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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 02:14 AM
Original message
Setting the record straight
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 02:37 AM by kristopher
This post in in response to a personal challenge to me on a number of threads. "The Google Plan" was based on analysis done by and was written by Jeff Greenblat, Google's point man on energy. The challenger here on DUEE is a proponent of ethanol and insists that I support my assertions regarding the falsity of claims he has made that Google's plan to move away from a carbon based energy infrastructure gives evidence that PHEVs are not the technology we should be focusing on in the personal transportation sector.

The argument as stated goes like this:
1) James Hansen has said that (as quoted elsewhere on DUEE) "we've got 4 years" to do something about global warming.

2) There is a "need to get some appreciable reductions going within, at most, the next ten years."

3) According to the argument's proponent Google says "PHEG (sic) usse (sic) they estimate about a 24% reduction in gasoline consumption in 20 years."

4) Again, according to the argument's proponent Google says "GHG emissions will be proportional, probably about 20% due to Coal and Nat gas mix for power plants."

5) Therefore there will not be enough "PHEGs" (sic) on the road rapidly enough.

6) Therefore we should target our scarce incentive funding towards ethanol in order to realize the most desirable GHG reductions in the personal transportation sector.


I think I have that right, but the details of the argument change a great deal from moment to moment depending on what study is being misquoted or what information is being taken out of context. If I've misrepresented any positions in items 1-6 I would preemptively lay the blame on the general incoherence of the proponent's manner of discussion.

Item 1) Hansen has said this, it is true. However what Hansen is referring to is the window of opportunity offered by the Obama administration and the need for enacting legislation that will comprehensively address the issue of carbon based energy use. Hansen is not saying that the main element by which technologies should be judged is how quickly we can start displacing fossil fuels. If that were the case, we could easily justify cutting down all of our forests for use as combustible biomass since as most coal plants could also burn wood, that would allow us to immediately shut down the coal plants. Of course that is a silly argument, but it is an accurate parallel to the use of ethanol as an alternative to petroleum. Associated concerns dictate that such a commitment to biomass would be a disaster in its own right and that the approach would ultimately fail to provide a long term solution to our carbon related problems.
The Hansen statement as used in the argument is intended to convey an alternative meaning supporting the notion that short term urgency regarding efficacy is the prime determinant in selecting the next personal transportation technology; and as such, it is totally false.

Item 2) This popped up after it was earlier pointed out to the ethanol proponent that Hansen's intent was not as portrayed by the appeal to urgency created when selectively quoting the 4 year remark by Hansen. I have no idea of the basis of the claim nor the standards by which "appreciable reductions" might be judged. Like item 1) this is intended to convey the statement that short term urgency regarding efficacy is the prime determinant in selecting the next personal transportation technology and as such, it too is totally false.

Items 3) and 4) are mangled kernels of truth around which the larger falsehood is built. While the specific numbers are not included in the Google plan, the fuel reduction projection is generally in line with figures that could be derived from larger aggregate numbers. However, as noted by the challenger, the attempt to derive the GHG emissions reductions that are attributable to PHEVs is complicated by the energy mix; and I maintain is therefore unlikely to be accurate. Since the plan calls for a 95% reduction in baseline GHG emissions from the electric grid by 2030, the "proportional" number of 20% is almost certainly nothing more than wild guess.

Item 5) Of course this is a return to the theme of urgency being the main determinant for evaluations of the relevant transportation technologies. In a perfect world we would recognize the issue of climate change and its relationship to the vast array of other problems associated with fossil fuels and we would aggressively pursue all available options to transition from carbon as rapidly as we physically could. Unfortunately that isn't an option and every dollar spent on encouraging deployment of an emerging technology in one area takes money away from attempts to deploy technology in another area.
To date, efforts to address carbon based energy problems have been largely ineffective by design; with support going to programs that have little hope of actually being a meaningful contributor to a real solution. Much more important was the political forces that these technologies were able to muster. Since farming is such a backbone industry the green political bone thrown to climate focused Democrats by the Reagan legacy had a nuclear marrow surrounded by the shell of ethanol subsidies. Both of these technologies can be defended when arguments are narrowly crafted to highlight their strong points, but contemporary, *comprehensive* analysis of the totality of their functional characteristics shows that in comparison to other available technologies they are very poor choices.
Item 5 is the insidious lie in the 1-6 argument presented above as it is the attempt to narrowly define the criteria by which lay people judge the potential of the options. It is the lie of omission that is guarded against in court by the pledge to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

