Space aliens hold key to free energy, speaker says

[flashl]

A doctor who thinks space aliens have the key to unlimited alternative energy - but that the government is keeping a lid on it - will speak tonight in Denver.

Dr. Steven M. Greer, founder of The Disclosure Project, says with gasoline at $4 a gallon, it's even more crucial now that government officials reveal what 60 years of studying UFOs has taught them.

"The energy and propulsion systems used by so-called UFOs (or extraterrestrial vehicles) has been studied for over 60 years using taxpayer funds," Greer said on his Web site. "The disclosure of this vital information would completely replace the need for oil, gas, coal and nuclear power."

Greer said that "Unacknowledged Special Access Projects" operate outside of congressional oversight and are beholden to corporate, financial and energy interests.

Skeptic groups such as the Center for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal denounce Greer as a fraud, saying he has no evidence that there is potential free energy out there for the taking.

Rock Mountain News

Forgive me, I couldn't find the appropriate dungeon to post this 'find'.

[phantom power]

1. Do we have a "humor" forum?

[OKIsItJustMe]

3. Sometimes, we need a good laugh

However, this is deadly serious! What other important alien technologies is the government keeping from us!?

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

http://www.aero2012.com/en/about.html

...

Steven M. Greer, M.D., President and CEO
Member, Board of Directors

Dr. Steven Greer, an emergency physician, is the Founder and Director of AERO (Advanced Energy Research Organization) and The Orion Project.

He has worked for 17 years to bring together the scientists, inventors and leaders in society to advance new clean technology energy systems. He is considered one of the world's foremost authorities on the strategic process of transforming our carbon-based civilization to a long-term sustainable civilization using innovative sciences and technology.

He has written several books. The most recent "Hidden Truth - Forbidden Knowledge" is his personal memoir which describes his journey in bringing out this information.

Over the years he has briefed top level CIA, Pentagon, government and corporate leaders in the US and around the world and has built mainstream support for alternative energy systems, some of which have existed since the early 1900s. He has been heard in interviews worldwide with his message of hope that these energy systems can soon be available worldwide. His goal is to assist in the creation of a sustainable, peaceful civilization on Earth that is both high tech and in harmony with the environment.

...

(Perhaps not the best choice of publicity photos!) ;-)

http://www.aero2012.com/en/orion.html

Announcing: The Orion Project

A new non-profit research foundation named The Orion Project (www.TheOrionProject.org) has been created to develop new, out-of-the-box energy solutions.

Based near the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, VA, The Orion Project has been founded to bring together highly accomplished scientists, researchers, inventors and thinkers who have expertise in advanced energy generation and propulsion technologies. Their goal is to develop bold new energy generation technologies within the next two years that will completely replace the need for oil, gas, coal and nuclear power.

It is known that, since the time of Nicola Tesla in the early 1900s, advances in energy generation and propulsion systems have been developed, only to be ignored, actively suppressed or forgotten. The Orion Project's Director, Steven M. Greer MD, notes that:

"In the past 18 years, our team has developed a database of scientific advances in new, clean tech energy systems that, if properly funded and supported, have the potential to completely revolutionize how we generate energy. These breakthroughs in physics- so-called Zero Point Energy, electro-gravitic propulsion and other systems- have, up to this point, been developed and hidden in illegally classified projects in the US, UK and elsewhere. The Orion Project has identified the most qualified brain-trust of scientists and inventors who understand this new science, and are ready to come together to help solve the energy and environmental crisis facing humanity today."

...

OK, so I'll try not to be biased against him because he's, "an emergency physician," but that really doesn't make me more willing to believe he's an expert in either energy production or massive multi-governmental conspiracies.

And, if, "He is considered one of the world's foremost authorities on the strategic process of transforming our carbon-based civilization to a long-term sustainable civilization using innovative sciences and technology." Why have I never heard of him? (Has anyone else?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWPBiQqF2o

[NNadir]

48. This post is wholly unsurprising. Most of the "renewables will save us" rhetoric is pure

science fiction.

By the way, it's the "shiny side out." You have your hat on inside out.

[Trillo]

6. With all the government secrecy,

sentences such as "Greer said that "Unacknowledged Special Access Projects" operate outside of congressional oversight and are beholden to corporate, financial and energy interests" become a question rather than something to categorically deny, sentences that when read slowly, seem to say something else besides what they may mean when placed in context of the surrounding sentences.

Remember Cheney and his 'energy meetings' that nobody, including congress, can get much info on. By making a joke out of this, particularly a contemptuous one, mass-perceptions can be influenced, both in gross, but also subtle ways.

I interpret the above sentence as a call for open government. Does the idea of "open government" also deserve contempt on a progressive political discussion board?

[phantom power]

7. Do the saucer woo-woos deserve respect, just because they mention "oversight?"

I vote "no."

