The "bright spots" of this recession and why there is reason for optimism.

[RBInMaine]

Recessons stink bigtime for those hit hard with layoffs and forclosures. However, we have to look comprehensively at this situation and see the potential lights at the end of the tunnel. The banks and financial firms are now, for the most part, solvent and back in the black (Yes, for many thanks to the bailout - but nonetheless, solvent. This was right. We couldn't let the banking system collapse or we'd be in depression now.). However, many lenders are playing a wait and see game right now as well as the new regulations begin to hit the books and some predictability begins to return to the market. All corrections take time. So there is some good news in that the banking system is stabilizing, and things will improve once they begin RESPONSIBLY lending again. Also, many out of control prices, especially in real estate, are correcting as they should. There has been a real opportunity, for those who can now but couldn't before, to purchase homes at lower prices with lower FIXED rates and re-finance at lower fixed rates as I have done. This is vey good news. Also, most of the stimulus money hasn't gone out yet. Remember that. Much more is going out the door this summer and fall and into 2010, though it is on a faster track now. Also, the auto industry and many others are restructuring.

As much as it hurts to admit it right now, this country went on a massive lending and spending binge during the 90's and especially in the 2000's. It has come back to haunt us. The guilty parties were the deregulators in the government, banks and mortgage companies way over-lending sub primes, bad secondary market instruments based on sub-prime holdings, too much very cheap money for too long thanks to the fed, and many very bad personal financial choices among too many folks trying to out-do the Joneses. Plenty of sin to go ALL around. This is a deep, credit-based recession, and it will take the many affected economic sectors time to correct. But Obama is on the right track. In addition to the stimulus, if we can get healthcare under control and a new alternative energy economy going, we'll be in much better shape in the longer term. We must think long term and visionary.

The issue here is this is going to take more recovery time than other recessions because it is so deep; the worst since the Great Depression. My hope is that with re-regulation and price corrections we will have sustained fairer prices, greater stability and improved practices in the financial markets, much better personal financing practices, and much less consumer debt (a bubble that just had to burst - it was competely unsustainable). We should also have improved business models with better-run companies, a whole new green energy and products sector, and we should be much more competitive with lower healthcare costs.(Two dangers out there are remaining toxic assets and the threat of inflation based on public debt, so we'll need to address those.)

Folks, the simple lesson of this recession is that Americans across the board (financial institutions and their people, investors/speculators, and consumers) got too greedy. But it can also be a blessing in disguise as we learn from this error and dramatically improve our practices and hence the broader economy going forward to prevent re-occurences. Hopefully we will.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. However, Our Government Has Bailed Out The Bankers

at the expense of everyone else. The bankers have been made whole, and zero regulation has been created to slow their next round of economic sodomy. So they will continue to screw us, because they can.

There's no good ending in sight for the Middle Class.

[RBInMaine]

3. You are incorrect regarding re-regulation. This is a major reason why lenders are so cautious right

now. Some new rules are already out, and more are coming. More mortgage stability work is coming too. We have emerged from Great Depression. We'll emerge from this. Hopefully we'll emerge in much better shape. As I say, for those who can it has been a good market to get into a new home at a good fixed rate or to re-finance. Some folks who can are getting some great auto deals right now.
This has helped some middle class folks less affected, but good news nonetheless. I am middle class, and it has been great to be able to re-finance at 4.6. We went from a 30 year note to 15 years for only slightly more per month. That means we'll bild our equity MUCH faster and get out of the note much sooner. The very hard part is waiting out the corrections that will be required to get the larger economy moving again. What people can DO is lobby like hell right now both for energy reform and especially for healthcare reform. Get those costs down, and it helps the larger economy bigtime. Also, lobby for the fair trade law bill which will eliminate tax writeoffs for firms that move overseas. Organize and ACT. You can't just sit and complain.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Which New Rules Are Out? Which Have Been Seriously Proposed?

I'm not aware of anything of substance.

I've tried organizing and acting. For the past 20 years, the Middle Class, in aggregate, has not had a clue as to what's been coming. Until they get a clue, there's no hope. It's like the last depression - until people went hungry, nothing happened.

