Okay, stay with me here, I have an idea forming in my head...

[Javaman]

Suppose, as the world tries to cough up new and interesting ways to power all our useless crap, how about creating useless crap that requires dramatically less power.

No I'm not talking energy star stuff, I mean like mars rover power. A hand full of watts that can power a, oh I don't know, dishwasher.

I'm trying to think of a way we can meet our energy needs half way on the production side.

People are trying like hell to come up with a solar panel, lithium battery to power all of our crap at it's current rate of consumption, that will never ever happen. But if we start thinking smaller and more efficient, then perhaps we could cook our cake and eat it too! (sorry for the really bad metaphor.)

[NNadir]

1. So wait...you want me to wash my dishes with a planetary exploration robot?

[TygrBright]

3. I can deal with the dishes myself, but could we get ironing from a planetary exploration bot? n/t

[NNadir]

8. I've seen pictures of the Opportunity. It has a flat surface.

You could certainly try it.

[Az]

2. actually that is where most of the research is being done

There hasn't been a lot of advancement in battery technology. So tech that wants to use batteries has to be much more efficient.

[Warpy]

4. Right, and an energy star appliance today

uses a whole lot less than one did in the late 70s when people first started to pay attention to this stuff.

I'm always looking for places to shave power. A dead CRT TV got replaced with the cheapest LCD I could find. Most of my bulbs are CFLs. I cling to a swamp cooler (don't ask) instead of installing real AC.

I'll be delighted when the new stuff comes out.

[Sal Minella]

7. Swamp cooler! Yes!!!

In the high California desert, where the temp could be 114 and the humidity was about 3%, that thing was great!!! Couldn't believe the amount of cool air pouring out of that rusty old tin box.

But in areas of higher humidity, not quite so wonderful.

[GeorgeGist]

5. More crap ...

not much form to that idea in your head.

[Javaman]

9. Gee you are a delight

why don't you go screw yourself. What crawled up your ass and turned you into a fucking jerk?

[kestrel91316]

16. GOOD one! Javaman 2 points, "Everybody" zero. Smackdown!

[tinrobot]

6. Great idea... let's call it conservation

Seriously, a lot of research goes into reducing power consumption. The current surge in CFL lighting is a good example of technology driven conservation.

Still, most people don't even pay attention, except when they see how it affects their power bill.

[kestrel91316]

17. Everybody needs to remember, though that Unka Dick himself said

that conservation, though personally virtuous, was not going to help with our fossil fuel supply issues.

So best keep wasting.......

[eppur_se_muova]

10. Like an ultrasonic dishwasher?

http://www.appliancemagazine.com/new_products.php?article=4445&zone=204&first=1

Or Bucky Fuller's "fog gun"?

http://www.buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosHouseShowerScientific.htm

[Dogmudgeon]

11. Most of that crap is trivial

We have electric heating and cooling. That makes for a mighty impressive "carbon footprint".

I don't worry too much about, say, the computer, which has EnergyStar systems. Most of the remaining incandescents are on dimmers. I watch about an hour of TV a day, mainly Olbermann and The Weather Channel, and the next one will be an LCD model.

It's heat, cooling, cooking, and putting gas in the car that add up, and less-than-wealthy apartment dwellers dan't have the luxury of installing new appliances and shelling out $5000 for a solar electric add-on system.

But ... overall changes in construction cousd dramatically reduce the need for heating and cooling, make cooking more efficient, and even allow for add-in electrical systems from windmills, solar panels, or micronukes. All at a reasonable price.

--p!

[Summer93]

12. Less with more

How about a notebook pc with attached solar charger.

[The2ndWheel]

13. It depends on what the conserved energy is then used for

It's not just going to sit there, we're far too complex of a society. We'll find something to use the energy for. As we do, our society will become more complex, thus using more energy. The more energy we use, the more impact we have on the environment/habitat/climate.

We will not use less energy, unless the centuries old process of globally integrated centralization comes to a stop.

We have to keep telling ourselves that we will not be using less energy. We will not be using less energy. We will not...be using...less...energy. At no time have we done so, except when there was no project of civilization. We will not use less energy. We will use more energy, we will have to exert more control over every inch of the planet while we use more energy, and our collective footprint(and the system comes first, not just some individual jackass who doesn't have a car, like me) will only grow as we use more energy.

We don't get to have a global society and use less energy. Unless we plan on changing that dynamic, we will not use less energy. If people have a need to know what happens half way around the world, we cannot use less energy. If we need a global system that opperates under the same type of economic, political, and social mold, we cannot use less energy. As an example, if everyone on the planet had to have a more efficient dishwasher, the process of oversight alone on a global scale would use more energy.

[Odin2005]

14. Using more energy and resources won't necessarily harm the enviroment.

If we got our resources from mining asteroids and got all our energy from fusion and renewables we would have more energy and resources that we have in our wildest dreams today, but it would have almost no impact on Earth's environment because all the energy is clean and all the resources come from off the planet. Ideally Humanity would leave Earth entirely and turn it into one huge nature reserve.

[The2ndWheel]

15. I like that we see the same picture, but look at it from two different sides

I actually do enjoy the small exchanges we have, after the mutual bashing of the other :)

We would have to get to the asteroid first. Then mine enough of whatever we find to get to the point where it pays for itself. Unless we're staying on the asteroid.

I just can't see how anything we would do, on anything larger than human scale, wouldn't impact the environment(and all that lives in it) on an ever larger scale. Birds impact the environment by using twigs to make nests, but they're not trying to leave the planet in an ideal universe.

And where are we going? If we leave the planet entirely, why would we leave anything behind? Would we come back at some point? Wouldn't that be like going back to the Stone Age? Leave it as a reserve for what? Resources?

Again, I do enjoy the diversity in thought. I like that you still have to live within the physical limits of nature(for now), and that I have to use a computer and various other modern luxuries so that I'm not a complete hermit(for now). It's an interesting mix.

[Odin2005]

18. We need to emphasize carbon-free energy and work on new recycling technology...

...while at the same time working on getting less and less dependent on the Earth for resources.

We need to be building new nuclear and renewable power stations ASAP and phase out coal and natural gas.

We need to build an interstate electrified rail system and replace fossil fuel-powered cars with electric cars (with biofuel-based engine to use just in case the car's battery runs out), which we will have to do anyway since oil production has peaked or is about to peak.

We need to develop ways of using nanotechnology for recycling. theoretically nanotechnology will eliminate the need for disposing of garbage and make centralized mass production obsolete. Got some garbage? Toss it into your home nanotech manufacturing unit and the garbage gets disintegrated and re-synthesized into something you want or need (such as some plastic bags getting turned into a toy, or even a TV or computer if you feed the unit enough stuff).



As we start exploiting the resources of space our use of terrestrial resources will slowly decline, as that occurs we will become less and less dependent on Earth until we can eventually leave it entirely except for a few million people there for science, archeology, the tourism industry, and maintaining the infrastructure for those 3 things.

[tinrobot]

19. Buy local.

It takes a lot of carbon to ship a vegetable from South America, a wedge of cheese from France, or a bottle of water from Fiji.

Try buying locally grown food, drink filtered tap water instead of bottled, and so on...