Item 6) The Google plan repeatedly makes clear that they believe the best alternative to fossil fuels in the personal transportation sector is the Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. The entire effort described is one that is focused on the success of moving from internal combustion to battery electric. The proponent of ethanol presents data from a single point in the trajectory of this transition as evidence that we are not able to meet the false test of urgency that was dishonestly constructed.


So what does the data actually show?

The prediction made is that:
2010 will see about 100,000 sales of PHEV vehicles for a 0.7% share of the new vehicle market;
2020 delivers annual sales of 3,500,000 vehicles for a 20% market share with 4.4% of the total fleet now electric;
2030 total electric percentage of our fleet is now 41%, and 9 out of every 10 light vehicles sold are PHEVs/EVs.

By 2030, Google's energy analyst predicts that 9 out of every 10 vehicles sold are either Plug-in Hybrids or full electric vehicles. Don't forget, the planned electric grid now uses 88% less fossil fuels and generates 95% fewer GHG emissions than baseline EIA estimates.

Another salient set of facts (from the same table 1 of the plan) is the overll MPG rating of the fleet versus the average MPG rating of of the new conventional vehicles:

.......overall...new conventional...PHEV % of fleet
2010: 20.7 ...... 23.0 .......... 00.7%
2020: 27.0 ...... 34.0 .......... 04.4%
2030: 51.3 ...... 45.0 .......... 41.0%

Notice the effect on overall fleet efficiency as penetration of PHEVs rises. The paper also looks at the longevity of vehicles within the fleet (vehicle survival function Fig. 6). The average age of a vehicle is shown to be 8 years with total of 50% of new vehicles being retired within 15 years. The study is predicated on a price of $3.00 per gallon and doesn't take into account the effects of fuel prices beyond 2030. I believe that is extremely conservative.

What the data shows is that the more rapidly conventional vehicles are replaced by battery electric drive vehicles, the greater the overall benefit in the transportation sector. With 2030 market share at 90% PHEV technology is just reaching its full potential and the pace of change is as fast as is practically possible and the per unit benefits are the greatest possible. This is the type of strategy that Hansen is calling on Obama to implement within 4 years. This is they type of strategy that MUST be pursued if we are going to alter the trajectory of the massive CO2 juggernaut that is our dependence on fossil fuels.

If we look outside the Google plan, there is abundant evidence that there is little to no benefit gained from investing scarce public funds for further support of current generation biofuels in the transportation sector. Narrowly crafted arguments can be made supporting such investment, but, as evidenced by it's non-presence in the Google plan those arguments are not persuasive to analysts tasked with evaluating the overall contributions of the competing technologies. Here is the beginning statement of the Google plan:
Summary
Right now we have a real opportunity to transform our economy from one running on fossil fuels to one largely based on clean energy. Technologies and know-how to accomplish this are either available today or are under development. We can build whole new industries and create millions of new jobs. We can cut energy costs, both at the gas pump and at home. We can improve our national security. And we can put a big dent in climate change. With strong leadership we could be moving forward on an aggressive but realistic time-line and an approach that offsets costs with real economic gains.

The energy team at Google has been analyzing how we could greatly reduce fossil fuel use by 2030. Our proposal - "Clean Energy 2030" - provides a potential path to weaning the U.S. off of coal and oil for electricity generation by 2030 (with some remaining use of natural gas as well as nuclear), and cutting oil use for cars by 44%.