[RBInMaine]

8. Here are some items to begin better informing yourself. (Sorry, but it will take some time.)

New Fannie, Freddie rules on the way
Regulator will issue new rules governing the mortgage finance company's portfolio holdings. Also coming, new capital requirements for Federal Home Loan Banks.
By Tami Luhby, CNNMoney.com senior writer
January 23, 2009: 7:01 PM ET

Freddie Mac Tightens Home-Lending Rules - washingtonpost.com
Freddie Mac, one of the biggest investors in US mortgages, plans to toughen its standards and ... made up about one-fifth of all new mortgages last year. ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/.../AR2007022700593.html - Similar

RFI - Obama outlines new banking rules
US - Financial reform. Obama outlines new banking rules. Article published on the 2009-06-17 Latest update 2009-06-17 17:52 TU. US President Barack Obama ...
www.rfi.fr/actuen/articles/114/article_4041.asp - Cached - Similar

tg-72: Treasury Outlines Framework For Regulatory Reform
Mar 26, 2009 ... Treasury Outlines Framework For Regulatory Reform. Provides new Rules of the Road, focuses first on containing systemic risk ...
www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/tg72.htm - Cached - Similar

[RBInMaine]

9. Here are some items to begin better informing yourself. (Sorry, but it will take some time.)

New Fannie, Freddie rules on the way
Regulator will issue new rules governing the mortgage finance company's portfolio holdings. Also coming, new capital requirements for Federal Home Loan Banks.
By Tami Luhby, CNNMoney.com senior writer
January 23, 2009: 7:01 PM ET

Freddie Mac Tightens Home-Lending Rules - washingtonpost.com
Freddie Mac, one of the biggest investors in US mortgages, plans to toughen its standards and ... made up about one-fifth of all new mortgages last year. ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/.../AR2007022700593.html - Similar

RFI - Obama outlines new banking rules
US - Financial reform. Obama outlines new banking rules. Article published on the 2009-06-17 Latest update 2009-06-17 17:52 TU. US President Barack Obama ...
www.rfi.fr/actuen/articles/114/article_4041.asp - Cached - Similar

tg-72: Treasury Outlines Framework For Regulatory Reform
Mar 26, 2009 ... Treasury Outlines Framework For Regulatory Reform. Provides new Rules of the Road, focuses first on containing systemic risk ...
www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/tg72.htm - Cached - Similar

[Donnachaidh]

6. Maine is one of the poorest states in the nation

Where the only heavy industry you have is the Bath Iron works.

I'm sure many of those folks who have lost what few jobs there were are NOT as positive as you are. How many Mainers have LOST their homes this year? How many of those folks did NOT get re-financed because the banks and their *wait and see* attitude allowed these people to go over the edge.

Sorry, but basing your whole *Don't worry, Be Happy* refrain on the fact that you got to re-finance is ludicrous. I'll bet those people getting in on those *good deals* are doing it at the expense of the other Mainers who have been hit harder. The same old *f*ck you, I've got mine* attitude that was and IS the shame of this country.

Banks need to be re-regulated to the teeth. Banks that were given money to re-invest in their communities and didn't need to be FINED heavily. And JOBS need to be brought back to areas - or brought into areas like Maine, to allow everyone to benefit. Not just the folks who happened to have the cash for those *good deals*.

[RBInMaine]

7. Your reaction to my comments are emotional and inaccurate. (More):

First, my attitude is not "don't worry be happy" as I have acknowledged the economic hardship that many are facing and the time required for this economy to recover. I can write a book on economic struggle. I've lived it as a kid and as a young adult. I've had many friends and family members face it over the years. We are very early into the banking side of the recovery. It will take some more time for capital to start flowing as the sector adjusts to conditions on the ground and new regulations. I am actually glad to see the caution. This must be part of the correction. But it will start flowing again, and more responsibly.
My entire argument is in no way based upon my own experience with a mortgage re-finance. That I mention my being one of millions of middle class folks who have been able to do this is just one point. An irony of recession it opens certain positive opportunities in the near and longer terms, as I have outlined. As to Maine's economy, while we haven't been hit quite as hard because we didn't have the kind of sub prime/speculation problems here as they did elsewhere, we are certainly feeling the pinch. Between the recession and weather conditions tourism revenue is way down, state and local budgets are struggling, unemployment is up, our paper and wood products industries continue to struggle as do our financial and technology sectors in mid and southern Maine. Of course the fishing and retail industries have taken a major hit as well.

