New Low Cost Solar Panels Ready for Mass Production

[rayofreason]

Source: Industry Week

Produced at less than $1 per watt, the panels will dramatically reduce the cost of generating solar electricity and could power homes and businesses around the globe with clean energy for roughly the same cost as traditionally generated electricity.

Read more: http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=14932

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Hooray for high oil prices!!! Can't wait to get some these for my roof!

[NMDemDist2]

1. we have been watching this over in the Energy/Environmental forum

call me when the first panel rolls off an assembly line......

[OKIsItJustMe]

42. Link to the lab

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/me/facil/mel/index.html

• Materials usage is excellent (near 100%).
• Raw materials are readily available for very large volume production (hundreds of megawatts) . The raw material cost is estimated to be less than $0.40/Wp.
• No liquid waste and virtually no solid waste are generated.

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[kestrel91316]

45. One MORE reason to be incredibly proud of my alma mater, CSU.

[Deja Q]

2. WOOHOO!

K&R

[kirby]

3. This is great news...

I hope they can get production going because this could be a big boost for solar.

[sam sarrha]

4. Bu$h will probably have them Bombed.. and a threat to national security

[midnight]

5. Does anyone know how to calculate how many of these panels

you would need per sq. ft. and how much these would cost per panel. I have been waiting a long while for these panels.

[skids]

8. ranging from 11% to 13% effective...

... means somewhere in the 10 peak watts per square foot range.

Why these panels in particular are generating such a buzz I don't know. Numerous factories should be putting out cheap cells by the time they say this one will start production. Cheap production costs may also take a while to filter through to the consumer, as economically the companies are going to need to recapture capital pretty fast and apply it towards expansion, so they may price at "what the market will bear" for a while and given sales the market seems to be willing to bear premium prices right now.

My advise is not to hitch your wagon to any specific technology, just watch the prices in general and buy in when you can afford to.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Any Idea Of Average Power?

I'd imagine it's a function of latitude.

[skids]

29. lattitude and "angle of acceptance"

Different panels get different amounts when flat-mounted depending on the technology used, as some of them (most of the thin films and some with compensatig/concentrating optic sheets) can take light from a more extreme angle.

Try the PDF file linked undef "A Real World Examination of PV Systems Design and Performance" here:

http://www.uni-solar.com/interior.asp?id=49

...though keep in mind that's a particular vendor's site.

[Snotcicles]

53. I like this company check out this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJe12X6T50

[burrowowl]

9. If the 200 Megawatt plant powers 40,000 homes

then 1 home needs 5000 Watts. $10,000 to install?

[TheMadMonk]

24. Cheap.

Considering you are looking at roughly $10 per peak watt with currently available gear.


Looks as if you are including a "connect to grid" inverter to allow selling of excess power. However, I'd probably add $2000 or so worth of batteries to the system to smooth out the supply and minimise what you have to buy back in the evenings and on cloudy days.

Now something else I saw floating around here a week or so ago was some kind of ultra high capacity capacitor that might be in production within 12 months. IIRC it can be charged in minutes and has a charge density an order of magnitude higher than current state of the art batteries. If the hype is to be believed, that's 40 hrs or so runtime for a high end laptop, and a charge time of as little as four minutes. (One can only assume that charging stations would be standardised, centrally located and probably have a big bank of "ultrs-caps" on a constant trickle charge. 100+ amp plug packs would possibly be a bit much. LOL.)

[NoFederales]

32. Figure your power load (watts) from the appliances you wish to use.

You cannot match a similarly sized panel system because of losses such as sunlight, temperature, other inefficiences. If you oversize the panel system 1.5 times your expected power load you can effectively charge a battery bank while using some appliances. You don't want to try to use all of your appliances at once, and big items like refrigerator/freezers and HVAC systems are huge electrical hogs. Iverters to change DC to AC can be expensive, but not nearly so much as trying to convert everything to DC.

Do some planning and ask more questions. Recommend going to knowledgepublications dot com for good info on all sorts of energy production.

Good luck.

NoFederales

[The Doctor.]

6. Are these the ones from NJIT? That was FAST!!!

I only just heard about these a couple months ago!

WOOT!

