Tesla Roadster consumes two refrigerators worth of energy while PARKED.

[NNadir]

Tesla co-founder Martin Eberhard has never been one to mince words about the company or car he helped create, and it doesn't look like that's about to change, with him now taking advantage of his blog to spread the word about "one little thing wrong" with the car. Apparently, like some other Tesla drivers, he noticed that the ESS coolant pump seemed to be running all the time, even when it had been parked and left off for a long time. After a bit more investigation, Eberhard determined that the coolant pump and support electronics drew a hefty 14 kilowatt-hours in four days just sitting in his garage, which translates to 1,278 kWh per year, or the rough equivalent of two large refridgerator...

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/tesla-co-founder-says-car-wastes-energy-while-parked/

Car CULTure...

You gotta love it.

[kristopher]

1. Tesla co-founder gets the boot, "not at all happy" about it

Tesla co-founder gets the boot, "not at all happy" about it

by Paul Miller, posted Dec 7th 2007 at 8:56AM
Former Tesla CEO and co-founder Martin Eberhard got a vague demotion to "President of Technology" in August, so perhaps we should've seen it coming, but it looks like he's now been phased out entirely -- which doesn't really point to happy fun times in Tesla land. We're not sure if it has something to do with production delays, personality differences, or maybe that scruffy beard he's been working on, but whatever the reason, Eberhard (or at least his message boarding impostor) isn't too pleased: "I am not at all happy with the way I was treated, and I do not think this was the very best way to handle a transition -- not the best for Tesla Motors, not the best for Tesla's customers (to whom I still feel a strong sense of responsibility), and not for Tesla's investors." He did mention that he'll be available to the new CEO, Ze'ev Drori "should he wish to avail himself of my experience," but he won't be taking on advisory board responsibilities as the company's official statement suggests.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/07/tesla-co-founder-gets-the-boot-not-at-all-happy-about-it/


This was posted once before here, and it is a single report on Tesla's blog by one owner. I didn't realize at the time I read it that it was from a Eberhard.

[NNadir]

3. And your point is?

What?

Are you saying that the fucking car doesn't have a fan that consumes as much electricity as two refrigerators?

It's more yuppie consumer junk.

I never thought that this car was worth shit. Why? Because it's a car..

What are cars?

They're the stupid idea of distributed energy - libertarian Ayn Rand type "freedom" marketing - run wild.

I always thought it was more crass consumerism masquerading as "green." It's pure Amory Lovins, delusional shell games with energy.

Got it?

No?

Why am I not surprised?

Sitting in a garage doing nothing the car consumes more power than the average citizen of Nigeria. That's disgusting, positively disgusting, but one would not expect a consumer asshole driving around with a huge engine connected to a frame plastered with an "Obama" sticker to know that.

[kristopher]

4. No, ONE car sitting in a disgruntled employee's garage

is CLAIMED to have a software glitch causing the cooling system to run continuously.

Please go back to the NEI and tell them they've lost, Obama won the election.

[ixion]

7. so...you're saying we should go back to horses?

it seems that your premise: "All cars are bad," is sorely lacking in realism. We need some type of vehicle subset to get around. Walking and horseback isn't going to cut it. What do you propose?

[Terry in Austin]

26. Going FORWARD to horses may be in the cards, though

We may "need" some type of vehicle, and we will probably cling to it for as long as we have a choice. But let's not consider ourselves entitled to the luxury. All we're really entitled to is our own walking feet. We may end up having no choice but to "cut it."

That said, it's still worthwhile to try to bust out of the "car" paradigm. That's definitely realistic, even necessary. There are lots of types of vehicles that aren't "cars" as we think of them. Some may prove to be very viable alternatives. For instance, personal rapid transit combines aspects of personal and mass transportation. It's human-scale, on-demand, and the infrastructure is significantly less expensive than light rail or roadways.

But the car as we know it -- the two-ton, mile-a-minute, industrial-age American Freedom and Potency Machine -- does not have a bright future, to say the least.

[jpak]

15. "but one would not expect a consumer asshole driving around...with an "Obama" sticker to know that"

I know some people are disappointed that McCain lost but still cling pathetically to their sicko fundie pro-nuke delusions, but this is reality....

McCain lost.

McCain lost.

McCain lost

No 45 new McCain nucular reactors for you...

:rofl:

[jpak]

18. Are all Obama supporters "assholes"???

Please - tell us all about it.

[kristopher]

2. So let me get this straight

Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, nuclear waste disposal and nuclear proliferation nothing to be concerned about, but you'd present this as an implied death sentence for all EV technology?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

5. somehow... I have lost the point of the post....

between the not-so-thinly veiled competing agendas being posted...:shrug:

[Greyhound]

8. Glad to hear it's not just me. Does Saran wrap count as a veil? n/t

[FreakinDJ]

9. Show me another Electric Car with 200 mile range

The Tesla Electric car is ground breaking

[NNadir]

12. Show me any car that is not an environmental disaster.

The car CULTure has broken lots of ground, and covered it with asphalt and concrete.

It's been a complete disaster.

[FreakinDJ]

16. Try being Honest - You mean "STOP BREATHING PEOPLE"

I simply detest the "Environmentalist Crowd" too scared to admit what they actually mean is there are simply way too many people on this planet for them to enjoy it "As They Conceive it In Their Own Mind"

All the while rushing the WalMart to buy goods made in the most polluting Country in the world.

While there are many great arguments in favor of population control I see the "Greeners" espousing none of them

[Arger68]

28. Show me one nuclear plant that is not an environmental

disaster. The entire human race is an environmental disaster, at least for the last couple thousand years or more.

