Giant wind turbine goes up off Scottish coast

[jpak]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKL0690679820070706

LONDON (Reuters) - The second of two giant wind turbines was erected on Friday at a wind farm known as Beatrice, 25 km off Scotland's east coast, Scottish & Southern Energy said.

Engineers had been waiting for suitable weather to erect the second 85-metre high turbine since the first 5 megawatt unit went up last summer.

"We were putting up about 800 tonnes of turbine, so we had to wait for the best weather window," said an SSE spokesman.

"That happened at 1100 this morning."

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[rurallib]

1. Any idea what these two translate to in terms of lighting cities

or similar comparisons? How much oil or coal they replace per day/month/year? Curious.

[jpak]

2. This is going to be a 1 GW project - enough to power Aberdeen

eom

[Dead_Parrot]

4. So long as the people in Aberdeen...

...Don't mind sitting in the dark for three quarters of the time.

Still wrestling with that "energy" versus "power" thing, aren't you?

[jpak]

5. Sorry - FYI: onshore wind turbines produce power 60-80% of the time

just not at their peak capacity.

Offshore marine winds are far more constant (and powerful) than onshore winds and therefore a more reliable source of electricity...

Cape Wind Records Strong Winds During Peak Electricity Hours

http://www.renewableaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=49218

Cape Wind's Scientific Data Tower has recorded strong winds on Horseshoe Shoal in Nantucket Sound during each of the past ten record electric demand days in New England. These results are available in a new report published by Cape Wind entitled "Comparison of Cape Wind Scientific Data Tower Wind Speed Data with ISO New England List of Top Ten Electric Demand Days".

The report finds that Cape Wind would have produced an average of 321 megawatts (MW) when electric demand was at its peak during each of the past ten record-setting electric demand days as recorded by the Independent System Operator of New England (ISO-NE), the region's electric grid manager.

Nine of these record demand days have occurred on very hot afternoons of the summers of 2006 and 2005 and one occurred last week on June 27, 2007. Cape Wind's production during these times of record electric demand represents 76% of Cape Wind's maximum potential of 420 megawatts and is 76% greater than Cape Wind's average expected output of 182 megawatts.

Cape Wind's Vice President of Engineering Len Fagan explained why Cape Wind's production would be higher during these hot summer afternoons that set electricity demand records, "These tend to be the hottest summer days when the air over the land heats up faster than the air over the ocean, this creates a difference in air density and denser air over the ocean expands toward the land, this is called the sea breeze effect and you get it most during the afternoon when electric demand is highest."

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The good folks of Aberdeen will NOT be sitting around in the dark three quarters of the time...

[Dead_Parrot]

7. Ten days in two years?

That's odd, according to my calendar there have been over 700 days since summer 2005.

Still, 76% of peak capacity for 1.4% of days is...

...err...

...umm...

...I think "meaningless" is the word I'm looking for. Or possibly "laughable".

I suspect you've got too ice-cubes in your hat: They've frozen your cerebellum.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. Give the devil his due

The wind farm works at a pretty good overall utilization -- about 30% most days. Most wind farms are lucky to break 20%. The point about the summer operation is that conditions in the summer favor higher utilization.

As a source of ancillary power, wind works well. It could allow many communities some slack from a taut power-company leash. The cost is the main factor to be considered; I suspect that it was a little pricey, but over the course of many years, that won't be much of a concern.

The part about wind power that I'm critical of is that we could build ten or twenty million aerogenerators before dinnertime on some Tuesday in 2017. Just building the 5000 or so reactors we need will be a major task in itself. Keeping the porch lights on is an easy task; keeping the wheels of modern society turning is going to be the herculean labor.

--p!

[Dead_Parrot]

13. It's great if you have an on-demand source to fill the gaps

NZ, for instance, or Norway, could get all their grid power from a combination of wind and hydro. They don't, of course, but they could. Given the terrain, Scotland might do the same if they were prepared to go on a dam-building frenzy.

It's when you're down to burning gas to fill the gaps (like they do in Maine) that I get an issue.

[Patriot Abroad]

9. wind power isn't perfect but it has a role . . .

Power Engineers like constant or dependable sources of power, as you design to meet your peak loads (i.e. dinnertime on a hot summer day).

The old way of thinking (as I recall) was:

Coal plants are your baseline, on all the time sources. You turn them on and leave them on.
Oil plants can be started in hours, so you time them for your peaks each day
Gas plants can be started quite quickly, so you can switch them on and off as needed to meet demand.
Hydro and Nuclear have their own parameters and fit into the planning matrix.

All of the above have a very consistent, dependable output, and the Power Company just had to make sure that they were up and running/available all the time to meet the demands (which vary widely over a 24 hour period).

Wind power fits a niche near the gas generation plants, it's relatively low power generation (although this one sounds pretty significant on a peak day!), so it means on windy days the power company can reduce reliance on the gas generation plants and still have excess energy. Wind by itself is not the complete answer, and back in my EE student days we used to throw around ideas like pumping water back up to the tops of dams with wind power so that you would have a constant source of power coming from the wind.

[phildo]

15. Pretty much the present thinking, as well.

The mix and method is still pretty much as you described.

The new add-in to the mix is Solar Boilers.

Spain is into these and seem to be leading the world.

Sample story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6616651.stm

[jpak]

11. Ummm....reading comprehension???

Those were the ten biggest peak demand periods during those "700 days".

The proposed wind farm would have operated close to peak capacity and made a significant contribution to grid support during those peak periods.

frozen cerebellum indeed...

[Dead_Parrot]

12. So, using electricity makes the wind blow?

:shrug:

[Patriot Abroad]

14. What exactly is your solution?

Ireland, as with Scotland, is putting up large numbers of offshore turbines (and onshore turbines). Ireland, for example, has almost no fossil fuels and would not be a brilliant location for solar power.

We do have a lot of wind (and waves, but that's a different discussion).

We also have power bills that would make the average American weep. (and that's yet another discussion).

You're not going to get rid of the gas turbines at this point, but at least the wind generation keeps some of those turbines turned off more of the time.

[Dead_Parrot]

16. Ireland's generation is rather interesting

since you do a bit of everything (except nuclear): coal, oil, gas, peat, wind & hydro. You nearly had a nuclear plant at Carnsore Point, but there's public opinion for you.

You've got the terrain for more hydro, if you're prepared to build it: coupled with wind & wave, you could leave the gas fields alone. Or resurrect Carnsore as base generation and go solar for peak. Anything that gets you off oil and peat is a good start...

[kestrel91316]

10. Quick! Warn the people of Denmark that wind power is a fraud!!!

http://www.scandinavica.com/culture/nature/wind.htm

[rurallib]

6. Thanks - is Aberdeen @the size of Milwaukee? Maybe DesMoines?

[Double T]

3. Here are some interesting facts regarding Wind Turbines.........

Each Wind Turbine at the wind farm known as Beatrice is rated at 5 MW for a total of 10 MW installed to date.

http://www.awea.org/newsroom/pdf/Fast_Facts_2007.pdf