Prius was 100% subsidized by Japanese Government

[DainBramaged]

Chrysler co-President Jim Press is stirring things up at his former employer, Toyota Motor Corp., by saying development of the Prius hybrid was subsidized by the Japanese government.

In a BusinessWeek story published Thursday, March 24, Press said that when he was at Toyota, “The Japanese government paid for 100 percent of the development of the battery and hybrid system that went into the Toyota Prius.”

Toyota today denied the remark made by Press, who left Toyota last year after a long career at the Japanese automaker. His last position there was president of Toyota Motor North America Inc.

“I can say 100 percent that Toyota received absolutely no support--no money, no grants--from the Japanese government for the development of the Prius,” Toyota spokesman Paul Nolasco told The Associated Press today in Tokyo.

According to the report, Nolasco said Toyota received no public money for developing the battery or any other part of the Prius.

The Prius dominates the U.S. hybrid market. During the first quarter, Toyota sold 42,907 Priuses, up 8.1 percent over the same period a year ago. In 2007, Toyota sold 181,221 Priuses, up 69.4 percent over 2006.

Press’ comment was in a broader story about new corporate average fuel economy standards passed by Congress and signed by President Bush in December.

Press, a longtime advocate for hybrid technology, told BusinessWeek the new laws were “just part of the political process.”

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080402/FREE/199919373/1024

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2008/04/chryslers_jim_p.html#more?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives

Did former Toyota executive James Press rat out his old company? Or was he just pointing out how smart the Japanese were to back gas-electric hybrid technology, which has been a boon to the company’s fortunes and image, especially in the U.S.

Chrysler LLC vice chairman James Press said Wednesday that he was not intending to speak negatively about Toyota, his former employer, when he told BusinessWeek that the Japanese automaker benefited from government investment in its gas-electric hybrid technology.

Press was responding to a statement made by Toyota, where the Chrysler executive worked for 37 years and served as a board member before leaving last year, denying Press’s assertion made in an interview with BusinessWeek on March 20 that the Japanese government had subsidized “100% of the research and development costs” of the automaker’s gas-electric hybrid system that was launched in the 1997 Prius and now powers all of Toyota’s hybrid vehicles.

In a wide-ranging interview with Businessweek editors and two correspondents that also included Chrysler LLC CEO Robert Nardelli and vice chairman Tom Lasorda, Press said on-the-record, “The Japanese government paid for 100% of the development of the battery and hybrid system that went into the Toyota Prius.” He did not specify the forms those investments took. But the statement contradicted those made by Press when he was a Toyota employee.

Toyota refutes Press’s claim. “I can say 100 per cent that Toyota received absolutely no support - no money, no grants - from the Japanese government for the development of the Prius,” said Toyota’s Tokyo-based spokesman Paul Nolasco.

In a statement by Press released through a spokesperson, he doesn’t refute what he said to BusinessWeek on March 20. “The Japanese government strongly supported R & D (research and development) investment in battery development, and the Prius and other Japanese models benefited from that investment.” He cited this “investment” as an example of cooperation for the U.S. government and industry. “Instead of being at odds with each other over CAFE and other policies that put U.S. companies at a disadvantage, the two should work together to find technological improvements that help give U.S. companies a competitive advantage,” said Press.
..........

I said previously, Toyota doesn't work for free, and if anyone thinks that they make money on the hybrid, think again.

Would be nice if OUR government helped Detroit for once.

[enid602]

1. investment

But will the Japanese Government get the bang for the buck that the US Government will get from its (possible) investment in Bear Stearns?

[eppur_se_muova]

32. Wicked. nt

:spank:

[Pharaoh]

2. That's what Governments should do.....

[DainBramaged]

3. But subsidizing private industry is what causes trade wars

U.S. auto executives have long maintained the only reason Toyota was able to bring its hybrid vehicles to market without losing billions was because of government subsidies.

A large part of Toyota’s Prius narrative has been that it developed the system entirely on its own, and that it had no unfair advantage over Detroit. Press’s remarks to BusinessWeek contradicted that.


From the article.

[enid602]

8. incentives

Don't you think we subsidize industries/corporations in this county? If not, what were all the Bushco corporate tax cuts about? The only difference is that most foreign governments subsidize business to EXPAND production/employment.

