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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:12 PM
Original message
Let's Use Wind to Power Cars
Let's Use Wind to Power Cars
by Lester R. Brown

Legendary Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens is half right. We do need to harness this country's wind resources for a homegrown source of electricity, as he has been urging this summer in expensive television ads. And we do need to reduce the $700 billion we may soon be paying annually for imported oil.

But part two of Pickens's plan -- to move natural gas out of electricity production and use it to fuel cars instead -- just doesn't make sense.

Why not use the wind-generated electricity to power cars directly? Natural gas is still a fossil fuel that emits climate-changing gases when burned.

Plug-in cars are here, nearly ready to market. We just need to put wind in the driver's seat. Several major auto manufacturers, including GM, Ford, Toyota and Nissan, are producing plug-in hybrids. Both Toyota and GM are committed to marketing plug-in hybrids in 2010. Toyota might even try to deliver a plug-in version of its Prius gas-electric hybrid, the bestseller whose U.S. sales match those of all other hybrids combined, next year.

.......

Some 30 states now have commercial-scale wind farms. The potential -- and the desire for wind energy -- is high. That's because wind wins on almost every count. It is carbon-free, cheap, abundant and inexhaustible -- and it is ours. No one can embargo the supply, the price never changes, and wind farms can be built in 12 months.

This is why shifting to natural gas to fuel cars, as Pickens recommends, isn't the best move. In contrast to wind-generated electricity, where costs are falling, the price of natural gas is on its way up.

Beyond that, there's the infrastructure question. How do we get the natural gas to the nation's service stations? These stations also would need to install pumps for natural gas, in addition to those for gasoline.

One of the attractions of pairing wind energy and plug-in hybrid cars is that it would not require new infrastructure. Indeed, a study by Pacific Northwest National Laboratory points out that the existing grid, using its off-peak capacity to recharge cars, could provide electricity for more than 70 percent of the U.S. fleet if all cars were plug-in hybrids.

While gasoline prices are probably headed to $5 to $10 a gallon, the wind-generated-electricity equivalent of a gallon of gasoline costs less than $1.

We are now in a position to launch a crash program to convert to plug-in hybrids on a massive scale and at wartime speed. This would resuscitate Detroit, reinvigorate thousands of the country's wind-rich rural communities, dramatically cut carbon emissions and quickly reduce the vast outflow of dollars for imported oil.

Lester R. Brown is president of the Earth Policy Institute and the author of "Plan B 3.0: Mobilizing to Save Civilization."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/07-3
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nobody ever mentions that NG prices will go through the roof if/when demand goes up.
It'll be the same price as petroleum, which means home heating bills will almost triple. Just lovely. :eyes:

T.Boner is in this for the money, and nothing else.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. The notion of driving around with a windmill on the roof seems kinda funny
:rofl:
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Stellabella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why can't we harness the wind generated
when cars go at freeway speeds? I mean something in the engine that would harness the power of the air you're displacing as you move forward.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. WooHoo--Perpetual motion.
Honestly--it doesn't work. You put more energy into pushing the car down the road than you can harvest from the wind.
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Let's park the car (plugged in) in a garage with a windmill on the roof.
I've had this design in mind for years. And smallish solar panels on the sides of the windmill tower. why not?
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The Croquist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I don't know if it would work
and I'm not even sure it is the first step.

The Croquist's plan for windmills

To power a car by wind you need:
A windmill
Wind
a car (or two) plugged in (let's call it 14 hours a day)
An inverter

On the other hand to heat your water, house, pool and hot tub you need:
A windmill
Wind
A electric water heater (with a backup)
A few electric heaters scattered around the house

You can run heaters on DC without an inverter and unlike a car the power can be used constantly as long as it's needed. They can put any and all heat in the house during the day when you are at work. Depending on where you live you don't need heat in the summer but heating a pool or hot tub wouldn't suck. This will work even in very light wind conditions.

If it doesn't keep up the thermostat kicks in with your old furnace and old water heater.

Solar panels alone just don't cut it. That's why they use mirrors to concentrate the light.

At times in the winter you could heat your house as much as you want to for free.

If you find that you still have extra power buy an inverter and give it priority. Hopefully by now you are comfortable with wind power. Regardless, most cars will still need conventional engines as a backup.
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I drive very little, and short distances only, and live in a wind-rich area,
so I think the wind-powered garage charger would work here (near Buffalo Ridge). Batteries are still being developed/evolved and solar is making great leaps and bounds.

The first guy who drove a Model-T probably had dreams of something very like a Maserati, but he knew it couldn't be built at that time.
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The Croquist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Please tell me that Stellabella was kidding
Please...
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Stellabella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Why?
I can't get an answer to an honest question?

Sheesh.
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The Croquist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Here is the answer
If you put a windmill on a car the wind from the forward velocity of the car will turn the windmill and you can indeed produce power.

So far so good.

However all of the power you produce comes at the expense of increased wind resistance against the forward motion of the car. In other wards you will have to use more power to move the car forward and turn the windmill then just move the car forward.

In essence even at a theoretical 100% efficiency you will spend as much power turning the windmill as you gain from converting the power generated from the windmill back into electricity.

Since the system will not be 100% (no human built systems are) it will end up costing you power. That is before you buy the equipment to install this device.

Sorry for being rude.
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Stellabella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thanks!
And it's okay. Everybody's on edge these days.
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
4.  natural gas burns much cleaner than oil
and it is a much more efficient fuel. n/t
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. As was mentioned upthread though the price will skyrocket AND
you would have to convert the existing fleet to natural gas first. Why not go straight to primarily public transportation, augmented by electric vehicles?

That sack of shit Pickens is just trying to get as many subsidies as possible. I'd like to see wind development from any angle but Natural Gas needs to go the way of oil.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Legendary oilman?"
The popular enthusiam for this freak, Pickens, would be hilarious if it wasn't so awful.

I've seen this junk everywhere among the Pavlov's dog set.

Say "wind" and you're a hero, even when you're talking out your ass.

The fucker dumps billion ton quantities of dangerous fossil fuel waste into the atmosphere and then gets lots of oblivious people to cheer for him merely by offering a stupid wind plan that will not work, should not work and should not even be attempted.

This is OK in cartoons, like the "Star Wars" series when Darth Vader was miraculously transformed into a "dear old dad," but in serious matters, like energy and the enviroment, cartoons are dangerous.

Do any of the people cheering for this creep have any sense of scale?

No?

Why am I not surprised?
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Why don't we reinvigorate public transportation...
... and use wind (among many other energy sources) to power it?

The idea of travelling wherever we want, whenever we want by automobile is never questioned in any scenario. Of course, doing so is to question the American definition of freedom, so it inevitably will provoke an emotional response.
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AnnaLouise Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Palin cancelled wind farm in state budget.. replaced it with .5 billion to big oil
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. Or vice versa...
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