Ice used to keep New York office buildings cool - AP

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

Ice used to keep New York office buildings cool

The Associated Press
Published: July 13, 2007

NEW YORK: As the summer swelters on, skyscrapers and
apartments around New York will be cranking up the air
conditioning and pushing the city's power grid to the limit.

But some office towers and buildings have found a way to
stay cool while keeping the air conditioning to a minimum
— by using an energy-saving system that relies on blocks
of ice to pump chilly air through buildings.

-snip-

Because electricity is needed to make the ice, water is
frozen in large silver tanks at night when power demands
are low. The cool air emanating from the ice blocks is
then piped throughout the building, more or less like
traditional air conditioning. At night the water is frozen
again and the cycle repeats.

-snip-

Ice storage at Credit Suisse lowers the facility's peak
energy use by 900 kilowatts, and reduces overall electric
usage by 2.15 million kilowatt-hours annually — enough
to power about 200 homes.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/13/america/NA-GEN-US-Ice-Cooling-Energy-Saver.php

[R_M]

1. kick

[Captain Hilts]

2. Anybody know status of that plan to use water from pipes in Lake Ontario to cool ....

office buildings in downtown Toronto?

[mahina]

3. Makai Ocean Engineering did that job, a Hawaii company

"Toronto Deep Lake Water Cooling Pipes - Makai performed significant design aspects for the three deep water intakes for ENWAVE's Deep Lake Water Cooling Project in Lake Ontario. The deep (115 meter) intakes will provide cold water for air-conditioning buildings in downtown Toronto and the municipal drinking water system. The new system will provide water of higher purity than is provided by the current intakes that obtain water from shallower depths. Each HDPE pipeline is five km long and 1.6m (63") in diameter . The pipelines were installed during the summer of 2003. " a little way down the page, http://www.makai.com/p-pipelines.htm

Now to get our own city on the plan...don't hold your breath, they make money from the oil they burn, a % on every gallon. It's so damn hard to get them to change but slowly support is building.

[robinlynne]

4. sounds like a huge swamp cooler. great idea!

[zabet]

5. Wow...haven't thought about a swamp cooler for years!

We used them! :rofl:

[phusion]

21. Swamp coolers are very common here in New Mexico

where the outside humidity is often 20% or less during summer. :)

They work pretty well and draw very little power.

[Gregorian]

6. And what about the humidity?

That sounds like hell.

[Eugene]

8. The air passes through coils in the tank. The system appears to be sealed.

Here's a link to a diagram: http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070713/480/6f6137a964ca43d6ad76e74ebe2b7968

[Gregorian]

15. Duh. I should have known.

It's not 1960. Haha.

But is still pretty archaic. Transporting ice and everything. Got to love those humans.

[FogerRox]

7. Funny how old tech comes back, 1920's ice was used to cool, fruits and veggies

in rail cars, while shipped to market, into the 1960's,. Passenger cars on railroads used ice before AC. Ice waas used before refrigerators.

[starroute]

10. Before A/C, people would run a fan across a block of ice to keep cool

This was not anything I ever saw myself -- I suppose my mother must have told me about it. However, when I was a little girl in the 50's, there was still an iceman in the neighborhood, because there were still people who owned iceboxes and not refrigerators. Occasionally, in the hottest weather, our fridge would conk out and my mother would take me with her when she went over there to buy a block of ice to keep our food from spoiling.

There was a lot of now-lost knowledge back then about how to keep things cool through low-tech means -- building houses with decent cross-ventilation being one of them. I really wonder what all the houses I see in new developments that have no windows on the sides, but only in the front and back, will be like in the summer when air conditioning becomes unaffordable.

[robinlynne]

16. I know that is true, but how did they make the ice without a frig?

[bananas]

17. It was delivered to the door by truck

http://www.vlanton.com/761_aubert/truckice.htm
http://www.linwoodnj.org/photos/icetruck1.html
http://www.linwoodnj.org/photos/icetruck2.html

[alphafemale]

22. In some areas I think it was actually cut from lakes in the winter.

Then stored in well insulated warehouses.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. It doesn't sound like it would be efficient enough

It sounds great, but I'd heard that ice-block cooling was too inefficient for general use.

If anyone finds more about this method, please post!

--p!

[FogerRox]

11. IMHP the goal is to move the electric use to off peak, during the night.

My guess is the cost difference more than makes up for the inefficiency.

[phildo]

13. Exactly. It si a money thing.

Driven by time of day and grid demand and use. Most generating plants that can "idle down" over night.

Big offices have that same system here around Dallas, as well. Worked on a JC Penney Headquarters (that came down from NYC). Their numbers were 5 cents per kWh at night time rates, and present daytime rates are 11 to 14 cents.

[Peregrine Took]

12. I think places are too cold during the summer. I shouldn't need to put on a

jacket in movie theaters or stores. Its ridiculous - its summer, its hot - shut up!!!

[skids]

18. Here's a unit being made for (large) homes.

http://www.ice-energy.com/pages/markets/residential/tabid/92/Default.aspx

This does not just move electricty use off peak -- since the night-time air is cooler, you can freeze the ice with less energy as well... assuming you are using air as your heat sink and not a geoexchange system, that is, but most people use air.

[Dogmudgeon]

23. This is a VERY impressive system

Thanks for the link.

I am quite pleasantly surprised, and glad to have been wrong about ice cooling. The specs are quite persuasive, and the economics are a lot better than I thought they would be.

I imagine that if geoexchange techniques were incorporated, the energy demand could be cut even more dramatically. I wonder if using epsom salt would improve the ability of the water to "hold" coldness.

If this kind of technology became the dominant air conditioning method, it would be a welcome "wedge" of conservation.

--p!

[RestoreGore]

14. Doesn't it waste a lot of water?

I read that Credit Suisse has 64 tanks in their basement that hold 800 gallons of water each. Not too good if you live in an area with a water shortage or drought. And where are they getting the water from?

[jberryhill]

19. This may come as a surprise, but

If you freeze water and then melt it, you end up with water.

The process does not consume any water (except for some evaporation).

Also, an entire mountain range drains toward New York City.

[RestoreGore]

25. No need to be snide

Well then since it isn't emptied what do they do to control bacteria?

[jberryhill]

26. Lots of ways...

UV, filtration, freezing the water.... or, one can get a bacterial treatment unit specifically designed for a thermal storage system:

http://www.pureline.com/pages/case_studies/university.html

[skids]

20. You have to use water to waste it.

They are just storing it, it does not go down a drain or evaporate. It's a one-time withdrawal from the water supply.

[RestoreGore]

24. Well, that's sanitary