[Trillo]

9. I don't know.

I seem to recall some signature line that goes something like, it's not what you don't know that gets you, its what you think you know that isn't true that does.

I've never seen a "space alien" UFO, though I have seen things in the sky that I didn't know what they were. But if I'm to believe the government scientists, these things are nothing more than hallucinations, a belittling tactic that tends to disparage the reputations of all scientists, since I, and presumably others, tend to believe what I see versus what others tell me I saw (which they cannot possibly know).

[phantom power]

10. I will see your sig-line, and raise you:

"The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness."
-- Pierre-Simon Marquis de Laplace

[Trillo]

12. Then prove their absense. n/t

[phantom power]

15. You're kidding, right?

Tell me you're kidding.

[Trillo]

20. Nah, not really. I said "I don't know".

There's another sigline, goes something like, absence of proof is not proof of absence.

There's anecdotal reports of many people, including such trained airspace observers as air traffic controllers, making UFO reports. I don't believe they claim "alien", rather, it's something they can't identify.

We have a lying government, and a business class that has raised lying to artform, while our system punishes the rest of us when we lie (particularly in K-12 schools, and in employment situations, where the punishments can be quite severe and out of proportion to the offense).

Why shouldn't UFO debunkers be brazen liars in the employ of the rulers?

[phantom power]

23. Do you see why it is not possible to get any traction from that?

Sure, I "can't prove there aren't UFOs." I can't prove that there aren't garden fairies. Or that the Yeti isn't hiding somewhere in the Himalayas. Or that Thor, Shiva and Yaweh don't exist.

Any group of people can sit around all day and discuss the infinite list of things they can't prove don't exist. That line of reasoning admits anything, and that is why it goes nowhere.

[OKIsItJustMe]

24. As a matter of fact

With a name like "phantom power" I think it quite likely that you do not exist. (It's all so obvious now!) It is just me!

[phantom power]

29. My Turing score is at *least* 75%, so stop saying that!

[OKIsItJustMe]

35. I never bought into the Turing test anyway

(at least not the way it's typically presented.)

[Trillo]

27. I think I disagree.

I believe that "I don't know" is one mantra of the unbiased scientist. So then they seek to find out.

Yes, I know you and I are talking about different things.

I've got work to do, can't get a SoundBlaster AWE64 ISA working in Debian. It's quite a cram session that's been ongoing for several days now. All because I wanted to give an old computer of mine that hasn't been used for some time to some nice neighbor kids whose parents can't afford to buy 'em a computer. I know too little about Debian. "I don't know", but I can learn.

Later.

[kristopher]

28. Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude

I think they have meds that can help....

[Trillo]

30. Then why don't you take some.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Pharmaco, only slightly eclipsed by Energy

[kristopher]

31. I used to be in the Air Force

I was a Command Post Controller, which meant we took all calls reporting things that might be a threat. I can tell you for a fact that there is no interest in UFO reports at least since the early 70s. If someone called I didn't even bother to enter it into the events log nor did i pass on the information to anyone - there was no one who cared.

I'm sure you'll figure out a way to work this into your delusion, but seriously, you should consider contacting a mental health professional. You see, I also had a friend that developed schizophrenia. You sound a lot like him.

Good luck and no ridicule is intended; I'm being very serious.

-Kristopher

[Trillo]

32. Is that you, Agent Mike?

No disrespect intended, but I simply don't believe your arm-chair diagnosis.

It's quite curious that you feel qualified to offer a mental health diagnosis, but you don't even claim to be a mental health professional. Don't you think that asserting you're a doctor, psychiatrist, or psychologist, would be more effective with respect to your feigned concern about my health.

I seem to recall some Repukes that did the same with Terry Shiavo.

What does this have to do with UFOs? Why, it seems you project your own illnesses onto others. 'flying through the air to another person' Ah, just figured out your "Air Force" reference. Very cute!

Oh, another, probably intended consequence. You're making an association that people that believe in UFOs are mentally ill. If you scroll up, you'll see I wrote that "I don't know". So it seems you not only want to associate belief in Aliens and UFOs with mental illness, you stretch it further so that even thinking about "the possibility" of "Alien" existence constitutes a mental illness!

Wow. You're really screwed up. Sounds like Republicans (and some democrats) in congress that 'march in lockstep' with each other.

At best, I'd guess yours is a tactic to keep scientists in line of official government proclamations.

I'll follow the beat of my own drummer. Not yours.

Got anymore tales to tell? I'm sure they'll be "whoppers".

[OKIsItJustMe]

34. "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is a logical falacy

formally known as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance">argument from ignorance".

[Trillo]

38. Well, I never had it in my signature. It's from another DUer.

I'm sure proving something doesn't exist is rather difficult. Too difficult in the case of Alien carrying UFOs.