President-elect Obama announced his New Energy for America plan this past summer that is similar to ours in several ways, including a strong emphasis on efficiency, renewable electricity and plug-in vehicles. Similarly, the Natural Resources Defense Council, McKinsey and Company, and the Electric Power Research Institute have issued proposals that share all of these same elements. Al Gore has issued a challenge that is even more ambitious - getting us to carbon-free electricity by 2020 - and we hope the American public pushes our leaders to embrace it. T. Boone Pickens has weighed in with an interesting plan of his own to massively deploy wind energy, among other things. Other plans have also been developed in recent years that merit attention.

Google's proposal will benefit the US by increasing energy security, protecting the environment, creating new jobs, and helping to create the conditions for long-term prosperity. Some of the necessary funds will be public, but much of it will come from the private sector -- a typical approach for infrastructure and high technology investments.

Our goal in presenting this first iteration of the Clean Energy 2030 proposal is to stimulate debate and we invite you to take a look and comment - or offer an alternative approach if you disagree. With a new Administration and Congress - and multiple energy-related imperatives - this is an opportune, perhaps unprecedented, moment to move from plan to action.


In closing I offer another example of such an evaluation:

http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/EE/article.asp?doi=b809990c

Energy Environ. Sci., 2009, 2, 148 - 173, DOI: 10.1039/b809990c
Review of solutions to global warming, air pollution, and energy security

Mark Z. Jacobson

This paper reviews and ranks major proposed energy-related solutions to global warming, air pollution mortality, and energy security while considering other impacts of the proposed solutions, such as on water supply, land use, wildlife, resource availability, thermal pollution, water chemical pollution, nuclear proliferation, and undernutrition.

Nine electric power sources and two liquid fuel options are considered. The electricity sources include solar-photovoltaics (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP), wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, wave, tidal, nuclear, and coal with carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology. The liquid fuel options include corn-ethanol (E85) and cellulosic-E85. To place the electric and liquid fuel sources on an equal footing, we examine their comparative abilities to address the problems mentioned by powering new-technology vehicles, including battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (HFCVs), and flex-fuel vehicles run on E85.

Twelve combinations of energy source-vehicle type are considered. Upon ranking and weighting each combination with respect to each of 11 impact categories, four clear divisions of ranking, or tiers, emerge.

Tier 1 (highest-ranked) includes wind-BEVs and wind-HFCVs.
Tier 2 includes CSP-BEVs, geothermal-BEVs, PV-BEVs, tidal-BEVs, and wave-BEVs.
Tier 3 includes hydro-BEVs, nuclear-BEVs, and CCS-BEVs.
Tier 4 includes corn- and cellulosic-E85.

Wind-BEVs ranked first in seven out of 11 categories, including the two most important, mortality and climate damage reduction. Although HFCVs are much less efficient than BEVs, wind-HFCVs are still very clean and were ranked second among all combinations.

Tier 2 options provide significant benefits and are recommended.

Tier 3 options are less desirable. However, hydroelectricity, which was ranked ahead of coal-CCS and nuclear with respect to climate and health, is an excellent load balancer, thus recommended.

The Tier 4 combinations (cellulosic- and corn-E85) were ranked lowest overall and with respect to climate, air pollution, land use, wildlife damage, and chemical waste. Cellulosic-E85 ranked lower than corn-E85 overall, primarily due to its potentially larger land footprint based on new data and its higher upstream air pollution emissions than corn-E85.

Whereas cellulosic-E85 may cause the greatest average human mortality, nuclear-BEVs cause the greatest upper-limit mortality risk due to the expansion of plutonium separation and uranium enrichment in nuclear energy facilities worldwide. Wind-BEVs and CSP-BEVs cause the least mortality.

The footprint area of wind-BEVs is 2–6 orders of magnitude less than that of any other option. Because of their low footprint and pollution, wind-BEVs cause the least wildlife loss.

The largest consumer of water is corn-E85. The smallest are wind-, tidal-, and wave-BEVs.

The US could theoretically replace all 2007 onroad vehicles with BEVs powered by 73000–144000 5 MW wind turbines, less than the 300000 airplanes the US produced during World War II, reducing US CO2 by 32.5–32.7% and nearly eliminating 15000/yr vehicle-related air pollution deaths in 2020.

