financing" for aggressive development of so-called green cars.

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New hybrids and other advanced technologies usually are small-volume vehicles and far costlier to produce than high-volume products. They typically produce lower profits and may lose money at first.

"All (the automakers) are struggling with cash flow. They have to decide what products to deliver," says Brett Smith, assistant director for technology at the Center for Automotive Research. U.S. automakers General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler are pleading for federal money to survive the downturn.

(more)

[glowing]

1. Then, I suppose they are obsolete. They are now a luxury for the very wealthy.

It is now up to our govt and businesses to invest in public transportation that works for the modern sprawl of America.

[ixion]

2. those who cannot innovate are f*k'ed

that's one of the first rules of business. There are smaller companies out there who DO offer hybrids... those companies should be allowed to thrive.

[louis-t]

3. That thought hit me this morning.

However, just look at which vehicles the big 3 chose to put hybrid engines in. SUVs, the cars they make the most money on. Wow, an SUV that gets 25 mpg!!! How impressive! :eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. This is not our boys, but NISSAN and RENAULT

readying wouuld be good

This is the effect of commercial paper going POOFF!

[LaurenG]

4. Aww I bet they could if the CEO's took a pay cut, sold their jets

and started doing their jobs. I bet congress would have tried to help them out without the delay they're facing now if even one of them had gotten off their high horses and stated they were going to make big changes and said "here's my plan."

[DCKit]

5. What a load.

They've had 30 profitable years to do the research and any company that doesn't have plans for hybrid or full electric drivetrains deserves to die a quick death.

The U.S. government paid out BILLIONS during the early years of the Clinton administration to the automakers for R&D. What exactly did they do with that money? Lined their pockets, paid dividends, padded their bottom lines and doled it out as executive compensation. None of the supposed advances made it into the cars.

[99th_Monkey]

6. This is TOTAL BULLSHIT!! Big3 are ALEADY MAKING 45-65mpg hybrids, just NOT FOR US CONSUMERS!!!

Chrysler:

One of the keys to restarting the American economy is staring us in the face. While our future hinges on the rapid adoption of fuel-efficient vehicles, our government stands in the way of a rapid free market solution.

35 MPG can be an immediate reality, with one domestic manufacturer, if the United States government would only allow it to happen. Our elected representatives need to be aware of the facts and make the appropriate decisions.

Chrysler is uniquely positioned among the Big Three US automakers. Unlike Ford and General Motors, Chrysler is already building a slew of high-MPG diesel-powered vehicles right here in the United States.

Amazing as it may seem in these difficult times, Chrysler is not allowed to sell those cars domestically, due to recently tightened emissions regulations. With the exception of the domestically-available Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel, all of Chrysler’s North American manufactured high-MPG diesel-equipped vehicles are being shipped abroad.

Each and every one of Chrysler’s European models is available with a diesel engine, with the exception of the Dodge Viper. In fact, a diesel engine can be found under the hood of more than 50% of the vehicles that Chrysler sells in Europe.

All-in-all, a dozen Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep diesel-engined models are currently available outside of the United States, but are not sold domestically.

Here’s the eye-opener … half of those models currently achieve 35 miles per gallon combined.

That’s 35 MPG … right now.

And what’s even more crazy? All of these 35 MPG cars and SUVs are built in North American plants by North American workers … American citizens cannot buy and drive the fuel-efficient cars they build.

The thriftiest of the bunch delivers nearly 50 MPG on the highway … and it’s no dog off the line, turning in 0-62 mile per hour (MPH) times under nine seconds. The fastest in the pack delivers 7.6 second 0-62 times and 35.6 MPG on the highway.

Needless to say, these are wonderful world-class cars, a world apart from your Uncle’s noisy, slow, smelly 80’s-era diesel.


The Mercedes-Benz V6 diesel-equipped Jeep Grand Cherokee is the first US-built passenger vehicle to meet the tougher Federal emissions requirements. With the emissions work done on the Mercedes’ 3.0 liter engine, we expect the Chrysler 300 to be the next diesel-powered domestic, as it shares the same powerplant. (At present, diesel 300s are being built in Graz, Austria.)