It's gonna be a new world soon. :party: :toast: :party:

[RestoreGore]

7. Recommended. UP YOURS, EXXON

Thanks for this great news. I will definitely get this out to as many people as I can.

[roguevalley]

15. I would do this. I live in Alaska? Hopeless?

[txwhitedove]

20. Check out wind turbines on-line. I've seen smaller ones for

$10,000 and less installed.

[RestoreGore]

27. No, not hopeless

There are new innovations coming every day regarding providing solar power even to places where the sun does not always shine. We have the ability to make this a new and better world, and that is why this news is so positive because it proves that. I wish I could put one on the roof of my car!

[kestrel91316]

46. Noplace with sun is hopeless. In AK you would not be able to meet

ALL your power needs in the winter, of course, due to the very short days.

IIRC lots of folks in AK use solar PV. I just don't think it's feasible for totally off grid, at least up by Fairbanks. Down south might be doable?

[Richard D]

47. Well

You could just use the solar cell to power a light above the solar cell to keep it making electricity!


(just joking).

[kestrel91316]

50. That's right up there with my short-lived brilliant idea to have a

solar-powered hydrogen-from-water production unit onboard a hydrogen fuel cell-powered car........that EROEI got a little problematic.

[Tyler Durden]

61. try here:

http://www.mikeswindmillshop.com/

I got 2.4 Kw (3 generators) for about $1200 delivered through an eBay special. Lost 2 when we lost the house in Canada. The third hits the roof by spring.

[dpbrown]

10. I'll put them on my house!

Are they a public company? I'd like to buy some stock.

[rayofreason]

14. Privately held.

Too bad. Investors will make a killing.

[nolabels]

30. As opposed to government owning the rights?

With government whored out currently like they are, private ownership in might not be that bad. I would rather have to deal with one greedy corporation rather than twenty :shrug:

[rayofreason]

65. Actually...

..."Privately held" means that the stock is not publicly traded. You can't buy shares like you can for Apple. Government has nothing to do with it. If this company were public, I'd buy shares right away. The original investors own the company, and once they get it rolling they will probably have an initial public offering, and raise capital for expansion by taling the company public and selling stock. Just like Google did a few years ago.

[nolabels]

66. I was thinking more in the way of something like atomic energy

Though the jury might be still out on all the all things nuclear, there is no denying that there have been billions upon billions wasted on it. One might even be able to point out the splitting of the atoms advent was even the development that made government unresponsive and uncontrollable to the people in it's sphere.

Btw i understand the difference of being publicly traded and private ownership, but am pretty sure you do not need to be publicly traded to be a corporation. I was trying just point out mostly government engages in commercial enterprises and commerce to the detriment of most of us. Also many a enterprise goes public for all sorts of reasons

[lligrd]

11. Thanks For Sharing

Wonderful to see good news for a change.

[jwirr]

13. Are these panels the ones that collect power even in cloudy

weather? I read somewhere that they are working on them in Sweden and Canada. Those are the kind I want to see made affordable.

[comtec]

28. All solar panels work in cloudy weather

Actually, iirc, they work better because you get the UV without the IR.
UV blasts through most clouds like they aren't even there, which is why you can (in theory) get a sunburn on a cloudy day.
production can be lowered if there is a great deal of water vapor in the air (foggy day) but there will still be production because UV still gets through. This is what I remember from when I was on a Solar list.

basically UV is what is used to convert light into energy, and Infra Red (heat) is the byproduct of that energy production. when you remove the heat, you reduce resistance, and thus increase energy production (more heat = less energy).

The myth that you can't generate energy in cloudy days is made by the oil companies who don't want you putting up solar panels. In fact if you keep a slight spray of water on your collectors you can increase production as the water drops help to focus the energy, as well as cool the panel.

Solar + wind = totally green energy.

I would recommend anyone who is able to install panels as well as wind generation, and tie it into the grid for left overs (as you know wind is 24/7 depending). The best way to keep a Electric car green is to have a solar/wind charge station at home. I know this is not always possible, but if you can, do it.

Sending your excess energy onto the grid not only nets you some money, but it also makes that green power available to other people, which is more important really as it reduced the amount of power demand from coal and non-green power sources (the jury is still out on nuclear).

