Who Will Build The New Economy?

[4dsc]

Obama has raised the subject. He understands that we can't go back to the old economy — and shouldn't want to. We can't go back to borrowing $2 billion a day, largely from the Chinese, to serve as consumer to the world. We can't go back to an economy in which finance captures 45% of the nation's profits. We can't keep shipping good jobs, technology, and manufacturing capacity abroad and expect to sustain a broad middle class at home. We've got to start making it in America again. As Obama has declared, "The fight for American manufacturing is the fight for America's future."

As Louis Uchitelle in the New York Times reports, the United States now ranks behind every industrial nation except France in the percentage of overall economic activity devoted to manufacturing. We've been shedding manufacturing jobs for years, and the recession has been brutal, with nearly two million industrial jobs disappearing since it began.

But we haven't even begun a serious conversation about what it would take to revive manufacturing in a global economy. The president's trade representative, Ron Kirk, seems clueless, intent on passing free trade agreements with Panama, Columbia and South Korea that are but tribute to the old unsustainable ways. The president calls sensibly for investment in education and training, in 21st century infrastructure, in research and development — but his budgets project reducing domestic expenditures to levels lower as a percentage of GDP than the early 1960s. And conservatives in both parties say that isn't low enough.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009073022/making-it-america

[debbierlus]

1. We haven't engaged in important dialogue around ANY key issue

The media puts out Washington talking points and then centers the 'debate' around non-central issues. They do NOT want real debate.

And, it is incredibly sad and dangerous.

[OHdem10]

2. Conservatives are blindly holding on to the past. It is difficult for

the average American to understand how the Conservatives
look at our country and continue to repeat over and over--
This is the richest country in the world. America is number
one. We have the best health care system in the world.

They do not appear to see what is happening. They do not
understand that more and more very middle class Americans
have traveled around the world and have seen things for
themselves.

Conservatives can serve a good in Society by not letting
others go too far in making changes. However, to be effective
they must be trusted. Crying Wolf is damaging Conservatives
in the U.S.A.

[econoclast]

8. Why manufacture in the USA?

"This question gets to the heart of the issue. Suppose you got to have 5 minutes with a venture capital guy/gal who has their finger on "the next big thing". It's gonna' be huge! Global demand ... Tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs!

Make the case ... Why should they open the manufacturing operation of "the next big thing" in America?

You have five minutes ...."

I posed this question over a week ago. Over 200 folks viewed the thread since then and NOT ONE serious reply. If we can't answer this question we are well and truely screwed.

[tomreedtoon]

9. Start with "Did I fire five shots or did I fire six?"

The fact is that "venture capitalists" are all greedy bastards. Like all the rich and powerful, they are basically sociopaths. They will never help anybody but themselves. They would run the gas chambers at Auschwitz for a joke if they weren't afraid to get their hands dirty.

The only way you could make one of these Freddy Krueger types give American jobs is if you forced them. Having the esteemed Inspector Harry Callahan pointing his .357 Magnum at their damned heads would be one way. Seizing the assets of the venture capitalists and nationalizing his interests (you don't really believe there would be a "her" among these jerks, do you?) would be another.

[vincna]

13. Econoclast asked a good question...

... and you responded with one of the more asinine posts I've seen in my short time on DU. Venture capitalists are not social workers and yes, they are looking out for themselves. There is nothing wrong with that - all of our elected representatives do that, Obama does it and any ordinary citizen with brains does it. In Econoclast's scenario, the money needed to invest in the "next big thing" belongs to the venture capitalist. Why wouldn't he seek to maximize his return on investment? Do you invest? How do you decide where to put your money?

I'm not going to bother with your assetion that the venture capitalist's assets be seized. He might not even reside in the US and even if he did, we have constitutional protections against that.

The real question is how do you convince a venture capitalist that investing in the US is in HIS interest. Your idea about using a .357 Magnum is laughable. (By the way, Callahan carried a .44 magnum.)

How about a real response to the question?

[AdHocSolver]

12. If we don't manufacture at least 80 percent of the goods we buy, the economy will never recover.

The main cause of the economic meltdown in the U.S. economy is due to the choke hold the corporate cartels have on trade and finance in this country. They control the economy due to trade agreements such as NAFTA, the WTO, the IMF, the World Bank, corporate controlled institutions such as the Federal Reserve, and the deregulation of finance such as repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. The tax laws have been rewritten to enable the corporations to avoid taxes through offshoring of jobs.

