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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:41 PM
Original message
China A Bottomless Pit For Oil And Gas - Business Week
EDIT

As China's economy expands, so does its thirst for oil, gas, coal, and electricity. Today, China accounts for 12.1% of the world's energy consumption. That's second only to the U.S., at 24%, and up from 9% a decade ago. China's whole modernization strategy is based on access to abundant supplies of energy. Its hungry basic industries such as steel, aluminum, and chemicals devour electricity and coal. A mushrooming middle class consumes growing quantities of heating oil and gasoline. By 2010 analysts expect some 56 million cars, minivans, and sport-utility vehicles to be rolling on China's highways -- more than twice the number today. By 2020 the country's demand for oil will nearly double, to 11 million barrels a day, natural gas consumption will more than triple, to 3.6 trillion cubic feet annually, and coal use will grow by 76%, to 2.4 billion tons a year, according to a U.S. Energy Dept. forecast.

That means China will play a key role in influencing global oil prices and energy investment flows -- not to mention climate-destabilizing carbon dioxide emissions. "There is going to be a huge increase in consumption across the region, and especially in China," says Edu Hassing, an energy analyst at the Asian Development Bank.

With China consuming ever more oil, it risks developing an ever-greater dependency on foreign vendors of crude. For the security-obsessed Chinese, that's pretty scary. Right now, though, it's hard to see how the Chinese will avoid the same fate as the U.S., which is uncomfortably dependent on oil states such as Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela. Just a decade ago, China was a net exporter of oil, but now it imports 40% of its crude as output declines at the big northeastern fields near Daqing and Liaohe. What about developing new sources at home? China is sitting on potentially rich reserves in the high, dry deserts of the far west, but gas and oil there lie much deeper than in the northeast and will cost far more to get out of the ground. And given the country's primitive pipeline and transportation networks, moving it to the coastal cities that need it will be a challenge.

EDIT

What comes through most clearly in this energy scramble, though, is a mounting Chinese obsession with securing -- and safeguarding -- sufficient oil supplies from around the world. Coal is too polluting to rely on exclusively, and even nuclear energy won't come to the rescue. The 30 new reactors, when up and running, will kick in only about 4% of the juice the country needs. Oil, meanwhile, fuels China's cars, buses, and trucks and keeps many of its industrial plants churning out goods. So the clock is ticking on locking in an oil lifeline that will keep the nation's supergrowth on track. By 2025, China will probably import 75% of its crude -- nearly twice the percentage today -- and consume 10.6% of the world's oil, the U.S. Energy Dept. estimates. Although crude has fallen some from its recent $55-a-barrel high, experts expect Chinese demand will help prop up prices for years to come. And the Chinese know just how vulnerable a country can be when its oil comes from somewhere else. In fact, the military has published a book, called Liberating Taiwan, that imagines Chinese warships seizing sea routes to the Persian Gulf and imposing an oil embargo on Taipei, Tokyo, and Washington."

EDIT

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_46/b3908044.htm
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. China just signed a $70 billion oil and gas deal with Iran
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/061D6F27-E3A5-4F9B-8E96-A5D284F15C96.htm


Looks like Boosh won't get to invade Iran as planned.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, no molded plastic chairs or Tickle Me Elmos for us if we do
Can you even IMAGINE the effects. Sales would plummet!

"My concern is not your sales, it's to protect the public. Now, this next item - Crunchy Frog - am I to understand that there's an actual frog inside?"
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. If "peak oil" is defined as the period after which
demand forever exceeds supply (I'm not sure that's the best definition), then China's demand probably moves the world into the peak-oil zone right about... now.
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brokensymmetry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yep. And next we have -
resource wars. When the U.S. and China both want more energy...and the world can't begin to supply it...then one side or the other will not have nearly enough.

Will China forever shelve hopes of development, with all the social unrest implied thereby? Or will the U.S. foreswear SUVs, cars, and air conditioning?

** got the office of President. But I wonder if even he will enjoy the next four years. I suspect they may be challenging at least; and, perhaps, heartbreaking at worst.
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Peak_Oil Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. You're kind of right.
Once demand exceeds extraction capability, we've entered the era of price inflation. People will bid up the price until the poorest are SOL. In a way, that's a kind of effective Peak Oil.