I think this is great news! You can probably also use a panel or 5 to power a laptop, as they tend to use fairly low amounts of power.

[go west young man]

51. I've always wondered about the buyback on excess energy.

Can you make any substantial money doing it? How large a system would one need? Just curious. I'm surprised more people don't do it. Is it because the amount of money to be made is too little? How large a system would one need to make a real profit?

[comtec]

68. If you can make extra, yuo can make ok money

Because "green" energy pulls a premium. That's why if you state, all green power sources, they charge you more - because they are assholes like that!

That aside, you can make some money (some say 100+ the reality is much less than that a month) but it really depend son your usage.
here are some general rules:
use low-impact refrigeration and freezing.
use your basement (if you have one) as much as possible for cool (veggie + fruit) storage
don't use AC, use blinds/curtains over windows as much as possible
use Solar heated water!!! (In my alt. energy class my instructor told us we can make one (VERY simple design) for 150 USD and it
provides a lot of water, since you can choose the tank size yourself!
Solar heated water stays warm for quite a while so even at night you can have a nice, warm bath or shower
and you aren't using energy to heat it up!
as a side, you can install a small turbine and use the radiant heat of the water (cycling with cooler water to keep a complete
cycle) to generate a small amount of energy - generally to run the pump when needed inside) - tho I dont remeber the specifics
of it.
Use low-wattage devices and Natural Sunlight as much as possible - Suntubes are low impact sunlights that provide light
Use laptops in stead of desktops
Grow your own veggies! (if you have the space, always taste better than store bought)

that should greatly reduce your energy bills, even if you aren't trying to use Solar panels to supplement your energy needs!
Living off the grid is amazingly difficult, but possible, and with all the low-energy technology out there now, it's very possible (however V E R Y expensive)

When looking at the rather outrageous cost of these tools, keep in mind the dirty energy sources you AREN'T using. That should help a bit.

Remember in the end the point of green energy, etc isn't so much convince (not relying on eh grid) but for reducing our individual carbon footprint.

[spag68]

16. solar panels

Most of the panels are between 165 and 200 watts, and are about 33 by 65 inches. While 2.00 watt installed is about half of todays best prices, what is really needed is reduction of costs by a factor of 10 to less then 80cents a watt. until then it is still worth it as long as you are grid tied and live in a state that requires the utility to pay you back watt for watt and not some reduced rate. I still don't see the industry taking off without good subsidies. However that said, one years worth of the war could put huge numbers of houses with solar power, so get with it and bug your reps. to do something about it. The nightmare of the oil and power producing industry is an independent self reliant populace that doesn't need them. Think of powering your car from solar. The jobs created are the real bonus to going solar.

[Sherman A1]

26. Agreed

"One year's worth of war", excellent point!

[DramaOnHwy61]

17. downsides: high toxicity, low durability

just sayin'...

[ProudDad]

18. Ah, you mean like fossil fuel

running through and out the tailpipe of an SUV???

[lligrd]

19. How Are They Highly Toxic?

I have never heard that. Got a link?

[DramaOnHwy61]

22. Cadmium is highly toxic.

It's discussed in another thread which I can't find anymore (no search capability yet)...
The thread title is almost the same as this: "New Low Cost Solar Panels Ready for Mass Production (CO)"

[lligrd]

25. Thanks, I'll Do Some Investigating NT

[NMDemDist2]

36. here's the link, this process claims to be very low usage (think D cell batteries)

and they have a method to keep it enclosed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=112502&mesg_id=112712

[Kolesar]

44. Ok, great, now can you explain "low durability"? ... eom

[DramaOnHwy61]

55. The electrical contact points tend to degrade over time

depending on contact material and process, as well as on the material used for the transparent window/support.
That's the main issue in durability according to what a friend in the business tells me.
It makes sense, considering the very tough environments that these cells must operate in (hot/cold cycles, dry/humid climate, UV-radiation, mechanical stress etc.)
Not that this cannot be solved, but it takes time to experiment and test.

[Kolesar]

64. I'll read about it if you give me a link...eom

[TexasBushwhacker]

34. Like lithium batteries?

There are loads of things we already use that are "highly toxic".

