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Has anyone heard about the huge oil deposit under N. Dakota?

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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:22 AM
Original message
Has anyone heard about the huge oil deposit under N. Dakota?
I was skipping through the truck radio the other day and heard our comedian buddy Rush talk about this (I swear I only listened for less than a minute). Anyway, I know full well that I can't believe him, so I thought I should ask here. He said that there is a massive find under N. Dak. that has been known about for a long time, but that only now can be accessed because of the new horizontal drilling techniques needed.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Great, let's turn North Dakota into a slash n' burn oil field .
Trees? Wildlife? Hockey players? Who needs 'em?

:sarcasm:
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. Form Minnesota Public Radio...
North Dakota oil patch is booming
by Dan Gunderson, Minnesota Public Radio
August 28, 2006


There's an oil boom in western North Dakota. Oil companies large and small are investing millions of dollars in new wells. The North Dakota oil industry has boomed and busted many times in the past 50 years. But some believe new technology and high oil prices will bring long term stability to the North Dakota oil patch.


http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2006/08/18/ndoil/
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. That reminds me of a Marxist joke...

Chico: I heard that there's a million dollars hidden in the house next door.
Groucho: But there is no house next door.
Chico: No? Well, then let's build one!



About those 'new horizontal drilling techniques' -- does that mean they plan on slant drilling into Canada?

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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. some wanker called WJ this morning about it...
too bad the moron doesn't understand that pulling oil from shale is counter-productive and destroys millions of gallons of fresh water. :eyes:
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Horizontal drilling in North Dakota?
Only to steal the oil from someone else's mineral rights claim.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Really expensive and damaging to extract oil shale.
yes we can 'solve' the oil problem by substituting very expensive oil for cheap oil, but the consequential economic dislocations are severe and this tactic smacks right into the related problem of global warming as it is an environmental disaster to extract this stuff, and hugely energy intensive.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. It's in the Bakken Shale Formation, which is NOT conducive to large-scale extractions . . .
The Bakken Formation has an average permeability of 0.04 to 0.06 millidarcies. Compare this with permeability readings at Ghawar, which on average range from 100 to 700 mD.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/2462

In other words, oil can move through rock at Ghawar - largely in the Arab D formation - at a rate between 2,500 and 17,500 times faster than it can move through the Bakken Shale. The only way that oil has been retrieved to date from the Bakken is through hydraulic fracturing. This involves forcing large amounts of liquid down the borehole and then using the hydraulic force of compresing the column to break up the rock so that some oil can flow out of the shale.

Short version - it's more bullshit from Rush who knows as much about geology as my cat knows about the Thirty Years' War.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Getting blood from a turnip is easy compared to getting oil out of solid rock.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Getting oil from a turnip is easier too.
turnip --> CO + H2 --> oil

It's probably much easier to grow oilseeds on top of the ground than it is to extract oil from this rock.
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Finishline42 Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Thanks for the link.
That's a lot of info on Ghawar, I skimmed but did not find anything on Bakken?

Here's an article on Bakken from a investment site. Something that's has me scratching my head is why the USGS would with hold the analysis and reports on the field? Shouldn't this be public knowledge? The North Dakoda Senator couldn't get the info released. The article doesn't say anything about your main point on how easy the oil would be to extract, but does talk about a field in Eastern Montana that is producing around 50,000 barrels a day.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/60933-the-bakken-trend-lost-dutchmen-mine-of-the-oil-patch

From the article:

Then the stuff of legends came, along with one geochemist by the name of L. C. Price. Mr. Price, working for the US Geological Survey performed extensive chemical analysis of abandoned oil wells, primarily in North Dakota and came away with an astonishing conclusion—The Bakken trend contains up to 200 billion to 500 billion, yes that is with a “B”, of original oil in place.

Here is where the story starts to take on the likeness of the Lost Dutchman Mine of the Superstition Mountains.

Price turned in his report to the USGS in 1999 and the USGS started its own review of Price’s work. Price died in 2002 with the USGS still holding onto his report and refusing to release the findings of Price and the USGS Review.

Like the German immigrant miner, Jacob Walz, who claimed he had found the legendary gold of the Supersticion Mountains, Price died without vindication of his fantastic claim, like the Lost Dutchmen mine itself, the Bakken oil remained elusive and to some illusory, the stuff that makes a good story around bars filled with oil men.

To add to the legend, the USGS, 9 years later, still has refused to release Price’s report and their review of Price’s work citing, “Price’s unorthodox approach”. Even Federal Senator Byron Dorgan of North Dakota couldn’t pry the USGS loose with a demand for release of the two reports.

But then comes along oil geologist Richard Findley. Now the seeds of legend grow stronger. Findley, a highly competent geologist with a strong penchant for independent work, suffered for years scrimping by financially unable to interest anyone with money to invest in his ideas. Financial matters were so bad for Findley that Findley came close to leaving the oil business entirely.
True to the stuff of legends, he didn’t.

Findley reviewed old drilling logs and old seismic data from abandoned wells and fields in the Bakken. Findley, in a moment of true inspirational genius came to the conclusion that all other attempts at the Bakken had missed the oil source entirely and had drilled right through it bypassing the oil that lies between two shale layers. Findley got Lycos Energy of Houston interested in the theory and Lycos brought in Halliburton to try at that time new techniques of horizontal drilling and fracturing.

What Findley, Lycos and Halliburton discovered is the Elm Coulee Field in eastern Montana. Elm Coulee now pumps 45,000 to 50,000 barrels a day of light sweet crude, real Texas T, at a 40 to 42 degree API.

Further research reveals that other analysis by geochemists and geologists not associated with the USGS confirm that Price was in essence correct. The estimates range from a low of 10 billion barrels to confirmation of Price’s 200 to 500 billion barrel estimate. After Findley and company’s 1997 discovery of the Elm Coulee one would think the rush would be on, but It wasn’t and didn’t in the U.S. But Canada was a little different story.
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. The analysis was conducted with a very 'unconventional' methodology
The author, L.C. Price, is dead and unable to defend the use of the methodology he used to come up with the estimate that the Bakken trend contains up to 200 billion to 500 billion barrels of oil. Nobody else is willing to defend it. The USGS is wise to distance itself from the analysis.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Was that Senator Dorgan (D-ND) who couldn't get it released?
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. The oil there will last a thousand years...
because thats how long it will take to extract the damned stuff there.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. There's oil in them ther hills!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota

North Dekota is rich indeed in oil. Read down under energy....also food production.

http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articles/rocky-mountain-oil-51062.aspx There's oil in them there hills!

http://www.northdakotabeautiful.com/southwest-north-dakota-tourism/12-theodore-roosevelt-national-park-medora-north-dakota.html Have you seen the movie Dancing With Wolves? It was filmed there. The Bad Lands are beautiful.

I was reading that our oil needs are actually declining in this country because of smaller cars, alternative energy production, etc. That's why they want to pillage our wallets now.

They are cutting off our mountain tops and drilling into our beautiful land for profit. Little the corporate thugs care about our land, water, or air qualitiy. That's why we have corporate laws and controls. Under Bush they are no longer enforced.

Impeach him.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yeah? Why do we have to drill horizontally? Is the alleged deposit actually in Canada?
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. The oil deposits of Iraq were drilled underground by Kwait
Edited on Wed Apr-09-08 10:49 AM by mac2
That's what Desert Storm was about. Yet another Bush war.
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