In sum, use of wind, CSP, geothermal, tidal, PV, wave, and hydro to provide electricity for BEVs and HFCVs and, by extension, electricity for the residential, industrial, and commercial sectors, will result in the most benefit among the options considered. The combination of these technologies should be advanced as a solution to global warming, air pollution, and energy security. Coal-CCS and nuclear offer less benefit thus represent an opportunity cost loss, and the biofuel options provide no certain benefit and the greatest negative impacts.


Link to Greenblat's Google plan: http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/15x31uzlqeo5n/1#Personal_Vehicle_Sector
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. You know, I wonder how many here will take the time to wade through all that?
I'm interested, but I didn't.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Some things can't be condensed into sound bites.
I don't normally go into such detail precisely because it really isn't suited to this audience. However, since the other party repeatedly *insisted* on a detailed answer, I decided to oblige.

If you are interested the way some people practice spreading misinformation it is worth the read, otherwise, I'd recommend just clicking on the link at the end and taking a gander at the google plan for yourself. My original response to the ethanol proponent was just to post the link with a brief comment.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think it may be worthwhile to review the "MIT Plan" (If I may call it that.)
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 09:14 AM by OKIsItJustMe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=203474&mesg_id=203474


Slashing transportation fuel use and GHG emissions by 2035 will require immediate action on several challenging fronts. The following steps are key.

For the near term (up to 15 years), we should increase our efforts to improve light-duty vehicle engines and transmissions, but all improvements must go towards increasing fuel efficiency rather than making cars bigger and faster. Also critical is reducing vehicle weight and size.

For the mid and long term (15-30 years, and more than 30 years), we should ramp up work on radically different technologies such as plug-in hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

We must also develop and market more environmentally benign fuels based on non-petroleum sources. For example, research on biofuels should continue. The US emphasis on corn-based ethanol is not obviously justifiable, but biofuels based on other feedstocks and conversion technologies should be pursued. In general, the use of biofuels will grow but not as fast as expected just a few years ago.



"Transitioning from our current situation onto a path with declining fuel consumption and emissions, even in the developed world, will take several decades—much longer than we had hoped or realized," said Heywood. "We've got to start now."

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Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Let's see if I've got this
I'm still wading through the chain of negations of negations in the premise.

Looks like:
- Challenger is pro ethanol and against electric vehicles
- Challenger cites Google plan, claiming it's a mark against pro-EV policy
- You dispute his claim

Okay...
- Ethanol is a dead-end. I'd agree with that -- it belongs in a bottle, not in the tank. So far so good.
- Electric vehicles need to happen. Second that. They will offer some incremental improvement, but modest expectations are in order.
- Google has a thorough and comprehensive GHG reduction plan. Got that far.

But, frankly, I ran out of popcorn before I could get your point. Is it defending Google, advocating PHEVs, deconstructing ethanol, some combination, or did I miss it entirely?

As to sound bites, I don't know. I will say, though, that you've got your scholarly kind of writing on one hand, and your journalistic kind on the other, the latter making use of the famous "pyramid style," where you put all of the major "so what" in the first paragraph. You've obviously done a lot of commendable scholarship here, but it took me quite a while to get to the "so what" -- if indeed I ever got to it.


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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Don't feed it.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. You are to lucid exposition what Jackson Pollock was to Realism
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 07:36 PM by JohnWxy
/

/


You did some nice cutting and pasting but You are avoiding the simple questions put to you here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=203017&mesg_id=203841



How many PHEVs and pure electrics does the Google proposal project to be on the road in the 'target' year?

(I had previously stated: "the final year of the projection in the Google proposal (let's call that the 'target' year..")

How many gallons of gasoline are the PHEGs projected to consume in the 'target' year of the Google proposal?


Looking at Fig. 5 "US Vehicle Fuel Consumption", what is the "Savings from Plug-in hybrid vehicles" and "savings from electric vehicles" (either as a percentage or absolute gallons) shown in the 'target' year of the google proposal?

The "Savings from Plug-in hybrid vehicles" and "savings from electric vehicles" as indicated on the chart at Fig 5. is Fuel consumption for PHEGs compared to BAseline demand. What does Baseline demand represent?


