Pumping up hydrogen cars, GM exec to push for more filling stations

[DainBramaged]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080402/BUSINESS01/804020353/1002/BUSINESS

General Motors Corp.'s leading proponent of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles will challenge the energy industry and governments to commit to developing a public hydrogen fueling infrastructure when he addresses the National Hydrogen Association's annual conference in Sacramento, Calif., today.

In his keynote address to the conference aimed at ramping up commercialization of hydrogen, GM Vice President of Research & Development and Strategic Planning Larry Burns is expected to urge cooperation from government and the energy industry and to outline GM's proposed plan for establishing hydrogen fueling stations first in small numbers in and around a few major cities and over time connecting cities to one another along main arteries.

"The automobile industry has reached a critical juncture in our journey to realize the full potential of hydrogen fuel cell-electric vehicles," Burns is expected to say as part of his prepared remarks. "We have now reached a point where the energy industry and governments must pick up their pace so we can continue to advance in a timely manner."

Urban areas that could be first to establish hydrogen fueling infrastructures include Berlin, Shanghai and Los Angeles, Burns says.

But even in California, a state that is pushing automakers to improve fuel economy and lessen vehicle dependence on fossil fuels, GM says government hasn't cleared the way for hydrogen fueling stations.

The Los Angeles area is one of three urban areas where GM has launched a pilot program called Project Driveway to put Chevrolet Equinox hydrogen fuel cell vehicles into the hands of businesses and average drivers. To support the program, GM is prepared to put in fueling stations that deliver hydrogen in a compact form, called 700-bar, that delivers the desired mileage from a fill-up. But GM was surprised at how difficult it is to get the permits it needs to build adequate fueling stations.

"We are all excited about the project and frustrated by this issue," said Chevrolet spokeswoman Carolyn Normandin.

"What is urgently needed is sufficient investment by energy providers and the cooperation of government to assure auto companies that the required hydrogen infrastructure will be in place when we deploy our next generation of fuel cell-electric vehicles."

[sam sarrha]

1. hydrogen:H2 will be made with COAL, this already is the worst environmental to ever

curse this country.
http://www.chimpsternation.com/forum?c=showthread&ThreadID=1293

http://www.wesjones.com/death.htm

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0603/feature5/index.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mountain+topping+coal&btnG=Google+Search

coal burning releases Uranium and Thorium, uranium is a toxic heavy metal that causes CANCER... the toxicity is far worse than the radiation most isotopes contain.. Google:"Depleted uranium extreme birth defects"--- caution there are graphic photos of the suffering the Republicans/ and any Democrat that voted for the war have caused, we have dumped 1000 tons of toxic uranium in Iraq so the nuclear industry could sell it at a vast profit instead of having to store it ac a deadly waste.. BuSh41 dumped about half of it..Depleted uranium is a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. ABOUT 16 % OF ALL BIRTHS IN IRAQ SUFFER EXTREME BIRTH DEFECTS.. out soldiers family's will suffer too.

http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html

http://www.yarchive.net/nuke/coal_radiation.html

[Clear Blue Sky]

2. What happens if a hydrogen car is in a big accident? Big boom?

[GliderGuider]

3. No big boom, sorry.

Even if a fuel cell was using gaseous H2 as the fuel (not all of them do), a rupture of the fuel tank would cause the hydrogen to immediately begin rising in the atmosphere. If it ignited, the flame would typically occur above the leak point. In a crash this means that the flame would happen in open air above the vehicle, unlike the flames from a pool of gasoline on the ground.

The fuel tank for gaseous H2 would be a very strong pressure vessel, and much less prone to rupture in an accident than a sheet metal gas tank. Overall the safety of fuel cell vehicles from fuel leaks and fires should be an order of magnitude better than gasoline cars.

[Clear Blue Sky]

11. Thanks. Makes sense.

Sounds like the hydrogen car is less likely to explode than a conventional gasoline car.

[DainBramaged]

4. NO badaboom

:rofl:

[hunter]

5. 700-bar = 10,000 pounds per square inch.

:scared:

I've have a healthy respect for compressed gasses. I once got injured inflating an ordinary bicycle tire. (Warning: Do not crawl into a car stuffed with camping gear to inflate the tire of your bicycle trusting the pressure reading of a gas station air hose...)

The common gas cylinders used in medicine, welding, filling helium balloons, etc., are filled to around 2,000 psi.

To quote from the usual lab safety manuals:

"Considerable mechanical energy is stored in the compressed gas in a cylinder. If an accident breaches the cylinder valve, that mechanical energy is released as thrust. The cylinder can accelerate to speeds great enough to penetrate concrete walls."

One of my former bosses witnessed such an accident -- a tank of hydrogen went right through the wall and bounced off a few cars in the parking lot. Ooops.

And then there is always stuff like this:

A woman who impaled herself on a helium gas cylinder blew up like a balloon - and thought she was going to explode.

The bizarre accident reportedly happened when Samantha Munns, 35, fell onto the sharp nozzle of a helium cylinder used to inflate children's balloons.

She had fallen from a step ladder at her toy shop in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.

And in a turn of events which has baffled doctors, her leg and stomach swelled up to twice their normal size within seconds.

Mother-of-two Mrs Munns said: "I was panic-stricken. I thought I was going to explode.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/559895.stm

Looking at the poor mechanical state of some of the cars on the road... it's quite unacceptable that they are filled with gasoline. Maybe hydrogen isn't so bad, but I'm certain it's not as idiot and accident proof as some would like to think.

[DainBramaged]

6. Maybe badaboom???

[Javaman]

7. is anyone else other than GM producing a hydrogen car? nt

[DainBramaged]

8. BMW, Toyota, possibly Ford

GM had their prototype as far back as 2005

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/09/business/hydro.php

General Motors on Sunday offered a glimpse of a possible but very different automotive future, unveiling the Sequel, its latest hydrogen car prototype, at the North American International Auto Show here.

It is a car unlike any other, and it runs on a hydrogen fuel cell, so its only tailpipe emission is water vapor, not the smog-forming pollutants and greenhouse gases that come out of gasoline-powered cars.So why do environmental groups see the Sequel not as a panacea for cars' environmental shortcomings but as GM's latest Trojan horse?

GM has trotted out impressive hydrogen-fueled cars before - most recently the Sequel's predecessor, the Hy-wire. GM says it should be economical for the company to mass-produce fuel cell vehicles by 2010 - even though most of its competitors, which are also working on the technology, say it will be decades before such vehicles are viable.

[IDemo]

9. This still looks like the best hydrogen solution for vehicles->

No high pressure (gas) or liquified hydrogen tanks necessary:

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog2/index.php/hydrogen-cars/hydrogen-power-inc-displays-h2-vehicle-at-seattle-auto-show/

[hogwyld]

10. I can't wait to see

what Toyota, Honda, and the other's come out with. At least the quality will be there.