[DramaOnHwy61]

59. much more than Li-Ion or Li-poly batteries

But apples-to-apples, way more toxic that Silicon PV cells.

[jpak]

62. Nonsense - just sayin'

http://www.nrel.gov/pv/cdte/

http://www.nrel.gov/pv/cdte/cadmium_facts.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TW0-4MW9032-C&_user=10&_coverDate=05%2F31%2F2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=08274d331df3824eb3218568395d085a

[djp2]

21. Watch out for Big Energy- they won't like this

Oh, boy!! Watch out for a sudden problem at the manufacturing plant! Big energy won't like this. How can they stop it?? Where does "cadmium telluride= cadmium and tellurium" come from?

Thanks to Wikipedia:
"China was the top producer of cadmium with almost one-sixth world share closely followed by South Korea and Japan."
"Tellurium is produced mainly in the US, Canada, Peru, and Japan,... is the rarest stable solid element in the earth's crust."

How can big energy stop these imports???

[Kablooie]

23. Umm. "Ready for Mass Production" means by the end of NEXT year.

According to the article.

It's not going to be available anytime soon. Just like electric cars.

Everything is vaporware up to now.

[Unca Jim]

43. I drive an electric car.

Just because alternative energy equipment isn't as easy to obtain as mainstream sources doesn't mean it's vaporware.

I do agree that until it is nearly as easy to get we won't see a lot of adopters, however.

[Kolesar]

48. Heated seats?

I am really interested in an electric car. I imagine that it could have heated seats that you could heat up before disconnecting the car from the grid. I would think it would be necessary to have a battery pack heater so that the battery can deliver sufficient current. We in the "winter states" know that a car battery can only deliver a quarter of the current when the temperature is well below freezing. Do you have "anything" like these heating features.

[nolabels]

31. It was going to pay for us to go solar currently but with this develpment..........

It might pay to wait and cool the heels. The inefficiency and reduction in needed materials is also a very good sign also. Heck at current costs solar can put oil out business for energy production, but with them costs possibly halved! The more interesting part is it could make entrepreneurial dreamers viable again. All you will need is a place in the sun :-)

[One_Life_To_Give]

33. Don't worry purchase price won't drop anytime soon.

Just because they could make a profit selling the panels at $2/w it aint going to happen anytime soon. Not while they can still move 100% of their production at $4/w. That would be like you telling your employer to give yourself a cut in pay cause you could get by on less.

[nolabels]

67. Yea but people that need jobs will work for half the amount

and people with lots a cash sitting around want places to invest it in. I once thought things never change that quickly either, but have since learned they do.
It's the age we now live in :shrug:

[navarth]

35. that industryweek link doesn't seem to work...

Is it perhaps....truncated?

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

37. Well build them already

Like a cure for cancer I've been seeing this same report every six months since 1977. For the love of God shut up and build them already. At this point I'll believe it when my Home Depot has a display with free instillation. Until then I wish people would do less yapping and more building.

[phantom power]

38. Hear! Hear!

[Auggie]

39. Check out Nanosolar -- a whole new type of solar technology

http://www.nanosolar.com

Nanosolar has developed proprietary technology that makes it possible to simply roll-print solar cells that require only 1/100th as thick an absorber as a silicon-wafer.

They manufacture this like a printing press! Cheap to produce and highly flexible in application.

[Felinity]

70. How does that compare to this one?

http://www.heliovolt.net/

Brand new company in Austin, seems to be similar but I am no techie.

[Stuckinthebush]

40. Watch Carlyle Group buy up this company

and shut it down.

I wouldn't put it past the bastards.

[Auggie]

41. I'm thinking the same thing

If not Carlyle, big oil.

[lonestarnot]

49. Hot diggity! I want mine!

[smoogatz]

52. I've got a spot reserved for them on my roof.

Can't wait.

[RobertSeattle]

54. I wonder how "roof shingle" solar cells are coming along?

They you have have solar without that "solar" look.