Now I pasted the two charts into this comment so there will be no doubt what "Figure 4" and "Fig 5" are in Greenblatt's proposal. These charts reveal the data you need to back-up your contention that what I said http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=203017&mesg_id=203337">here was wrong:


"According to Google's investigation into PHEV use they estimate about a 24% reduction in gasoline consumption in 20 years"
..due solely to plug-in hybrid and pure electric car use. "GHG emissions reduction will be proportional, probably about 20% due to Coal and Nat gas mix for power plants." by that I meant after you add in the impact of GHG emissions from Power plants to recharge the Hybrids and ELectrics the Net GHG reduction get's pretty close to 20%.

.... and which you called a "transparent manipulation of the truth".

By your statement you asserted that you KNEW what I said was not accurate. So you should have been able to prove that at the time you made that statement.

Instead, here, you have provided a rambling, meandering soliloquy to plug-in hybrids ...without ever addressing those simple straitforward questions. Either you are unable to extract these data from the charts above, and do a little division to prove me wrong, or you know my statement was NOT a distortion of the results presented from Greenblatt's projections but can't admit it.

I made my statement, by the way, after doing the calculations myself - several times. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said it.

I had not given the claims of savings for Plug-ins much close scrutiny until relatively recently because good data from actual plug-in performance was not available and I knew that savings in 20 years, even if quite substantial, weren't going to matter if we didn't do something more (than we currently are) much much sooner.

Now, since you haven't answered the questions which would enable you to compute the savings in 20 years due to use of plug-in hybrids and pure electrics, I'm not going to waste anymore damn time on you. The only reason I bothered with this post was to stick the charts in front of you and others, so maybe somebody would see my what I did.

THe reader will note: I am not against hybrids - plug-in or otherwise. I am FOR any technique or technology that will help us deal with Global Warming. Closing your eyes to reality is not a practical way to approach any problem. (I guess that's one measure of being a grown-up.) I will post my detailed results of reviewing the Greenblatt proposal (which I stated in very abbreviated form, already), but I really am in no hurry ... Hell, I've got 20 years to let people know what Greenblatt's projections show. (....I'm kindof distracted right now, with the Health care reform battle).



on edit.. btw A 95% reduction in GHG emissions by the complete elimination of coal powered electricity generation (from the Greenblatt proposal) is QUITE a projection and one which, though I fervently wish it could happen, takes I believe, a real stretch in credulity to believe possible( in 20 yrs).

and in the interest of NOT "manipulating the truth" the 95% projected reduction in GHG emissions (for the electric power sector) should not be compared to the 20% net GHG emissions reduction I mentioned for the Transportation Sector projection in Greenblatt's work. Two entirely different (though certainly related) things.

and further, from Greenblatt's proposal: "Personal vehicle sector CO2 emissions
(reduction) by 44%" .. this is the total GHg emissions reduction from both introduction of hybrids and electrics AND efficiency improvements to ICE engines. So, rather obviously, the reduction due solely to hybrids and electrics will be something less than that figure.














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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. "
"The Google Plan" was based on analysis done by and was written by Jeff Greenblat, Google's point man on energy. The challenger here on DUEE is a proponent of ethanol and insists that I support my assertions regarding the falsity of claims he has made that Google's plan to move away from a carbon based energy infrastructure gives evidence that PHEVs are not the technology we should be focusing on in the personal transportation sector.

The argument as stated goes like this:
1) James Hansen has said that (as quoted elsewhere on DUEE) "we've got 4 years" to do something about global warming.

2) There is a "need to get some appreciable reductions going within, at most, the next ten years."

3) According to the argument's proponent Google says "PHEG (sic) usse (sic) they estimate about a 24% reduction in gasoline consumption in 20 years."

4) Again, according to the argument's proponent Google says "GHG emissions will be proportional, probably about 20% due to Coal and Nat gas mix for power plants."

5) Therefore there will not be enough "PHEGs" (sic) on the road rapidly enough.