[DainBramaged]

9. We licensed new battery technology to the Japanese, JAPANESE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x140581

Argonne National Laboratory licenses battery technology to Toda Kogyo

[GodlessBiker]

10. Federally-funded university research results in patents that business lease...

at a fraction of the cost than if business did the research itself.

Federal money winds up into our products in so many ways. I don't see the Japanese deal as being that much different.

[mac2]

17. They get our technology for free mostly. Then they compete

with us in the market place. Not very good business I'd say.

[mac2]

11. Japan has long stolen our technology but little was done

about it. They now own it and we wonder why.

We could have protested by having tariffs and doing better than they. We could have sued over stolen patents, etc. We have not invested time and money to bring in highly trained engineers,etc. In the past...America could defeat or keep ahead of everyone. We have to have the will.

Congress has little will to even do their jobs as citizen representatives living in a democracy. That democracy was good to them. They seem to hate it.

Trade wars are better than just sitting here letting everyone steal our American patents, jobs, and markets..some factories moved "lock stock and barrel". The company CEOs forced the employees to train their foreign counterparts.

Hey America we are one of the largest markets in the world (and with buying power). We can demand they play our game. Especially those oil corporations who complain they have competition from other countries so our oil prices are high. Why are we giving them our tax dollars to destroy and rob our economy? Their excuses ring hollow. They are petty crooks.

Five years and EXXON has not paid the Alaskan people for the damage from their oil spill. People committed suicide, got divorced, and had nervous breakdowns. This is the reason corporations are so dangerous. The corporation has no compassion or ethics and profit is the bottom line above all else. The government therefore has to regulate them since they can be destructive to society and the environment.

How about a court order to garnishee their pay checks to pay for their damage to Alaskan citizens? They do claim they have the same rights as humans. Humans must obey the laws and if they don't be punished...held accountable. They have had more than one oil spill.. They don't give a blank about our land and water. Under their corporate charter, they are bad citizens and should be fined. If they still fail to act...take away their charter to do business here. They get our tax dollars and don't pay royalties. Why are we are supporting them? Do they get tax dollars from other countries...bribing them? It's profit above all else.

What suckers we are.

[jody]

4. EU governments did not subsidize Airbus development that won the USAF tanker contract and Japan did

not subsidize development of the Prius hybrid.

Believe that and you are truly gullible.

When will Americans wake up to the fact that free trade agreements the US has with other countries, e.g. NAFTA, are one way deals allowing foreign countries to subsidize their companies while denying their markets to US products.

[madrchsod]

5. of course it was

the japanese government has always "subsidized" their industry...no need to wonder why joe gibbs racing was`t invited to the meet and greet in detroit this year.

it will be interesting if toyota wins the uaw sponsored race in michigan won`t it

[DainBramaged]

6. I am disappointed in Joe Gibbs, money over honor

And I have stopped rooting for Smoke too. I may start rooting for Roush/Fenway.

[mac2]

13. Union bosses are part of those secret organizations.

They violate the Logan Act and negotiate behind closed doors. They too are dreaming of international unions.

If this wasn't true they would have been in the streets when Clinton first signed NAFTA and talked about globalization and smaller government (privitization for profit of the few). NAFTA continues to take away our good jobs and benefits for slave labor.

Democrats have abandoned workers (their base-every election they admit it). AFTER!

[mac2]

7. It's our leaders who want our automobile industry to fail.

Our workers too independent and middle class. It was to destroy the unions in the US. Detroit a Democratic city is on their knees.

Iaccoca complained about the bad economy when he was part of it. We bailed out Chrysler and then they didn't develop new cars with less gas mileage, etc. They built a new corporate office building.

No one else in the WTO gives a crap about the WTO laws. In the WTO court, we always lose. They do not (especially the EU members) lose but prosper. Ask Hillary since she was outraged about it. We even pay huge fines.

Why are we in it at all when it is leading to our downfall? Our friends come and pick off what's left after Ronnie privitization and globalism, etc.? So many years of pillaging our Common Wealth and resources by our so called friends.

What did the Congress and President expect was going to happen when we obey the rules and others don't? Get out of it. We can trade on our own just like we did in the past.

When something is failing you have to have to guts and intelligence to stop and go in another direction. Why do they (Bill Clinton, George Bush, all candidates for President, etc....Neo Cons) cling to a sinking ship?