If there is profit in the new technology, the existing cartels will steal it and ship the jobs overseas. If it is competitive with existing corporate technology, but not as profitable, the cartels will steal it and suppress it.

The system is set up to prevent any venture capitalist from benefitting by supporting any new technology that competes with the cartels.

You are asking the wrong question. The question to ask is how can we get the government to renegotiate trade agreements, reregulate the financial markets, and rewrite the tax laws to enable new technology to be developed in the U.S. in order to bring jobs back to America.

That will take awhile as we (hopefully) replace some of our bought and paid for Congress persons with some progressives who will look out for the American people's interests as opposed to the corporate interests.

Until then, Americans CAN do some good in this regard. If a large number of Americans bought American made goods instead of imported goods, if they refused to buy imported junk, and told the retailers if they wanted their business, they should offer American goods for purchase, and refused to buy from any store who doesn't offer American made products for sale, then the retailers would start supplying U.S. made goods.

A few years ago, it was revealed that a certain brand of imported shoes that Americans paid as much as $100 a pair for were made in sweat shops overseas for #3.00 a pair. Designer label clothes made overseas for practically pennies were outselling better quality store brand clothes made in the U.S. for the same or a lower price.

Just as many investors were squandering their savings on Ponzi schemes, many American consumers contributed to the loss of jobs by preferring to buy imported, shoddy, overpriced junk to save a few pennies instead of being more selective in their purchases to support the American economy.

[vincna]

15. I look for American made all the time and even pay extra for it.

Unfortunately, it's rare when I do find things made here. I can't remember the last time I found an article of clothing made in the USA.

We have to make it here before anyone can buy it. It's not happening and that is the crux of the matter.

[AdHocSolver]

17. If Americans refuse to buy imported junk and demand retailers offer American-made goods...

...then some retailers will look to stock and support American-made products.

This happened in retail food sales with organic foods. Many retailers were asked to offer organic certified foods and many mainstream markets now offer a selection of such foods.

What is needed for a significant increase in American-made goods for sale is for the government to rewrite the trade agreements, such as NAFTA, and change the tax laws, to level the playing field so that companies who want to manufacture goods in the U.S. are able to compete with the multinational corporations who profit from offshoring jobs to low-wage countries.

Astute shoppers who have been paying attention know that the idea that foreign made goods are cheaper to buy is nothing more than a myth promoted by the corporations. For example, when American-made goods were still available in stores, it was the heavily advertised, name-brand and designer label clothes that were made off-shore and sold at premium prices. Store label clothes often were American-made, of better quality, and were priced lower than the imported stuff.

The savings in labor cost is NOT passed along to the buyer, but is kept as higher profits for the corporations who import the stuff and sell it. Moreover, the huge trade deficits and debt owed to countries such as china has resulted in the devaluation of the dollar and a hidden creeping inflation.

This inflation is noticeable in shopping for food. A few years ago, one could buy a 7 ounce can of tuna for 59 cents. Today that size can holds only 5.5 ounces of fish and costs about a dollar. One used to be able to buy a half gallon of ice cream for around $3.00. A carton of ice cream today holds only a quart and a half, and a store brand costs $3.00 on sale.

Americans have become merely passive consumers, who essentially make impulse purchases based on the most recent advertising that they were exposed to, or the blandishments of clever, fast-talking salespeople. We possibly wouldn't be in this predicament if we had more discerning consumers.

[JFreitas]

19. Problem with demand...

Unfortunately, I think that in the long run, as this depression unfolds, we will come to realize that we still have overproduction. Americans may be complaining that they exported too many manufacturing jobs outside the US, but the truth is that those that still remain inside the US are still probably TOO MANY as the world plays down the bubble of hyper-inflated, debt-based overconsumption. Realistically, the US is probably going to shed more jobs in manufacturing as the offer adapts toa demand that's probably going to keep falling. That's the really serious problem.