6) Therefore we should target our scarce incentive funding towards ethanol in order to realize the most desirable GHG reductions in the personal transportation sector.


I think I have that right, but the details of the argument change a great deal from moment to moment depending on what study is being misquoted or what information is being taken out of context. If I've misrepresented any positions in items 1-6 I would preemptively lay the blame on the general incoherence of the proponent's manner of discussion.

Item 1) Hansen has said this, it is true. However what Hansen is referring to is the window of opportunity offered by the Obama administration and the need for enacting legislation that will comprehensively address the issue of carbon based energy use. Hansen is not saying that the main element by which technologies should be judged is how quickly we can start displacing fossil fuels. If that were the case, we could easily justify cutting down all of our forests for use as combustible biomass since as most coal plants could also burn wood, that would allow us to immediately shut down the coal plants. Of course that is a silly argument, but it is an accurate parallel to the use of ethanol as an alternative to petroleum. Associated concerns dictate that such a commitment to biomass would be a disaster in its own right and that the approach would ultimately fail to provide a long term solution to our carbon related problems.
The Hansen statement as used in the argument is intended to convey an alternative meaning supporting the notion that short term urgency regarding efficacy is the prime determinant in selecting the next personal transportation technology; and as such, it is totally false.

Item 2) This popped up after it was earlier pointed out to the ethanol proponent that Hansen's intent was not as portrayed by the appeal to urgency created when selectively quoting the 4 year remark by Hansen. I have no idea of the basis of the claim nor the standards by which "appreciable reductions" might be judged. Like item 1) this is intended to convey the statement that short term urgency regarding efficacy is the prime determinant in selecting the next personal transportation technology and as such, it too is totally false.

Items 3) and 4) are mangled kernels of truth around which the larger falsehood is built. While the specific numbers are not included in the Google plan, the fuel reduction projection is generally in line with figures that could be derived from larger aggregate numbers. However, as noted by the challenger, the attempt to derive the GHG emissions reductions that are attributable to PHEVs is complicated by the energy mix; and I maintain is therefore unlikely to be accurate. Since the plan calls for a 95% reduction in baseline GHG emissions from the electric grid by 2030, the "proportional" number of 20% is almost certainly nothing more than wild guess.

Item 5) Of course this is a return to the theme of urgency being the main determinant for evaluations of the relevant transportation technologies. In a perfect world we would recognize the issue of climate change and its relationship to the vast array of other problems associated with fossil fuels and we would aggressively pursue all available options to transition from carbon as rapidly as we physically could. Unfortunately that isn't an option and every dollar spent on encouraging deployment of an emerging technology in one area takes money away from attempts to deploy technology in another area.
To date, efforts to address carbon based energy problems have been largely ineffective by design; with support going to programs that have little hope of actually being a meaningful contributor to a real solution. Much more important was the political forces that these technologies were able to muster. Since farming is such a backbone industry the green political bone thrown to climate focused Democrats by the Reagan legacy had a nuclear marrow surrounded by the shell of ethanol subsidies. Both of these technologies can be defended when arguments are narrowly crafted to highlight their strong points, but contemporary, *comprehensive* analysis of the totality of their functional characteristics shows that in comparison to other available technologies they are very poor choices.
Item 5 is the insidious lie in the 1-6 argument presented above as it is the attempt to narrowly define the criteria by which lay people judge the potential of the options. It is the lie of omission that is guarded against in court by the pledge to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

Item 6) The Google plan repeatedly makes clear that they believe the best alternative to fossil fuels in the personal transportation sector is the Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. The entire effort described is one that is focused on the success of moving from internal combustion to battery electric. The proponent of ethanol presents data from a single point in the trajectory of this transition as evidence that we are not able to meet the false test of urgency that was dishonestly constructed.


So what does the data actually show?

The prediction made is that:
2010 will see about 100,000 sales of PHEV vehicles for a 0.7% share of the new vehicle market;
2020 delivers annual sales of 3,500,000 vehicles for a 20% market share with 4.4% of the total fleet now electric;
2030 total electric percentage of our fleet is now 41%, and 9 out of every 10 light vehicles sold are PHEVs/EVs.