People are hurting all over to greater or lesser extents. However, a fair analysis of this recession is that it was due to greed across the board. Plenty of people simply over-bought. As bad as the regulators, lenders, and investment institutions have behaved (and they behaved BADLY), so have many "Joe Sixpacks". The binging went on everywhere. Let's learn that lesson, and we're just going to have to be patient. This will take some time. We didn't get in it overnight. We can not get out overnight. And we are all very sorry for those who did behave well but have been hit hard nonetheless. I know just what that is like.

[Donnachaidh]

12. and your argument is cold and dissmissive of the folks who are hurting

Sure Maine wasn't hit with the massive subprime problems the rest of the states did -- because it is one of the POOREST in the nation.

And a *fair analysis* as you put it is yet another RW talking point. Yeah, people *were greedy* - blame it on the little guy. It makes it so much easier to dismiss the destruction of whole families, so much easier to snap up those *bargains* (and not lose any sleep over the folks who were put out of those bargains by the banks that wrote the crappy loans). I'm sure you're very *sorry* for those folks who are in trouble. Your original OP proves that out quite nicely. :sarcasm:

[RBInMaine]

14. I'm not sure what you don't understand about plain English, but obviously you hear only what you

want to hear. No point in continuing to converse with the volunteer deaf.

[Frustratedlady]

2. I agree that we need to correct many things...including our attitudes.

We need to get out of the "ME" generation and back to the basics, which includes looking out for our fellow man.

It truly irritates me that people are so impatient. We didn't get in this mess overnight and we won't get out of it for a good while.

Deposit your money in the banks, spend a little when you can and let the system work.

[RBInMaine]

4. You are correct. I have known many people who just got in way over their heads. People don't need

the biggest fanciest car nor the biggest fanciest house. Lenders got greedy, investors got greedy, and consumers got greedy. Greed failed.

[northernlights]

13. you are an example of why

I so totally regret moving to Maine 6 years ago. Congratulations on refinancing. When I moved to Maine, I was flush. I owned my small home outright, had money to invest and a plan to work to support myself.

I've been robbed from the moment I moved here, and am now flat broke and in debt.

I was poisoned by my employer, harrassed in my home, my animals assaulted -- and told by Maine's labor dept. that the employer could do whatever they want to me and if I don't like it, get another job. It's called "Right to work." Fucking right. THEY FUCKING POISONED ME.

My neighbors trashed my property. So did the contractor I hired. But you know how it is here. Licensing contractors would cost the state money and what about the poor contractors? Besides, you're a "transplant" and even worse, a "masshole" so you can just eat the fucking loss. Assholes.

Wendy Pieh stopped by my house looking for votes. I told her my employment situation. Her response? A nasty, "well go get another job!" Right. Fucking bitch.

I was lied to blatantly by the university advisor. First by omission of key facts that they university doesn't publish anywhere. The result? A healthcare training program that I should have been able to complete part time in 3 years with minimal debt will now take me 4+ years and more debt than the salary at the back end is worth. And every time I start a new semester, a new batch of hidden information -- that's going to sink me deeper into debt to finish the fucking program -- suddenly comes to light.

They can't even do simply fucking arithmetic. I just got a letter congratulating me on my 3.71 average for the last year. You tell me how you take 3 As (4.0) and 1 B+ (3.0+) and come up with less than 3.75? By factoring in the As, which were 4 credit hours as *less* valuable than the B+ in a 3 credit hour course? By giving less than 3.0 for a B+? But that's Maine. 5th grade arithemetic-challenged.

If I could escape this hellhole full of morons, believe me I would.

Maine is basically a state of uberwealthy (Bush sr. et al), uberpoor, and a small and shrinking middle class who gets robbed by *both* ends.

Collins and Snowe are a perfect example of why Maine is and will remains so poor. They sell out the country every time. They gutted the stimulus package. I hold Obama responsible for putting "bipartisanship" ahead of a package that will work. But Collins and Snowe are the ones that gutted it. And they're the ones trying to sabotage healthcare reform too.

Last week I was talking to a store manager, asking about jobs. We got to talking about the real estate market. Next think you know some c*nt of a trophy wife starts yelling at me that I'd better not "take out a home equity loan or I'll be in bigger trouble than I am now." And then she and hubby drive off in his fucking Jaguar.

Fuck Maine. Fuck it. Fuck it. Fuck it. I came here with high hopes. I'll probably leave here in a cardboard box after I kill myself. What a fucking hellhole full of fucking morons.

[RBInMaine]

15. To extrapolate your one experience to an attack on the entire state is very unfair.

Let me tell you what this "terrible" state offers:

1) A very good educational system, considered one of the nation's best.

