I got flamed for posting this in GD, but I'm not convinced it's a bad idea.

[cherokeeprogressive]

What is wrong with outlawing DRIVE-THRU fast food? If you look at this idea from simply a numbers standpoint, I can't see how it could be bad.

How many hundreds of thousands of fast food drive-thrus in the US? How many cars patronize those idle-manias in a single day?

Put it this way: You drive alone to your place of employment. It takes 45 minutes each way. During your hour long lunch, you idle alone in your car for 15 minutes at Mickey D's. That means you're idling your car for almost 15% of the time you use it every day. Multiply that by tens of millions of cars presumably idling for that much time every day and how much gas gets burned, and how much co2 gets released into the air?

Are we really so lazy as to dismiss this kind of savings and positive impact on global climate change out of hand because to some it would be inconvenient?

How about banning drive-thrus for anyone alone in a car during peak times?

I'm old enough to remember the FIRST drive-thrus, and don't think anyone missed them before they opened up.

Good puzzles are made of a thousand pieces or more. Solving the global climate change problem is without a doubt the biggest puzzle of our time. Why couldn't this be just one piece of the puzzle?

[davidinalameda]

1. I've been thinking about the same thing

I know that I've stopped using drive-thrus in order to save gas

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. I used to work across the street from an In-N-Out. At lunchtime there

It was a two lane drive-thru without an inside dining area. Two lanes, and an outside patio with three to four tables.

At lunch there were at least 25 cars combined in the two lanes, extending into the street. Not only were there cars there for 20 minutes sometimes, the backup on the boulevard caused many accidents. So it wasn't only a waste of gas, it was an insurance issue as well.

[Javaman]

40. Oh man, you had to go and say In-N-Out, didn't you?

I miss them soooooooooooooooo much.

yeah, yeah, yeah, drive thru thing bad, but In-N-Out soooooooooo evil sooooooooo good.

the gloopiness of the cheese, the onions!!! oh god, the onions!!! And the fries!!! holy crap, the fries!!!

my mouth is watering!!!

thanks, Thanks a lot!!!...hitler. LOL

[thecrow]

12. I turn my car off when I'm in line at the bank drive through

I look around me and see all that gas going up in smoke and think... "I'd like to stop this"

[MonteLukast]

2. Sometimes, it's FASTER to get out of your car and walk in.

Just like I've found it's faster sometimes to take the stairs than the escalator/elevator.

[clovis29]

9. hehehe - that happened today

My colleague asked me to get her some Chick Fil A. I got there around 1:00 pm and there must have been 20-30 cars in the drive-thru!!

I just grabbed a parking spot and marked a car in line as my "did I choose wisely?" milestone.

I went in, got in the line (and they don't do smart queuing like in some places), got my order, got out and saw my milestone car was still 6 cars from the ordering station!

I learned long ago that 3 or 4 cars in the queue means walking in is faster. And I saved a lot of gas by seeing the situation.

These conservapigs won't even stop their gas-guzzeling SUV's for their own time, much less how much they are killing the planet and costing everyone else.

Laziness costs so much.

[scrinmaster]

3. Freedom's a pesky thing, isn't it. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. Unless you're making the argument that Drive-Thru fast food is your RIGHT,

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

[cliffordu]

23. I think I understand...

This individual thinks unbridled consumption is the same thing as freedom.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. The drive thru is for Suburbans around here. The kind with the cartoon

families and little girl praying in front of a cross.

[MrModerate]

6. What's the greater risk to human health?

The idling cars or the toxic food that's served? Until you (and society as a whole) are ready to ban all behaviors that are not beneficial to optimum health -- and I for one hope we never get there -- suggesting a ban on something that the maybe-mythical "reasonable person" considers a matter of personal choice is never going to get anywhere.

Spend your efforts convincing people that drive-throughs are a bad idea and maybe the market will render drive-throughs uneconomic. Maybe it'll take $15/gallon gas. But an outright ban? Both wrongheaded and impracticable.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Impracticable how?

Will Mickey D's figure out a covert way to get food to people in their cars while no one is looking?

I don't care what you eat. Or anyone else for that matter. I'm not advocating that gubmint get into the practice of telling people what to eat.

How they get it is another matter that can be legislated by local jurisdictions without too much trouble.