Chrysler is using four different diesel engines, in all:

2.0 liter Volkswagen turbo-diesel inline four (Avenger, Caliber, Compass, Journey, Sebring, Patriot)
2.2 liter Mercedes-Benz inline four (PT Cruiser)
2.8 liter VM Motari inline four (Cherokee, Grand Voyager, Nitro, Wrangler)
3.0 liter Mercedes-Benz V6 (300, Commander, Grand Cherokee)
What if the federal government temporarily rolled back the emissions requirements for one or two years, to allow the sale of these fuel-sipping vehicles while Chrysler and its partners complete the engineering necessary to meet the current regulations?

Crazier schemes have been implemented to stimulate the economy, no doubt about that. But this one just might work … by spurring investment and putting people back to work.

As you ponder that thought, take a gander at a group of specifications that compare the European diesels with the most fuel-efficient engines in each of the US domestics here:
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/03/15/35-mpg-why-wait-unt... /

Ford:

The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have
Ford's Fiesta ECOnetic gets an astonishing 65 mpg, but the carmaker can't afford to sell it in the U.S.

f ever there was a car made for the times, this would seem to be it: a sporty subcompact that seats five, offers a navigation system, and gets a whopping 65 miles to the gallon. Oh yes, and the car is made by Ford Motor (F), known widely for lumbering gas hogs.

Ford's 2009 Fiesta ECOnetic goes on sale in November. But here's the catch: Despite the car's potential to transform Ford's image and help it compete with Toyota Motor (TM) and Honda Motor (HMC) in its home market, the company will sell the little fuel sipper only in Europe. "We know it's an awesome vehicle," says Ford America President Mark Fields. "But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S." The main one: The Fiesta ECOnetic runs on diesel.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b409...


FRANKFURT — Ford of Europe unveiled three new alt-fuel cars here, the first of which we’ll see is the Focus ECOnetic model in 2007. It combines the latest common-rail diesel powertrain and other engineering features to reduce CO2 emissions to the absolute minimum. Powered by a 109-hp 1.6-liter Duratorq common-rail turbodiesel engine with a diesel particulate filter, the ECOnetic is gunning for around 54 mpg.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4...


GM

CHEVROLET EQUINOX FUEL CELL AND SAAB 9-3 BIOPOWER RECEIVE TOP HONORS AT MICHELIN CHALLENGE BIBENDUM 2007

The zero-gas, zero-emissions Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell electric vehicle is a fully functional crossover car that is powered by GM’s fourth-generation fuel cell propulsion system. It has a U.S. Environmental Protection Administration (EPA)-estimated range of 320 km (200 miles) per fill-up.

The Saab 9-3 BioPower flex-fuel vehicle runs on E85 fuel (85 percent bioethanol/15 percent gasoline). Bioethanol can be produced from a wide range of agricultural crops and biomass, including sugar cane in Brazil and corn in the United States. Unlike gasoline, its consumption does not raise atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide (CO2), the main greenhouse gas that contributes to climate change.

“These products showcase GM’s leadership position in the development of advanced vehicle technologies to reduce dependency on petroleum and boost vehicle fuel efficiency,” said GM China Group President and Managing Director Kevin Wale. “Their appearance in China demonstrates their potential for helping resolve challenges involving rising emissions and energy security in the world’s second-largest vehicle market.”

This is the fourth year that GM has participated in the Challenge Bibendum, an international forum where automakers, policymakers, media and other stakeholders discuss the future of sustainable transportation and demonstrate current and future vehicle technologies.

In addition to the Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell electric vehicle and Saab 9-3 BioPower flex-fuel vehicle, GM displayed the Opel Corsa 1.3 CDTI ecoFLEX, Opel Zafira 1.6 CNG, Chevrolet Tahoe 2-Mode Hybrid and Saturn Aura Green Line hybrid at this year’s Challenge Bibendum. GM also hosted a ride and drive for attendees and led panel discussions on key transportation and energy issues facing the world today.
http://www.gmeurope.info/social_media_newsroom/archives...

[JohnWxy]

8. OH my! I used the title of the article which did make it sound like Product developement IS OVER.-

IF you had read the article you would have seen that the point being made is you need to have some surplus cash to fund the Product development and that is pretty difficult in times of extremely low sales or if you are operating under terms of bankruptcy.