[AikidoSoul]

56. Here's an even more efficient solar technology breakthrough that "stunned the world" (in Europe...

From what I understand, there is an even more efficient solar technology breakthrough that was invented in South Africa. It employs a metal alloy that is extremely cheap to manufacture. When I read the article in Industry Week.... I can't help wondering if the Colorado State scientists didn't "borrow" the technology from South Africa -- but add or subtract a certain component in order to avoid violating patent laws.

What's most important to my bottom line is the cost, availability, and efficiency per sqare foot of photovoltaic material.

Hard to say whether Colorado stole a little of this from South Africa. I don't have experience with metal alloys however and I do think the South Africa version differs slightly. If any of you are metalurgy experts, maybe you can analyze this better.

Here are some web links:

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/november/energy.htm

This link takes you to information about the inventor team at the University of Johannesburg:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Vivian_Alberts_thin_film_solar


The Germans have licensed the technology to manufacture it. There is some effort manufacture it in South Africa as well. Here's a link to the German company, although its site does not describe the solar technology itself:

and South Africa -- don't hear much about it here in the U.S.). It's very cheap compared to silicon based photovoltaics and is more efficient.

http://www.ife-net.de/en/kontakt.php

***************************************************************************

www.int.iol.co.za/index.php

SA solar research eclipses rest of the world
Willem Steenkamp
February 11 2006 at 12:50PM

In a scientific breakthrough that has stunned the world, a team of South African scientists has developed a revolutionary new, highly efficient solar power technology that will enable homes to obtain all their electricity from the sun.

This means high electricity bills and frequent power failures could soon be a thing of the past.

The unique South African-developed solar panels will make it possible for houses to become completely self-sufficient for energy supplies.

The panels are able to generate enough energy to run stoves, geysers, lights, TVs, fridges, computers - in short all the mod-cons of the modern house.

The new technology should be available in South Africa within a year and through a special converter, energy can be fed directly into the wiring of existing houses. New powerful storage units will allow energy storage to meet demands even in winter. The panels are so efficient they can operate through a Cape Town winter. while direct sunlight is ideal for high-energy generation, other daytime light also generates energy via the panels.

A team of scientists led by University of Johannesburg (formerly Rand Afrikaans University) scientist Professor Vivian Alberts achieved the breakthrough after 10 years of research. The South African technology has now been patented across the world.

One of the world leaders in solar energy, German company IFE Solar Systems, has invested more than R500-million in the South African invention and is set to manufacture 500 000 of the panels before the end of the year at a new plant in Germany.

Production will start next month and the factory will run 24 hours a day, producing more than 1 000 panels a day to meet expected demand.

Another large German solar company is negotiating with the South African inventors for rights to the technology, while a South African consortium of businesses are keen to build local factories.

The new, highly efficient and cheap alloy solar panel is much more efficient than the costly old silicone solar panels.

International experts have admitted that nothing else comes close to the effectiveness of the South African invention.

The South African solar panels consist of a thin layer of a unique metal alloy that converts light into energy. The photo-responsive alloy can operate on virtually all flexible surfaces, which means it could in future find a host of other applications.

Alberts said the new panels are approximately five microns thick (a human hair is 20 microns thick) while the older silicon panels are 350 microns thick. the cost of the South African technology is a fraction of the less effective silicone solar panels.

Alberts said in Switzerland it was already compulsory for all new houses to include solar technology to lessen energy demands on national grids.

"And that was the older, less effective technology. With our hours of sunlight, we will on average generate twice as much energy than, for instance, European countries."

While South African scientists developed and patented the new, super-effective alloy solar panels, other companies have developed new, super-efficient storage batteries and special converters to change the energy into the power source of a particular country (220 volts in South Africa).

SNIP

[lonestarnot]

57. WOW Way cool!

:applause:

[Totally Committed]

58. This is awesome news!

I can't wait to get some for our house!

TC

[SmokingJacket]

60. This is what I've been waiting for...

Though I suspect if I keep waiting, these things will get more and more efficient... :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

63. Maybe like pooters, it will always be already out of date by the time you buy it!

[comtec]

69. who cares, this is the kind of updates that are good

and far better for the planet than computers - which i love but have loads of toxic chemicals which are almost never properly recycled or reclaimed from old motherboards.

[Joe Chi Minh]

71. Yes, it's great news, all right.