How about a drive-thru tax?

[MrModerate]

15. The headwinds against micro-legislating how people use their cars . . .

(especially in ways that have heretofore been totally legal and acceptable) would be cyclonic. No one with political capital would, IMO, expend it on such an initiative.

"legislated by local jurisdictions without too much trouble." -- in your dreams. It would be a firestorm.

Impracticable? In the sense that no one would support it!

[AndyTiedye]

8. What's Wrong With Drive-Throughs?

I drive a hybrid. It does not idle.

Even if it did, I'd burn more gas getting into and out a parking space than driving through when it isn't busy.

[kristopher]

11. A lot of things like this popped up in the 70s and early 80s

Mostly though, it is a matter of personal economics that drives small changes like this. OUTLAWING something like a drive through on the basis of the sort of reasoning you've offered is pretty drastic, don't you think?

Let me suggest two things to do:
1) Do a better analysis. For example, how many people actually use drive through windows and what is the average wait?
How much gas does shutting down and restarting your car use by comparison?
Are there any other factors to consider (such as handicap access)?
Once you have that you can compile aggregate numbers and then

2) make your case to people with hard data such as "it costs X cents more, on average, to use the drive through than to walk in for service." On top of that you can then make an appeal to the larger good by showing how even if that little bit might not mean so much to the individual, they can serve the larger good by understanding that if everyone walked in, we'd save Y petroleum per year.


Not everyone would buy into it, but it would have more chance of making a difference than an appeal to use the force of law. Also, until you do a decent sketch of the problem you never know if your assumption is correct. The internet has wonderful resources for little puzzles like this.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. I've actually looked.

I've been unable to even find acceptable research into how many drive thru restaurants are in business in the US, or how many drivers patronize them daily.

I'd like to tie your points one and two with something I do know and understand. Starting a warm car that has fuel injection (and how many don't, these days?) doesn't require placing your foot on the gas pedal. For that matter, there is a starting procedure outlined in EVERY car's owner's manual about starting procedures that suggests NOT placing your foot on the pedal before or after turning the key. No extra fuel is used in the starting of a fuel injection engine, warm or cold.

[AndyTiedye]

13. Require Drive-Throughs to Serve Bicyclists!

Drive-throughs would be particularly useful for bicyclists, if we were allowed to use them.
You bike can (and probably will) get stolen in the amount of time it takes to go inside and buy some food.

[Captain Angry]

14. How much additional parking will be needed?

Drive-throughs service hundreds of people in an hour at highly efficient stores.

How do you propose your peak time ban be enforced? A policeman in an idling vehicle waiting to be notified by the cashier at McD's? The cashier refusing them service?

I understand your concern for the idling. As others have mentioned, it's a perfect situation that hybrids fix. I would love to see us get to 100% hybrids before we start telling companies how to serve their customers.

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. The peak time ban can be enforced by a sign at the order point.

How much extra parking? How about the notion that if you can't find a place to park, you start to shy away from driving to the local Mickey D's every day?

[Captain Angry]

20. As much as it sucks to drive...

It sucks more to feel like you're stuck in a building for 10 hours straight.

I used to take my lunch to work, but work tracked me down, every time. So going to the McD's drive through was a nice breath of fresh air, outside of the building, away from everything.

The drive through was very nice for picking up food for people on my way into work since it was on my way. No, I think we have other solutions to work on before we start trying to get thousands of stores to change their business flow.

On enforcement via signage, no. That doesn't work at all. That's like the signs next to the soda machine that says no free refills. I'm sorry, that doesn't work at all. The store moved the soda machine out into the dining area to reduce the labor cost of getting a soda, they don't get to put up a Les Nessman style invisible wall after I've made my purchase.

[parasim]

17. Outlawing something like that is silly... educating people about it is another story.

I don't go to drive-thrus because of the reasons you've stated. That's because I understand why it's bad. Making it illegal to do so, though, is asinine. People don't learn that way.

I mean, why not just outlaw eating meat? or let's outlaw maintaining a front yard (because supposedly 80% of our drinking water goes to watering lawns)... ?

On the other hand, why not educate people as to why these things are not so good for us?

Do we have to force everybody to do the things that we disapprove of? Seems to me that method doesn't work very well.

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. In my town the Water Dept. charges a surcharge for maintaining a lawn.