2) Clean air, water, beaches, lakes, mountains, forests, parks, etc. An awesome outdoor experiences place.

3) One of the nation's highest quality of life ratings, year after year.

4) One of the nation's lowest crime rates.

5) Certainly a welcoming and very tolerant attitude in most areas reflected in winning the referendum on the new civil rights bill a few years ago and passage of the marriage equality law which we hope to keep after this fall's referendum.

6 We have twice beaten down referendums designed to gut public services.

7) We have been blue every year presidentially since 1992. Dems control both state houses and the governorship.

8) There is economic opportunity here in a variety of sectors, but yes, we do exchange massive heavy industry for quality of life.

Do we have problems, just as every state does? To be sure. But overall there is a terrific quality of life here. I have met countless people from all over who have been to Maine, love it, and tell me how envious they are of me that I live here.
I was raised here and have traveled the world. I went to college in Massachusetts. I could have stayed there, or gone elsewhere. So could have my parents. They chose Maine, and I chose to stay in Maine. I am glad I did. I am very glad that I can raise my own child here. This is my home, and I take offense to your very unfair attacks.

[pokercat999]

10. "The banks and financial firms are now, for the most part,

solvent and back in the black" did you forget the :sarcasm: thingy or are you unaware that many banks including Wells, BoA, Citi and most others are carrying billions in mortgages on upside down property and they have no hope of seeing the principal let alone interest? The Alt A and Option Arms resetting in 2009, 10 and 11 amount to an extraordinary amount and the failure rate of these loans is staggering.

Your lack of accurate and complete information and polly-anna outlook are naive beyond belief.


I'm sure you forgot the :sarcasm:

[sendero]

11. The banks a are NOT..

.. solvent as you will see soon. Where ever you are getting that information it is patently false.

There is a new wave of mortgages set to default, the so-called Option ARMs. Commercial real estate is in a tailspin, banks hold most of that paper. Banks are not solvent, and the "profits" they are booking is pure fiction, with the possible exception of the gang leaders Goldman Sachs.

I'm glad that you see unicorns and fairies, but there is nothing but black beasts really there as you and everyone else in this clueless country will find out in the next couple of years.

[RBInMaine]

16. You're referring only to some of the large institutions. It is mainly the secondary firms

that hold the toxic paper. Most first tier banks, especially the smaller and regional banks, are indeed solvent. Undeniable. Capital flow is slow for the reasons stated. (I have some banker friends who are my info. source.) Yes, the bad paper (derivatives, etc.) remains a problem. They are working on it.

[fasttense]

17. Where are the JOBS?????? So far, so little,

Pumping money into the banks has done nothing to rid them of the toxic assets they held and still hold. All financial regulations are merely in the works and none, so far, have become law. The banks are using our money to lobby against all proposed regulations and are winning.

There have been absolutely NO JOB increases in the American economy. Job losses and unemployment continues to hit all time highs and even the happy face economist admit there are no new jobs coming soon to America.

Without jobs, the unwashed masses don't buy cars, houses, furniture and other junk that use to make up 70% of GDP. So, if you are a bank you see all kinds of "bright spots" and are probably very optimistic. But if you are in the middle class, you only see more misery straight ahead.

[Po_d Mainiac]

18. Ya might want to open your eyes...enjoy the reading...Ayah

http://www.meb.uscourts.gov/Pdf/web_stats_2008.pdf

http://www.meb.uscourts.gov/Pdf/web_stats_2009.pdf

Red tide forces widespread closures in Maine - Boston.com
Jul 10, 2009 ... Officials have shut down virtually the entire Maine coast to clam digging because of a widespread outbreak of red tide.
www.boston.com/.../red_tide_forces_widespread_closures_in_maine/ - Similar

New England has the highest rate of adult asthma in the U.S. In 2004, Maine was found to have the highest asthma rate in New England (Asthma Regional Council)
http://www.mainehealthforum.org/index.php?mod=%2flibrary%2f&act=showcategory&CID=874

http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eohp/fish/2KFCA.htm

[Better Believe It]

19. There is not "Plenty of sin to go ALL around" That's letting the real culprits off the hook

It is the Wall Street financial and banking interests that are clearly responsible for this economic crisis.

They control and run the capitalist economy and government, the common people don't.

We are the victims of their economic policies and get rich quick financial scams.

And they are not suffering for their "sins", we are!