I even provided a quote from the article which makes that point. -

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"New hybrids and other advanced technologies usually are small-volume vehicles and far costlier to produce than high-volume products. They typically produce lower profits and may lose money at first.

"All (the automakers) are struggling with cash flow. They have to decide what products to deliver," says Brett Smith, assistant director for technology at the Center for Automotive Research. U.S. automakers General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler are pleading for federal money to survive the downturn."
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I think we all know all the car manufacturers are selling hybrids and have more advanced hybrids in the pipe-line (GM is betting a lot on the Volt). The article just makes the point that it takes money to develop new products and especially new technologies and that in lean times this constrains a manufacturers efforts in this regard.

So, if you want to see new technologies developed and you are in lean times helping this process along is not unheard of nor is it bad policy. Especially, if time is of the essence with regard to the need for the new technology (GHG reduction).

[99th_Monkey]

9. Given that there ALREADY ARE highly fuel-efficient autos being made by BIG 3

WHAT'S TO KEEP THE US CONGRESS FROM INSISTING AS PART ANY BAIL-OUT AGREEMENT:
1) THAT THE BIG THREE HALT PRODUCTION OF GAS GUZZLERS IMMEDIATELY & SELL THEM AT A DISCOUNT IF NECESSARY,
AND
2) REMOVE ANY AND ALL LEGAL OR OTHER OBSTACLES TO SELLING THESE FUEL-EFFICIENT CARS TO US CONSUMERS, AND
REQUIRE A "US CONSUMERS FIRST" PRIORITY ON MARKETING AND SALES OF THESE VEHICLES ... and ....

WA-LA ... WE'RE THERE ... are we not? Well maybe not ALL the way there, but certainly a fer piece down the road to sanity.
Sure there needs to be R&D to keep improving on the high mpg cars they're already making, but my point is part of any
agreement with Congress needs to include REQUIREMENTs that they market these groovy cars to US MARKETS FIRST, let Europe
have the left overs.

What am I missing here? If the Big Three want my tax dollars to bail them out for their stupidity of only marketing these
cool cars to Europeans ONLY, then they damn well better be selling these fuel-efficient cars to US consumers as a FIRST
priority, or they can just fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

[yy4me]

7. Boy, if the fuel efficient cars are being made here now but the

government will not allow them to be sold here, what is the point of trying to bail them out? So they can make more gas guzzling cars that will not sell? Something is very wrong here.

Is the bail-out just to protect jobs so more gas guzzlers can sit in dealers lots? Help me understand this, please.

If the big 3 makers could sell the fuel efficient cars, would there not be so much of a crisis? Jobs would not be lost. Just stop production of all non-efficient cars and allow the manufacture of the efficient cars that are now sold outside of the country. Good grief, who in the government thought this one up. Is there a competent decision making team anywhere in Washington?

[Citizen Number 9]

11. This crisis offers a huge opportunity

As bad as it is, this financial crisis with the automakers offers a huge opportunity to take a new direction in the production of energy efficient and alternative energy vehicles. I hope the new administration can take advantage of it to both save jobs and move forward on what we should have been doing for the last decade.

[Hannah Bell]

12. GM makes a hybrid in china.

http://www.chinacartimes.com/2007/12/17/buick-lacrosse-hybrid-next-year

[amandabeech]

13. GM sells the Saturn Aura here. Now. Just check their webpage.

There are a few more GM hybrids for sale.

If I wanted a hybrid Aura, all I'd have to do is walk the couple of blocks to the local Saturn dealer, trade in my Taurus, get a loan (ha-ha) and drive off with it.

Ford has been making a full hybrid small SUV line since 2005: Escape, Mercury Mariner and Mazda Tribute.

If Ford has the money, a full hybrid Fusion line will be in the showrooms in January. The line is supposed to start up in December.

I don't have the time right now to fiddle with the links, but if anyone's interested I could do it tomorrow.

I simply cannot believe the amount of misinformation about the Big 3 that's been posted on DU in the past couple of weeks.

Saturn

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/greenline/index.jsp

There's also a Chevy Malibu, a couple of SUVs and probably a Buick.

Really, folks.