While not necessarily outlawing lawns, they've effectively discouraged residents from growing them in this place where grass is a luxury that hurts the local residents by lowering the water table.

[seriousstan]

21. Your analysis is flawed. You are idling at the drivethru 700 = 1200 rpm, Highway is 2- 4k rpm .

That doesn't even begin to address the nanny state you are suggesting.

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. Nanny state? Like outlawing smoking in bars? Outlawing smoking on beaches?

Soon to be outlawing smoking in apartment buildings?

No alcohol on public beaches?

Speed limits? (Bring the argument that says speed limits save gas. I dare ya)

[seriousstan]

25. I questioned your facts and math. Address the challenge.

It s nowhere near 15%.

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. I addressed the "nanny state" you said I proposed.

I didn't state hard numbers because I've been unable to find any.

ANY time a car idles for a reason not related to a traffic light or traffic jam is a waste.

[seriousstan]

28. You said "That means you're idling your car for almost 15% of the time you use it every day"

That is what I disputed. You can move the goalposts anywhere you want to.

Tell me, how much carbon is emitted when you start your car as opposed to letting it idle?

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. Starting my warm engine vs. letting it idle for 15-20 minutes?

Offhand, I'd have to say less.

I didn't move any goalposts. Your post title was a statement, not a question.

The text of your message addressed a proposed "nanny state". Those facts are indisputable.

[seriousstan]

31. You made me investigate. I am wrong. Idle wins up to around 60 sec.

My bad.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Hey no problem. I don't want to start a pissing contest.

I just hate to think that a fuel saving idea is dismissed out of hand in deference to convenience or the thought of it being a "nanny state" answer to THE most grave problem facing our existence.

[seriousstan]

34. I am not one in favor of government having more power in my life. ESPECIALLY

about something like my car idling at Macky Dees.

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. So surely then you're against national speed limits, as well as

the gubmint telling you that trans fats are something that we won't allow people to sell you without some kind of warning, or failing that, some kind of regulation thereof.

How do you feel about non-smoking regulations in bars/restaurants?

Is it okay in some instances, but not in others?

[seriousstan]

36. I like big greasy bacon cheeseburgers in fast convertible cars with no seat belts

doing 120 down the freeway while drinking an open half-gallon of gin.

If you can equate this to banning drive thrus, we have no common ground.

[cherokeeprogressive]

37. Excellent point. Thanks. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. Your argument seems to fall into one of two categories:

Either the savings are so minimal as to be outweighed by convenience.

Or

I can't think of an or. Help me out here?

[seriousstan]

33. Maybe I am like most members of politics and I assume the little people will cover my slack.

[ben_meyers]

22. How about bringing back

Car Hops on roller skates? I'm serious. Give some kids a job and cut down on the idling. That's were I met my wife 45 years ago. A&W Papa Burger Deluxe with raw onion, sliced not chopped, and a shot or 2 of rum in the root beer. (had to bring your own rum)

[TreasonousBastard]

27. My town outlaws all drivethroughs, except for...

some banks that were grandfathered in.

That was the deal for a McDonald's to come in-- you can open, but no drivethrough.

(I hate drivethroughs and would be perfectly happy if they all closed down, except that the useless, fat, lazy, obnoxious fuckers that use them would all end up coming inside and I'd have to smell them.)

[MercutioATC]

38. Who sits around with their car idling?

I either take the food to wherever I'm going or eat it while I'm driving.

[skids]

39. My car doesn't idle in drive thrus, and even those that do...

...would probably waste more gas on the restart/reheat after a ten minute park.

Maybe before you advocate this you should get some solid numbers.

[ramapo]

41. I hate drive thru anything

For the most part people are too lazy to get out of the car and walk inside. Yes, it is good for the handicapped etc. Drive-thrus are slow. The cars clog up the lots. I've been blocked trying to enter and park. Sometimes the line extends into the street.

[One_Life_To_Give]

42. Think Mother with very small kids

Getting one or two carseats out and carrying the kids inside versus ording and being serviced at a drive thru. Now ask who she will never vote for again when she is forced to lug the kids inside?

While for many people it wouldn't have a huge impact. You could easily get a few percent who would never vote Democrat again if this was pushed by Dem's. And just how many elections can we afford to give up 4-10% on?