[Ian David]

10. If you're so smart, call the company and tell them how to fix it.

Give me a fucking break.

[NNadir]

11. The way to fix the car CULTure is to abandon it.

If anyone here needs to give anyone a "fucking break," it's the greenwashing morons who talk about "green cars."

[jpak]

14. You can start with your own car. Sell it to the junkyard and have it crushed - today

McCain lost

McCain lost

McCain lost

McCain lost

No nukes for you...

:evilgrin:

[Ian David]

17. Thank you, Lothar of The Hill People. n/t

[End Of The Road]

19. What fantasy world do you live in?

It's gonna take a looooong time to undo the 20th century.

[jpak]

20. a very sick one

:evilgrin:

[hunter]

21. On the contrary. I think it will come undone quite quickly.

Cleaning up the wreckage -- that will take a long time.

[Howzit]

23. I suppose trains are the alternative to personal transportation, or are you thinking teleporter?

I know freight trains are wonderfully efficient when fully laden, but how efficient are passenger trains? People are not very heavy and don't stack very well, so the loading density cannot compare with freight.

How many joules per passenger per mile do trains use on *average*, considering that trains run on schedule whether they carry a full load or no one at all? Personal cars do not use energy when the owner is not going somewhere, and that is most of the time. This should be true, no matter if cars are electric, hybrid or fossil fuel powered, and improves their average effective efficiency, compared to trains. If it not true for the Tesla, then fix it - I have spare batteries in my kitchen that are fully charged and don't need to be cooled.

Won't most commuters need to use cars to get to the train stations anyway? Trains are good where population density is very high and people don't all own cars, such as New York city. For the rest, a car of some kind seems like a good alternative.

[madokie]

24. We'll never get rid of the automobile

Automobiles are going to go throught some drastic changes, such as EV's but we'll always have a need for them. imho

[Greyskye]

25. Please post your alternative solution.

The one that fixes our energy problems, and still allows us to transport goods and provide services.

What exactly do you envision a post "car culture" society to be like?

[GliderGuider]

27. One alternative solution

Is for society to reorganize itself. Not voluntarily, of course, but as a result of increasing economic pressure. I'd expect a successfully reorganized society to have much denser population centers containing localized manufacturing and services, with large areas between them that have essentially been abandoned from a residential point of view. An organization like that saves energy and allows goods and services to be provided, because transportation distances (for everything except food and raw materials) have been greatly reduced.

Maintaining the current diffuse geographic structure of American society isn't likely to be possible for much longer. I'd expect to see one of two outcomes in 50 years: a country with 80% of its population concentrated in cities and the other 20% engaged in farming, or one with 20% in cities and 80% farming (but with a much lower overall population). The first scenario happens if Peak Oil mitigation is successful, the second happens if it's unsuccessful.

[Greyskye]

29. Oh come on.

I want to hear what his solution to the "car CULTure" is. What you state is the most obvious scenario, but I have yet to hear one solution from the man, just the nonstop iteration of "cars are evil". He says we must get rid of cars. I want to hear what his transition plan is.

It's easy to sneer from the sidelines. It's more difficult to provide workable alternatives.

Hell, my 10 year old son made the (astute) observation to me a couple weeks ago, that if our communities were smaller, and arranged around places that people work, people wouldn't need to drive most of the time. That's not a concept that requires a genius.

NNadir keeps saying that we should get rid of the "car culture". I've yet to see him propose any alternatives.

[kristopher]

30. Most obvious, not most likely

Total energy input into the system now is in the realm of 100 quadrillion BTUs of energy. Most of that is wasted with thermal generation and internal combustion engines. The most likely scenario is the one planned - switch to a renewable energy infrastructure that supports electric drive automobiles. This would be much less expensive and much faster to implement than would any large-scale demographic shift and build out of public transportation.

[GliderGuider]

31. Whether one thinks it's likely or not depends on one's assumptions

Specifically, assumptions about time scale, the post-peak decline rate and the state of the global economy.

The combination of a peak in 2007, a post-peak decline rate of 5% pa starting in 2011 and ramping to 9% within four years and a global deflationary depression starting in 2009 would IMO make a substitutionist scenario hopelessly unrealistic.

One factor that might alter this scenario is a that the global economic crash will depress the demand for oil. Unfortunately, if that drop in demand makes oil even cheaper and takes the possibility of a consumer-driven substitution of electrical transportation off the table (i.e. many people decide to stick with their old oil-burners because they don't have the income or savings left for an electric car), it leaves us entirely at the mercy of government policies.

Unfortunately those official policies would have a reasonable chance of being along the lines of "Oil is now cheap enough, we're functioning within the supply envelope, the cost of subsidizing new electrical transportation is high and that money could be used more profitably in other parts of the economy, so subsidies for personal electrical transportation are off the table."

I think we've got less than ten years to get such a decent electrical infrastructure in place, and given the level of risk that has entered the capital markets I think it's unlikely any major investor would put large amounts of money into windmills or electric cars without government guarantees. I don't expect such guarantees to be widely available as the world's tax base goes into decline.

But hey, I could be wrong.

[kristopher]

32. You always are...

Wrong, that is.

[lectrobyte]

33. Sounds like a software bug or a bad sensor. I'd be happy to fix it for

them, would even give them a break on my normal consulting rate.

[tinrobot]

13. Poor design decision, but not a fatal one.

I'm sure that Tesla can find a way to fix that issue.

Gasoline powered cars get recalled for more serious problems all the time. It's part of the business.

[CRF450]

22. You have a pretty extreme view of cars, the ownership and use of them...

And this is a losing issue for you. For the foreseeable future, cars or any type of automobiles arent going anywhere.