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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 02:32 AM
Original message
Ebb and flow of wind power stress NW power grid
In the space of one hour last month, electricity generated at wind farms in the eastern end of the Columbia River Gorge shot up by 1,000 megawatts - enough to power some 680,000 homes. Less than an hour later, it plummeted almost as much.

Sitting in front of 10 computer screens in a fifth-floor room of the federal Bonneville Power Administration headquarters in Portland, Kim Randolph had to react quickly. Working from a keyboard, she diverted millions of gallons of water away from massive turbines spinning in Columbia River dams and sent it around the dams.

The 17-year veteran power operations specialist remembers how fast she needed to work as a wind storm caused generation to peak and fall three times over eight hours. "You have to get it in hand and get it in hand very quickly," she said.

Getting it in hand is a balancing act. It means balancing the power generated by 31 dams, a nuclear power plant and now wind farms in order to send a stable flow of power into the BPA's 15,238-mile grid across the Pacific Northwest.

It also means balancing the grid's needs against those of fish and commercial river traffic on the Columbia River. Getting power from wind, which can vary greatly, is complicating that balancing act. In coping with the variations, the BPA has at times adjusted flows through dams at rates that exceeded guidelines established to protect fish.

"It is stressful. You have the threat of fish issues on one hand you are trying to prevent, and at the same time you're trying to meet load," she said. The events of June 4 and 5 highlight the challenge facing the agency, utilities and wind generators across the region as wind farms sprout at a dizzying pace, much faster than anyone had anticipated.

From a humble start at 25 megawatts in 1998, wind generating capacity on the BPA grid galloped to 2,105 megawatts as of May this year, doubling in just the last 21 months. It's enough energy to power two cities the size of Seattle. And there's more to come. Wind power on the Bonneville system could reach 6,000 megawatts within four years, according to agency estimates.

But the marriage of wind and water has begun to strain the system. Fish need flowing water. Holding water behind dams when there's plenty of wind power reduces that flow and harms fish. But sending enough water around the dam - not through the turbines - for fish reduces the ability to generate power that will be needed when the wind dies off.

By 2011, the agency estimates the system will run out of the capacity to adjust enough to accommodate for the variations of wind power. As a result, the BPA, a nonprofit federal power-marketing agency, is accelerating plans for change, including: building more capacity, flexibility and quicker response times; implementing better forecasting tools; and sharing the responsibility for moving power within and outside the region.

"This issue is absolutely forcing greater coordination and collaboration among the region's utilities than just about any issue since putting in the hydro dams," said Elliott Manzier, Bonneville's senior vice president for corporate strategy. "The issue is much bigger than BPA. It is a Northwest issue."

More: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_balancing_wind.html
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. k/r
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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. the Wind Taliban gets paid first
why is that?

from the story, at certain times, water is sent around
hydro dams, that would otherwise
produce electricity

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AnOhioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The "wind taliban"? Nice histrionics
As wind power becomes more of a factor, steps will need to be taken to compensate for times when the generation is peaking and the times it isn't. As with every other application or technology, some time will be required to work the bugs out.

Using the phrase "wind taliban" contributes nothing to the discussion.
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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. who pays for spinning reserve? .n/t
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vincna Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is going to cost money...
and the the wind generators should pick up the tab. There is a cost associated with maintaining spinning reserve and with thousands of megawatts of unpredictable wind power online, it will be substantial. The only practical way I can think of to manage this is to have a number of hydroturbines running at "synch-idle" and throttling them to even out the flow of power to the grid. (You could do it with combustion turbines, but that would involve burning fuel and would be more expensive and environmentally undesirable) The dam operator will get paid for spinning reserve and the wind operator, who is responsible for the system instability, should be charged for it. The dam operator and the wind operator should share the capacity payment.

The wind generator should pay for the system upgrades if and when they are needed to maintain system stability. There is nothing new about this - an interconnection study is always performed when new generation is proposed and any needed system upgrades are paid for by the proposed generator. The needed upgrades are typically limited to the transmission system, but with wind, you might need to upgrade the systems ability to provide spinning reserve, in addition to possible transmission upgrades.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. I wonder if the frog will someday have to jump.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Only if the frog ...
... has a crooked CPA working for him -- who has been peddling the same argument since 1978.

--d!
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R for the truth about wind power.
It blows!

:dem:

-Laelth
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. How does Denmark deal with these problems? They get 20% of their power from wind
now.
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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10.  A better managed grid. That's the point of the OP.
Edited on Mon Jul-27-09 10:18 PM by Fledermaus
The grid needs to be managed better. The phrase thats used now is smart grid.

From the original OP
By 2011, the agency estimates the system will run out of the capacity to adjust enough to accommodate for the variations of wind power. As a result, the BPA, a nonprofit federal power-marketing agency, is accelerating plans for change, including: building more capacity, flexibility and quicker response times; implementing better forecasting tools; and sharing the responsibility for moving power within and outside the region.

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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. who pays? n/t
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Who uses elelctrical energy?
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 01:51 AM by depakid
On the other hand, who likes eating cooked salmon and steelhead trout?
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. There you go...
worrying about little things like parasites again.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. curiious that you'd mention parasites
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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. the users don't benefit. Bonneville does not benefit
when water is sent around the dams, instead of making electricity, who benefits?

electric power customers? No
Bonneville? other than avoided wear on the turbines, No

only the wind Taliban benefits..


they should be paid,
avoided cost only.

wind is a mature source of power.
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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The fish benifit, and The Bonneville Power Administration is a federal agency under the DOE
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 05:25 PM by Fledermaus
The Bonneville Power Administration, headquartered in Portland, Oregon, is a federal agency under the U.S. Department of Energy. BPA serves the Pacific Northwest through operating an extensive electricity transmission system and marketing wholesale electrical power at cost from federal dams, one non-federal nuclear plant and other nonfederal hydroelectric and wind energy generation facilities. BPA aims to be a national leader in providing high reliability, low rates consistent with sound business principles, responsible environmental stewardship and accountability to the region.

Wind Power

The Bonneville Power Administration strongly supports Northwest wind power development. We have more than 2,000 megawatts of wind power connected to our grid today and expect to have up to 6,000 MW by 2013. We are facilitating wind power's growth by:


Building and financing wind-integration transmission,
Revamping grid operation to handle large amounts of variable generation,
Creating new wind power friendly business practices.

Transmission of Wind Power

BPA has built five substations and six tap lines to tie 19 wind projects totaling more than 1,000 turbines to its grid. For details, see:


Transmission line and infrastructure projects
Wind generation data
Wind projects map (pdf)
Wind Integration Team Initiatives

BPA's Wind Integration Team is developing sophisticated new institutional and commercial approaches to managing power systems cost-effectively with large amounts of wind power. We welcome your involvement.
BPA Wind Power Purchases

Environmentally Preferred Power Sales
Wind Research and Demonstration

Current BPA Wind RD&D Projects (pdf)
Renewable Energy Roadmap (pdf)
2008 Wind Forecasting Workshop

BPA Wind Power Purchases

Environmentally Preferred Power Sales

Wind Integration Team Initiatives

BPA's Wind Integration Team is developing sophisticated new institutional and commercial approaches to managing power systems cost-effectively with large amounts of wind power. We welcome your involvement.

Wind Research and Demonstration

Current BPA Wind RD&D Projects (pdf)
Renewable Energy Roadmap (pdf)
2008 Wind Forecasting Workshop




http://www.bpa.gov/corporate/
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