Much easier to allege that people that believe in them are mentally ill, and to otherwise call for the murder of such "non-persons", since how can anyone ever go to jail for murdering nothing?

[OKIsItJustMe]

43. Easier still to assume malice unless proven otherwise

If you choose to believe I have threatened you verbally, there is no way I can prove otherwise.

---

When it comes to the question of UFO's, there is little doubt that people have seen things in the sky which they have not identified. To jump to the conclusion that they are piloted by beings from another planet is unwarranted.

For example:

• They may be secret US aircraft
• They may be secret Russian aircraft
• They may be meteors.
• They may be "sun dogs."
• They may be some form of mirage.

An example from my personal experience; a few years back, a coworker mentioned that she'd seen something large and slow moving in the sky the previous night. She had not identified it. I said, "It sounds like Venus to me." and found her an illustration of a crescent Venus, and she said (much relieved) "Yes! That's it! It did look like it had wings!" (Something she hadn't previously mentioned.)

[Trillo]

45. Sure. That's why I say "I don't know".

I have seen things in the sky I can't identify, but I've never seen anything that looks like a "saucer" (though I have seen lenticular clouds), nor a "cigar shaped" vessel that has no wings (which makes an airplane).

Yet, I have great difficulty discounting the experiences of others. I seem to recall a few years back the air traffic controllers alleged sighting. Perhaps this incident was at OHare (sp?) in Chicago. It was reported here on DU, so it should be in the archive somewhere. These would be trained airspace observers, both visual and through the use of electronic sensors such as radar, etc.

There are just too many reports over the years for me to entirely discount the possibility of alien life. So I don't believe in them or disbelieve in them.

[Clovis Sangrail]

46. erm... that's not what that entry says

first, the statement itself isn't a positive or negative assertion of anything.
It doesn't say anything is proven by an absence of evidence.

second, the wiki entry you linked to actaully has a section showing how an argument from ignorance can be validly used in some cases.
(though that's not what the quote is)

"absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" is a pretty common, and valid, dictum in scientific experimentation.

[OKIsItJustMe]

49. It's a fallacy when you draw a positive conclusion from it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

...

Argument from ignorance

The two most common forms of the argument from ignorance, both http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy">fallacious, can be reduced to the following form:

• Something is currently unexplained or insufficiently understood or explained, so it is not (or must not be) true.
• Because there appears to be a lack of evidence for one hypothesis, another chosen hypothesis is therefore considered proven.

Examples:

1. "You can't prove God doesn't exist, so God exists."
2. "You can't prove God does exist, so God doesn't exist."

...

You can't prove that UFO's aren't alien spacecraft visiting Earth, so, UFO's are alien spacecraft visiting Earth.

Of course the most infamous use of this fallacy was during the invasion of Iraq, when US soldiers found no evidence of "Weapons of Mass Destruction." (A lack of evidence of "Weapons of Mass Destruction," if you're looking for them, certainly is evidence of their absence.)

[Clovis Sangrail]

50. true enough if a conclusion is being assumed

but the quote "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" isn't drawing any conclusions... it's saying one can't be drawn.

An argument from ignorance is using a lack of evidence to argue something is/isn't true.
That saying shows that a lack of evidence can't be used to show something is/isn't true.

I suppose if you changed it to "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" it could be considered an argument from ignorance. Either that or you have to read more into it than just the quote.

[OKIsItJustMe]

51. I've too often heard it used defensively (ala Rumsfeld)

It seems I've heard it most from people who "believe in UFO's" or supernatural entities.

If you're looking for evidence to support a belief, and haven't found any, then that is evidence to the contrary.

[mainegreen]

37. Prove a negative! DO IT!

:rofl:

[Trillo]

39. 1 times negative 1 = negative 1.

1 x -1 = -1.

Going the other direction is more difficult. Lots of equations equal negative one. An infinite number of them.

I'll leave the proof of such esteemed scientific discoveries to the pedants.

[mainegreen]

41. ....

:rofl:

I love DU.

[Howzit]

53. What about

if you are screened for a medical condition and the test comes back negative? Is that proof of a negative?

[OKIsItJustMe]

54. Depends on the test

In some cases, no.

Here's an analogous example I know all too well. Today's computer "hard drives" have (so called) "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Monitoring%2C_Analysis%2C_and_Reporting_Technology">S.M.A.R.T. diagnostics."

I have seen multiple drives which (from long experience) I knew were "bad" pass "S.M.A.R.T. diagnostics." In my experience, when "S.M.A.R.T. diagnostics" say a drive is bad, it's bad. However, just because the "S.M.A.R.T. diagnostics" don't say a drive is bad, that doesn't mean it's "good."

[OKIsItJustMe]

16. After you prove your existence to my satisfaction

Personally, I think you're just a figment of my imagination. (I have a vivid imagination.)