When is this group of "political whores" (globalists) going to act in our best interest?

[aquart]

12. So the free market is NOT an advantage?

Hmm.

[mac2]

14. Free to who?

Not much in trade is free. It's very much one way trade...out. Everyday our trade deficit climbs to record numbers. Ask the candidates how they will stop that? Government infrastructure jobs aren't enough. We can't feed, protect, or control our destiny right now. We are broke. Our enemies in trade defeat us.

[DainBramaged]

15. Take the case of importing apples to japan

http://www.american.edu/TED/esp/japan-apple.htm

Japan officially opened its markets to apple imports in 1971. Because of phyto-sanitary import standards, however, not one U.S. apple entered Japan for 22 years despite continued diligence on the part of U.S. apple growers. Washington apple growers called Japan's continual barriers the "bug of the month club." As growers attempted to meet each hurdle of regulation (including fire blight and coddling moths), the Japanese allegedly continued to erect new hurdles. Finally, in 1993 the growers filed a formal complaint with the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR). The U.S. Secretary of Agriculture and the USTR sent a letter to Japan's Minister of Agriculture who. in return, promised to open Japan's markets to U.S. grown apples in 1994. However, the USTR also threatened Japan with Congressional retaliation under Section 301 of U.S. trade law. Finally, Japanese standards were changed and U.S. apples were allowed into Japan in 1995. U.S. apples sold for less than half the value of Japanese ones. However, after an initial upsurge, sales of U.S. apples in Japan dropped off. The drop-off cause: consumers complained the apples had a rather sour taste.

[mac2]

16. American apples at my supermarket are sour too.

What happened to our apples?

That's it...apples? We aren't concerned over anything else as being fair trade?

[DainBramaged]

18. We import A LOT of apples from China

Are you sure they are American apples?? They need a couple of extra days to ripen to become sweet.

And as with the Japanese, it isn't reciprocal. Nor is our apple trade with Korea


http://www.fas.usda.gov/htp/2008_Apples.pdf

[WoodyM]

19. Back when there was a textile industry in the US,

there was a biannual textile machinery trade fair held in Greenville, South Carolina. This was a very big event in the textile industry. The city and county of Greenville had over the course of time built one building to house the trade fair that became outmoded and then built another and much larger building. People from the industry all over the world came to see the latest and most up-to-date machinery.
In the late fifties, an American manufacture had a new cloth-printing machine on exhibition. For that era of time, it was a vastly better machine. It printed faster, more colors and was much easier to operate and service.
The Japanese very much interested in it. When it was in operation, they were taking movies of it. When not, they were taking still pictures, measuring and taking notes.
At the next biannual the Japanese had a printing machine on exhibition. It was a copy of the one from the last biannual. Absolutely the same design concept only with a somewhat more sophisticated dye delivery system.
Talking with a sales rep of the American company, he told me that because of the Japanese labor cost they were offering theirs at about 60 percent of the price of the American machine.

[DainBramaged]

20. Yup, and now we buy ALL of our consumer electronics from them

We even used to make TV's here, but those plants closed down years ago after I stopped working for Sanyo. They had a TV plant in Bentonville Arkansas which made TV for Walmart, and yes Virginia, I sold those TV's to Walmart.


Having worked for them for nearly 10 years in the Eighties and Nineties, I saw first hand what they were doing to this country.

And they got away with it.

[mac2]

21. Patent violation

Yet our government and union leaders did nothing.

[losthills]

22. So the Japanese government is smarter than ours....

Good.

[DainBramaged]

23. Good????

Listen, there are A LOT of Democrats in our Government, not just Rethugs. And for you to be happy that the Japanese cheat and fuck us all of the time is just wrong.

[losthills]

24. I hope you're not offended by the word, "shill."

But that's what you come off as.

The Japanese government is smart when it comes to their auto industry.
Good.

[DainBramaged]

29. I hope you are not offended by the word ignored

But you now are. Actually, I hope you are.


Come down to local 461 of the Teamsters in Union NJ any night and tell us we're shills for America. We're proud to be. Too bad you aren't.

[losthills]

31. Your industry is serving America poorly.

They are serving the oil industry, and that is bad for America and the world.

