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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:50 AM
Original message
Taiwan ocean current power generation - up to 1.68 trillion kilowatt-hours per year
http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=79557&CtNode=47

TAIWAN TO EMBARK ON OCEAN CURRENT POWER GENERATION

07/02/2007 (CNA)

Taipei, July 2 (CNA) The government is now discussing the possibility of large-scale ocean current power generation, using the strong Kuroshio current off the east coast of Taiwan to generate up to 1.68 trillion kilowatt-hours per year, officials at cabinet-level Council for Economic Planning and Development (CEPD) said Monday.

<snip>

After the project is green-lighted, the possible first step should be setting up a five-megawatt marine turbine off Taiwan's east coast on a trial basis, with the goal of testing both related technologies and power-generating efficiency, CEPD officials, adding that hopefully, the project can enter the next stage in three years.

<snip>

However, they explained that based on the surveys done by National Taiwan University (NTU) , the sea area of some 6,000 square kilometers between the eastern county of Taitung and the outlying Green Island in the Pacific Ocean appears to meet all the requirements, and that the maximum potential capacity there exceeds 1.68 trillion kilowatt- hours per year -- while Taiwan's current annual demand of electricity is only about 98 billion kilowatt-hours.

<snip>

Chen, the project leader, noted that once the turbines enter commercial operation, Taiwan's existing coal power plants could be retired, while the nuclear power generators could be used as a backup system -- thereby resulting in a great reduction in Taiwan's total carbon dioxide emissions. (By Zep Hu)

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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not to be a stick in the mud, but...
1. Given that ocean current power generation involves sticking large, spinning turbines within the currents.

2. Given that nearly all migratory sea life (which is nearly all sea life) uses these ocean currents to travel.

3. Won't this result in the massacre of just about all marine life within the 6,000-square-mile area of the proposed power generator?

I can't say I know a whole lot about the details here, but just from a common sense perspective, it seems extremely environmentally hazardous.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. No - the turbines spin slowly. nt
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It would still wreak havoc on the marine ecosystem
A smaller number of tidal-hydro systems would probably have low impact, but any energy project that requires a substantial amount of space is going to affect, or destroy, ecosystems.

The turbines also have to turn fast enough to prevent mineralization, barnacles, coral, sea vegetation, and other hazards. It is not an impossible task, but it has to be factored into the project the same way energy storage and buffering has to be factored into wind farms -- but often isn't.

Tidal energy has quite a bit of potential, but we have only just started to work with it. If we had been on the case one hundred years ago, when the technology first became available, we would be in fine shape -- same as for wind. What that potential was immediately useful!

--p!
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Based on what data???
I know - none.

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Use the Google
One search I did. Almost 600 results. Several of the results appear to be relevant. Good hunting!

Bookmark this link for future use.

--p!
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. And the Google is silent on the subject of mass destruction of the marine environment
by tidal turbines or offshore wind farms.

One tidbit from your "google"...

Report: Little harm from offshore wind farms in Denmark

http://www.capecodtoday.com/news550.htm

A major report just released in Denmark finds negligible impacts to birds, fish and mammals from the two largest offshore wind farms in the world at Horns Rev and Nysted.

"Danish experience for the past 15 years shows that offshore wind farms, if placed right, can be engineered and operated without significant damage to the marine environment and vulnerable species," state the executive summary of the report, titled "Danish Offshore Wind -- Key Environmental Issues," released over the weekend at a conference in Copenhagen on the results of an eight-year long monitoring program.

The report's findings could provide an important boost to the Cape Wind project proposed for Nantucket Sound, now in its sixth year of a rigorous regulatory review.

Among those attending was Craig Olmsted, vice president of development for Cape Wind, the Boston- and Yarmouth-based company seeking to build a 130-turbine wind farm, America's first, in Nantucket Sound.

<more>

The Google is not your friend...
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. typically 10-20 rpm
n/t
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not if the turbine is chosen well.

...anything up in the 5MW range is not likely to spin fast enough underwater to do much damage, even a HAWT.

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. There have been studies at the current sites using such power
no major problems observed so far.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. This one doesn't even need a turbine, and is already cost effective
per pilot test at the Texas A&M coastal facility near Freeport Texas.
Very simple technology. Nothing to go wrong.
http://www.inri.us/pages/2/index.htm?gen_time=1083949207994

Projections for power at 3 cents per kwh off California coast, where the waves are bigger than Texas.
It also produces potable water, if needed, which can improve the economics in areas with waves not as big as Calif.
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razzleberry Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. has this ever been tried ?
c'mon

the thing will get covered with
barnacles and other stuff
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. They are made to be brought up and maintained periodically, current projects looking good
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yes
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Gee, one wonders why France went nuclear then...
Edited on Sat Jul-21-07 08:53 PM by NNadir
Current-harvesting turbines represent a sharp break from the first wave of tidal power, so-called "barrages" in which impoundments installed across estuaries or bays created hydroelectric reservoirs refilled twice daily by rising tides. The La Rance barrage in Normandy has produced up to 240 megawatts of power--as much as many natural-gas-fired power plants--since 1966. Halifax utility Nova Scotia Power has been generating up to 20 megawatts of power since 1984 at a tidal barrage in the Bay of Fundy, whose funnel-shaped inlet produces the world's largest tides--16 meters at its head.


One wonders why an "industry" that is more than 30 years old is still simply mostly talk.

Of course, one wonders the same thing about the solar industry, which started in 1954.

Don't worry your visionary little head about it. Clearly you think that climate change is something that can wait until...well whenever you substitute energy for talk.

Of course, for you to learn to discuss energy, you would need to learn the use of scientific units, like the difference between units of energy and power.

If one wants to know why the tidal industry has not expanded significantly after many decades of big talk, one can read on:

The Verdant company actually reports on its energy output:

It's been over four years in development, permitting, and testing, but the nation's first hydro-power plant is up and running. Two giant turbines installed last month at the bottom of the New York's East River are finally putting out some real juice. Virginia-based Verdant Power, the startup that has collaborated with Con Edison...

But the power generating turbine, Taylor told me today in a phone interview, "is producing power beautifully. That little sucker is just humming away, and exceeding our expectations." Since it was installed into the riverbed last month, Taylor says, the single turbine has generated about 5,000 kilowatt hours of energy—roughly speaking, enough to power the average U.S. household for six months. Once state officials are convinced that the turbines pose no threat to fish (which are being monitored 24/7 with $1.5 million in Verdant's sonar equipment), Taylor will install four more turbines, possibly by March...



$1.5 million dollars in monitoring equipment to produce 6 months of power for one household.

Do you try to look this silly or do you simply do this out of pure cluelessness?

In 2005 New York consumed 146,887,419 megawatt-hours of electricity. Note that the big deal tidal plant produced 5 megawatt hours (5000 kilowatt hours).

So all we have to do is to increase these systems by a factor of about 30,000 and we're home free.

:eyes:

Fortunately we don't have too much trouble with climate change and have plenty of time to test this happy face shit out.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. These aren't tidal barrages - they are turbines and can be used in more locations
than barrages.

A single 35 kW *prototype* tidal tubine produced 5000 kWh of electricity.

The newest commercial tidal turbines being deployed are rated at 1.2 - 1.5 MW.

Tidal projects underway in Maine rivers will deploy hundreds of MW-scale turbines - and will produce hundreds of thousands of MWh of electricity per year.

The rest of your post is the usual lame infantle nonsense...
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