Hydrogen Goes Public in Southern California

[jpak]

http://www.cleantechblog.com/2008/06/hydrogen-goes-public-in-southern.html

<snip>

Terry Tamminen now drives a Honda FCX hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. The car is an electric vehicle that uses an electric motor, not an engine, and captures braking energy into advanced batteries. The car also has a fuel cell which takes hydrogen from the onboard storage tank and makes continuous electricity. From his home in Santa Monica, Terry can drive almost 200 miles then pull into a hydrogen station and refuel. Terry leases the car from Honda for $500 per month. The lease includes all maintenance and collision insurance. In the future, he may lease Honda’s latest fuel cell vehicle, the FCX Clarity for $600 per month, and get a range of almost 300 miles.

Unlike most places in the United States, Terry can find over ten hydrogen stations in the nearby Los Angeles area for a fill-up. Conveniently nearby is a new Shell gas station that also includes a hydrogen pump. The hydrogen is made from H2O at the station. Yes, water is split into hydrogen and oxygen. Customers like Terry can fuel their hydrogen vehicles in five minutes then drive off, an advantage over battery electric vehicles that are typically charged overnight.

<snip>

This Thursday, June 26, Shell opened a new public hydrogen fueling station, conveniently located near two of the world’s busiest freeways - the 405 and the 10. The station looks like any other Shell Station.

You can also stop and fill-up with gasoline, buy snacks, use the restroom, even inflate your tires for better mileage. “California is leading the way with clean fuels," said Graeme Sweeney, Executive Vice President for Shell Future Fuels and CO2 at the official opening of the station.

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[Hydra]

1. And they said it couldn't be done

"How will we transport it?!"

In a pipe with a faucet attached.

[wtmusic]

2. Never mind that the process is less than half as efficient

as putting the electricity in the car and driving away.

Oh, but then the "stations" would have nothing to sell us.

[Howzit]

3. Expensive solution to a non-existent problem

The hydrogen car is finding traction because it can be refueled in 5 minutes, just like the gasoline car, while charging an electric car's batteries takes several hours. So, how about making electric car batteries in packs that can be dropped and swapped in 2 minutes at "gas stations"? These stations would have all day and all night to re-charge them, and would have a stock of fully charged batteries ready to go. This way the "short range" argument against electric cars also goes away. In other words, you buy an electric car but don't own the battery. You just pay for the fresh charge on the battery. You would still be able to charge at home, but without the other limitations.

On top of that, despite of popular thinking, water vapor is in fact a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, and generating hydrogen from water using electricity just eats overall efficiency. Hydrogen is a nightmare to store and transport because the small molecules leak though almost any container and cause embrittlement of many materials.

The only reason for hydrogen as a fuel is that you may be able to run existing cars off it with minor modifications. This will save the cost and energy required to replace the entire fleet of cars with electrics. That will only be viable with a massive supply of low cost non-polluting electrical power to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen.

[oldhippie]

7. One problem with battery swaps ........

..... is that old batteries don't hold as much of a charge as new batteries. How do you know how much "juice" is in the battery pack that you just paid for and was put in your EV? As an electrical engineer that that deals with such things I can tell you it's not easy. And it is not linear with simple things like age and # of cycles. There are a lot of other variables like depth of discharge and storage temperature that do not lend themselves to easy record keeping in a mass environment.

[Howzit]

9. All the batteries can't be old

Measure the volt.amps consumed in actual use and apply that to your battery bill, not the charge that was applied to the battery. As batteries age and become inefficient, the real owner of the battery, the "gas stations" loose the difference. This gives them an incentive to keep the batteries fresh. What you loose on the swings you make up on the round-abouts.

[Poor Richard Lex]

12. that occurred to me too

what if you have an internal battery that you charge every night and a space to place a second battery for extended range. It could be like buying propane, you put a small security deposit down and pay per charge.

[oldhippie]

4. Notice that they never say .........

.... how much the hydrogen costs to fill up the tank. That bothers me.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a great advocate of renewable energy and alternate fuels. But you also have to look at the economics of the situation. Sure, there's lots of technology currnetly available. But is it economically feasible?

[wtmusic]

5. A valid point.

Hydrogen has a number of problems, but one it doesn't have is marketing.

Oil companies will have nothing to sell you when your electric car charges at home. So they need "fuel" to take gasoline's place before 100,000 gas stations become obsolete. They are pushing like hell to make that fuel hydrogen.

[Howzit]

6. Let the "gas stations" re-charge swappable batteries

See post # 3

[wtmusic]

8. The big problem with that

People will be able to do what they do with their cordless screwdrivers -- keep an extra battery pack at home charging, and tell the oil companies to shove it.

[Howzit]

10. Who says the oil companies will own these "gas stations"? n/t

[wtmusic]

11. Whoever owns them

it will be cheaper to do it yourself. There's no business plan here.