Another definition is the point at which we're extracting the maximum amount of oil out of the earth's crust that we will ever extract. It's a question of the amount of flow. Once the peak is reached, production will inevitably decline permanently, never again to rise to the previous levels of extraction.

A sign of peaking is when we're struggling to find oil extraction sources to keep up with declining extraction from established sources. Another sign is when we're extracting oil of a lower quality that the oil we used to extract. When light sweet is replaced by heavy sulpurous, you can see that we're probably out of the easy stuff and on to the crap at the bottom of the pool. The crap will become increasingly expensive and difficult to obtain. Who knows, we may even resort to violence to secure supplies of oil.

Hmmm.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. hmm. maybe, we could call it "relative" peak oil, versus "absolute"
We may not have reached absolute peak oil, but skyrocketing world demand has imposed a sort of relative-peak oil condition.
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Peak_Oil Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Could be, could be.
Part of the problem is that the data available is wildly contradictory and most likely false. Almost the only really reliable information we have is the price of oil futures.

Saudi Arabia may have gone over the top already. The US certainly has, along with Australia, the UK, Norway (any minute now), Brunei (I think), Gabon, Indonesia.... and there's more where that came from.

It might happen like a one-two punch. Or maybe it'll be years and years apart. The more I investigate, the more confused I get on the specifics.

I'm pretty sure that peak oil is a stark raving reality that we'll have to deal with very, very soon. GWB will be at the helm to usher in the end of the age of oil.

Yikes. I feel really really bad for all the poor people of the Middle East who are going to die so we can continue to buy cheap consumer goods and drive to WalMart.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Um, the Chinese are light years ahead of us on development of energy
alternatives.

It is true that pollution in China is catastrophic, but we must remember the extreme poverty from which they have risen. They have embraced what we are abandoning: Science.

They are not a "bottomless pit." We are. We are useless and deliberately uneducated and unsophisticated on the matter of energy.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oh, there's a "bottomless pit", all right
It's death.

A die-off would result in as many as six billion people being consigned to that "bottomless pit". The remaining half-billion or so would merely be in a very deep, very dark, very cold pit.

--bkl
If Life Is Just A Bowl Of Cherries,
What Am I Doing In The Era Of The Die-Off?

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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
10.  Bush has certainly embraced this concept
He is already taken Iraq back to the dark ages and is actively seeking to accelerate the 'die-off' rate of the local population. Wonder where he is going to take his program next.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. true, but they are going to be thirsty for fossil-oil, at least for
a while. And their sheer size is formidable: If they use half the oil we do, per capita, then they are still using twice the oil that we do. As far as I know, they may not even use half (per capita), but you get the idea.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. But the real question is does a single American human being have twice
"the right" to energy as a Chinese human being?

The answer is no in my estimation. If Americans, an increasingly stupid and lazy group of people, were to cut their consumption by half, to equal the Chinese per capita level, then we would be able to support 300 million Chinese.

As I keep saying, the Chinese are at least doing something: There's is not a culture that prizes scientific illiteracy. They have a practical, if draconian, program for population stabilization; they are building and designing nuclear reactors of novel types for broad application, they are actively researching biological fuels, they are providing the world wide base for scientific talent in graduate schools...the list goes on. On the other hand our nation, by a slim majority, have just announced to the planet that we have embraced scientific illiteracy on a grand scale.

How is then that we have a special right to twice the resources?
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Oh, I don't think we have any special rights to it. The Chinese
have as much right to compete for oil as we do, or the EU, or India, or anybody else.

No doubt I'm preaching to the choir, but it appears that the emerging Chinese oil demand blind-sided a lot of people. The conventional predictions about oil supply versus demand didn't take this sudden surge of demand from Asia into account, although I'm sure it was predictable to anybody keeping track of the Chinese economy.

And, as you say, they are at least treating oil like something that needs to be replaced as soon as possible. Meanwhile, we have chosen to fiddle while rome burns.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. Has anyone broken it to the developing world yet...
....that, while we've been promising them shiny western standards of living for decades in order to justify the dictators and brutal IMF reforms we keep saddling them with, it turns out that there just isn't enough to go around to make that happen?

Whoops!

Who's gonna tell them? If they haven't figured this out already, that is...

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