---

One of the problems we have is a misunderstanding of "proof." In mathematics, "proof" is generally absolute (given certain "postulates.") Unfortunately, people seem to expect the same thing "in the real world" as well.

That's why in the courtroom, the prosecution has to prove guilt "beyond a 'reasonable doubt.'"

In the "real world" there really is no such thing as absolute proof. So, we hear people say, "Evolution is just a theory. There is no proof."

Of course, explanations for "gravity" are also "just theories," based on years of observation.

[Trillo]

17. I'm quite certain that's a personal attack.

Against DU rules to make such things. You have a problem following simple rules? Yet, you're making complex arguments? Why don't you go back and play with building blocks.

[OKIsItJustMe]

19. No, it's not really a personal attack

I'm merely trying to point out a logical fallacy. Rules are not necessary, when good manners suffice.

One cannot absolutely prove the absence of alien life forms visiting this planet, any more than one can absolutely prove their own existence to another person. (See "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology">phenomenology.")

[Trillo]

21. He said she said.

I made no alert, but maybe others will. To claim someone doesn't exist, or even infer that, is a personal attack. It's clear, and simple, and possibly too complex for you to grasp. For example: If someone doesn't exist, they can't be murdered.

[OKIsItJustMe]

22. I'm sorry, you're running up against classical philosophy here

René Descartes famously observed "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum">Cogito ergo sum" - I think, therefore, I am. The breakthrough was the realization that at least he could absolutely prove to himself that he existed (in some form) since he could question his own existence.

However, it does not prove that others exist, nor could it absolutely prove to a 2nd person that Descartes existed.

[Trillo]

25. Maybe so.

Thanks for "I'm sorry", even if it wasn't in the context I would have preferred. Some of those classical philosophers lived in a time before technology, that when suggesting someone didn't exist could never have been construed as a mass call to the entire world for the murder of that individual.

It's okay, I'm used to personal attacks of various kinds.

[OKIsItJustMe]

26. If you choose to take offense, that's your choice

None was intended.

[Clovis Sangrail]

47. it's a personal attack to question existence or perception? 0.o

that's an old philosophical argument.. I didn't realize it had been resolved by DU.
;)

[crikkett]

13. it is a contemptuous joke and in fact the last one I'll see from that username.

I really like the ignore function.

[hatrack]

33. Well, there's 45 seconds of my life I'll never get back . . . .

Toodles.

[Trillo]

40. Same here, but my waste of time was significantly less than 45 seconds.

You say little.

[XemaSab]

55. Unless the aliens can also warp space/time!

:tinfoilhat:

[Clovis Sangrail]

2. I wish I were in Denver

I love standup
:rofl:

[rumpel]

4. New Flying Saucer Runs on Plasma

By Greg Soltis, Staff Writer

posted: 12 June 2008 ET

A flying saucer is in the works, but it didn’t come from space. It came from Florida.

Subrata Roy, an engineering professor at the University of Florida, is trying to patent his design of a circular, spinning aircraft he dubs WEAV, short for wingless electromagnetic air vehicle.

The suggested prototype offers several advantages. It can hover and take off vertically. With no moving parts, the WEAV should be markedly reliable. And though his battery-powered model is only six inches across, Roy thinks a larger craft is possible.

Roy applied his experience doing U.S. Air Force-funded plasma research to develop the propulsion system devoid of typical aircraft parts such as propellers and engines. Here is how it works: Electrodes lining the vehicle’s surface ionize the surrounding air. This creates plasma on the vehicle’s exterior. An electrical current sent through this plasma generates a force that not only produces the necessary lift and momentum. It also stabilizes the vehicle in windy conditions.

http://www.livescience.com/technology/080612-plasma-saucer.html

[tinrobot]

5. Perhaps Religion/Theology

Xenu is a space alien, right?

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Respectfully submitted for your perusal:

Respectfully submitted for your perusal:

a Kanamit. Height: a little over nine feet. Weight: in the neighborhood of three hundred and fifty pounds.

Origin : unknown. Motives? Therein hangs the tale, for in just a moment we're going to ask you to shake hands, figuratively, with a Christopher Columbus from another galaxy and another time.

This is the Twilight Zone.

[flashl]

11. Ahh, "To Serve Man?" Forever etched in my mind. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. Unlimited Free Energy that cost $1 and a New Fertilizer

to feed the world.

One of the greatest TZ ever.

[Speck Tater]

14. Do we have a Science Fiction forum? NT

[flvegan]

36. These are not the droids you're looking for.

[MrCoffee]

42. I want to believe.

[kay1864]

44. Proof that being an MD does not keep one from being an idiot

What a maroon.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

52. People who are gullible enough to believe that there is such a

thing as a "closed system" anywhere in this universe should be pitied and cared for professionally.