[JFreitas]

20. Problem with demand...

Unfortunately, I think that in the long run, as this depression unfolds, we will come to realize that we still have overproduction. Americans may be complaining that they exported too many manufacturing jobs outside the US, but the truth is that those that still remain inside the US are still probably TOO MANY as the world plays down the bubble of hyper-inflated, debt-based overconsumption. Realistically, the US is probably going to shed more jobs in manufacturing as the offer adapts toa demand that's probably going to keep falling. That's the really serious problem.

[vincna]

14. I doubt you will get a serious reply.

The reality is that in your scenario, we would have to compete against other countries for the venture capitalist's dough and convince him that we can give him the best deal. From what I have seen, that is not a very popular concept on DU.

Sadly and IMO, America has priced itself out of the world market when it comes to manufacturing. Based on policies I see under consideration (cap and trade comes to mind), the situation is likely to get worse, not better.

[Truth Talks]

3. Lemme see...

Deregulation, privatization, job outsourcing, corporate welfare...

If Obama doesn't want to tackle any of these problems, then I guess the new economy will be built by Bill Gates and his partners in crime.

[cdsilv]

4. Massive gov't investment in infrastructure? Our current infrastructure is crumbling.....

....and stepping back from 'free trade'?

[econoclast]

5. Why manufacture in America?

This question gets to the heart of the issue. Suppose you got to have 5 minutes with a venture capital guy/gal who has their finger on "the next big thing". It's gonna' be huge! Global demand ... Tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs!

Make the case ... Why should they open the manufacturing operation of "the next big thing" in America?

You have five minutes ....

[tomreedtoon]

10. You have five minutes. I have six rounds and extra clips.

Corporations, like people, will only do the right thing when they are forced to. At the risk of their lives or their fortunes will be the only way for them to do the right thing.

It's long past the time when confiscatory taxes were levied on the people who sent our jobs to China and India.

[Shireling]

22. Unionized jobs

Improved standard of living. More money to spend. More people to take out loans. Banking industry stabilizes. The economy heals. I'm not an economist. Just using common sense.

[Shireling]

23. Oh, that's right

Corporate America is lost in greed. Unionized employees would be too expensive. Greed and Power. HMMMMM.....

[fasttense]

24. I'll take your bait.

Because to sell your product you need a MARKET. When the largest consumer market in the history of the world is CLOSED, where exactly do you think you are going to sell your next big thing?

China's India's, and Japan's markets combined only equaled a quarter of the size of the American market at its peak. Ford knew this, so he paid his assembly line workers enough to buy his cars, despite the angry cries from other industrialists claiming he was inflating workers pay.

You have to have a market. Are you willing to wait 20 to 60 years for China to catch up to the US consumer market? It would be simpler to give the people who are going to buy your next big thing the jobs. You have to put people to work someplace. Why not build your market while you build your factories?

[timeforpeace]

6. The government and politicians.

[leftofthedial]

7. The Chinese.

[Xenotime]

11. They only way to rebuild is equal distribution of wealth.

[Warpy]

16. The only way to rebuild is to free up the seed money to do so

by taxing the hoarded wealth at the top.

[ixion]

18. can't go back to? we haven't left...

We're STILL borrowing 2 billion plus per day.

Finance and Weapons are the ONLY thing making a profit right now (thanks to government subsidies).

We're still shipping jobs overseas (that number is up, in fact).


And no one in the government is even thinking about trying to reign in corporations. The mere mention of it raises shrieks and gasps of "protectionism"

No, we're not really doing anything that can make the problem better. In fact, we've made it worse by floating the banks to the top at the expense of the rest of us.

[econoclast]

21. Fill your pockets with jam, 'cause we are TOAST

Back on 23 July I posed the following challange:



"This question gets to the heart of the issue. Suppose you got to have 5 minutes with a venture capital guy/gal who has their finger on "the next big thing". It's gonna' be huge! Global demand ... Tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs!

Make the case ... Why should they open the manufacturing operation of "the next big thing" in America?

You have five minutes ...."

Over 700 folks viewed the thread since then and NOT ONE serious reply. If we can't answer this question we are well and truely screwed.

You know why Fiat/Chrysler is going to build the Fiat 500 in Mexico and not in the US? Because apparently somebody in Mexico is able to give a reasonable answer to the question. All we can say is - "we should FORCE you to build things here"

I guess somebody forgot to tell Fiat.

If it comes down to force, we have already lost.