[kristopher]

25. Clever folks with solid sensibilities, those Japanese.

[DainBramaged]

30. And what are Americans?

This place has become a fucking anti-American sewer.

[kristopher]

33. More like a haven for some antiAsian bigots... nt

[DainBramaged]

34. gee the peanut gallery chimes in

MY job and thousands of jobs like mine have been outsourced to Asia. You think we love becoming shit and losing our place and not being able to make a decent living or send our kids to school?
Make of it what you will, but I won't be viewing your comments again.

[kristopher]

35. Why do you blame the Japanese.

It was the US government acting at the behest of US multinational corporations that lost those jobs. If the US government had cared for its citizens with the same diligence that the Japanese government used, those jobs would still be here.

[Javaman]

39. Because it's always easier to blame someone else than

take responcibility.

[notesdev]

26. It's a scam anyway

There's no carbon savings in using a battery. The power for that battery comes from somewhere - the battery doesn't make it on its own. Guess from where it comes? Mostly coal power plants.

And on top of that, the batteries are almost as difficult to dispose of as is nuclear waste.

Maybe Japan wants to pay to solve that part of the problem too, that would be nice.

[deadmessengers]

27. uhm, you don't know much about the Prius do you?

The Prius is a hybrid, not a plugin. The battery charge comes from energy that would have otherwise been wasted in the normal operation of the gas engine - regenerative braking for one thing, but there are other technologies.

[losthills]

28. Actually you are wrong.

The power in a battery comes from chemistry.

Disposal of batteries does not compare to nuclear waste on any level.

Please finish High School, and get back to us if you graduate.

[kristopher]

36. Wind and solar will displace coal if carbon costs captured.

The point of charging for carbon is specifically to allow the noncarbon sources of power to compete successfully - and they are set to do so. Look at the rate of growth for wind and solar over the past 30 years and pay attention to the surge associated with Kyoto.

As for the batteries, do you know something about lithium being dangerous or toxic that you'd like to share with the rest of us? Or are you thinking of obsolete lead acid batteries and the problems associated with their disposal?

[notesdev]

38. disposal

I was referring to the nickel content of the batteries and the upstream consequences of that. The nickel comes from a factory in Ontario that is so environmentally damaging that there are no living creatures - plant or animal - for miles around. The factory pumps out immense amounts of sulfur dioxide which result in acid rain.

It's one thing to be minded to be environmentally friendly; it's quite another to really look at the end-to-end consequences of a particular endeavor and analyze just how environmentally friendly it is. A lot of people make a lot of money in selling things as pro-environment when they're just shifting the pollution to somewhere else (e.g. biofuels and battery systems). They don't understand that power isn't spontaneously generated, it comes from somewhere, and that somewhere is usually a coal power plant conveniently located where there aren't too many people who care about environmental impact.

[kristopher]

40. I agree but

you need to follow tech developments a little closer; lithium ion batteries are the ones being deployed.
Regarding coal, as I said before, the specific reason for a carbon tax is to displace oil and coal. The wind and solar resources are much much larger than our present and future predicted needs to do it, and the technology to extract ready to be deployed at a price that is economically competitive with oil and coal priced to include carbon.
This is a big change and it is going to take time, but it IS going to happen.

[IDemo]

37. Not just some, but significant CO2 reduction is possible with EV's and hybrids

Even in areas using primarily coal power.

http://www.evadc.org/pwrplnt.pdf

http://www.veva.bc.ca/wtw/273.pdf

[seasat]

41. During the Clinton Aministration about a billion dollars went to US automakers for hybrids

Al Gore was in charge of it. The program, Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles, was changed to the "Freedom Car" under Shrub Inc. They changed it's mandate to hydrogen. We subsidized our big three auto makers to build something like the Prius. Why didn't they follow through?

[Traditional Liberal]

42. If you read the legislation

i know, novel concept.

Congress authorized millions to subsidize the technology being used to build the Volt and other vehicles. As soon as the Volt hits the road, GM will be turning their lobbyists into bill collectors and cashing your checks to Uncle Sam to recover the cost of the hybrid systems and the E-Rev systems they are developing.

If you don't believe me, go look it up. It's there in black and white.

[struggle4progress]

43. While in the US we subsidize -- Halliburton and Blackwater