By 2030, Google's energy analyst predicts that 9 out of every 10 vehicles sold are either Plug-in Hybrids or full electric vehicles. Don't forget, the planned electric grid now uses 88% less fossil fuels and generates 95% fewer GHG emissions than baseline EIA estimates.

Another salient set of facts (from the same table 1 of the plan) is the overll MPG rating of the fleet versus the average MPG rating of of the new conventional vehicles:

.......overall...new conventional...PHEV % of fleet
2010: 20.7 ...... 23.0 .......... 00.7%
2020: 27.0 ...... 34.0 .......... 04.4%
2030: 51.3 ...... 45.0 .......... 41.0%

Notice the effect on overall fleet efficiency as penetration of PHEVs rises. The paper also looks at the longevity of vehicles within the fleet (vehicle survival function Fig. 6). The average age of a vehicle is shown to be 8 years with total of 50% of new vehicles being retired within 15 years. The study is predicated on a price of $3.00 per gallon and doesn't take into account the effects of fuel prices beyond 2030. I believe that is extremely conservative.

What the data shows is that the more rapidly conventional vehicles are replaced by battery electric drive vehicles, the greater the overall benefit in the transportation sector. With 2030 market share at 90% PHEV technology is just reaching its full potential and the pace of change is as fast as is practically possible and the per unit benefits are the greatest possible. This is the type of strategy that Hansen is calling on Obama to implement within 4 years. This is they type of strategy that MUST be pursued if we are going to alter the trajectory of the massive CO2 juggernaut that is our dependence on fossil fuels.

If we look outside the Google plan, there is abundant evidence that there is little to no benefit gained from investing scarce public funds for further support of current generation biofuels in the transportation sector. Narrowly crafted arguments can be made supporting such investment, but, as evidenced by it's non-presence in the Google plan those arguments are not persuasive to analysts tasked with evaluating the overall contributions of the competing technologies. Here is the beginning statement of the Google plan:
Summary
Right now we have a real opportunity to transform our economy from one running on fossil fuels to one largely based on clean energy. Technologies and know-how to accomplish this are either available today or are under development. We can build whole new industries and create millions of new jobs. We can cut energy costs, both at the gas pump and at home. We can improve our national security. And we can put a big dent in climate change. With strong leadership we could be moving forward on an aggressive but realistic time-line and an approach that offsets costs with real economic gains.

The energy team at Google has been analyzing how we could greatly reduce fossil fuel use by 2030. Our proposal - "Clean Energy 2030" - provides a potential path to weaning the U.S. off of coal and oil for electricity generation by 2030 (with some remaining use of natural gas as well as nuclear), and cutting oil use for cars by 44%.

President-elect Obama announced his New Energy for America plan this past summer that is similar to ours in several ways, including a strong emphasis on efficiency, renewable electricity and plug-in vehicles. Similarly, the Natural Resources Defense Council, McKinsey and Company, and the Electric Power Research Institute have issued proposals that share all of these same elements. Al Gore has issued a challenge that is even more ambitious - getting us to carbon-free electricity by 2020 - and we hope the American public pushes our leaders to embrace it. T. Boone Pickens has weighed in with an interesting plan of his own to massively deploy wind energy, among other things. Other plans have also been developed in recent years that merit attention.

Google's proposal will benefit the US by increasing energy security, protecting the environment, creating new jobs, and helping to create the conditions for long-term prosperity. Some of the necessary funds will be public, but much of it will come from the private sector -- a typical approach for infrastructure and high technology investments.

Our goal in presenting this first iteration of the Clean Energy 2030 proposal is to stimulate debate and we invite you to take a look and comment - or offer an alternative approach if you disagree. With a new Administration and Congress - and multiple energy-related imperatives - this is an opportune, perhaps unprecedented, moment to move from plan to action.


In closing I offer another example of such an evaluation:

http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/EE/article.asp?doi=b809990c

Energy Environ. Sci., 2009, 2, 148 - 173, DOI: 10.1039/b809990c
Review of solutions to global warming, air pollution, and energy security

Mark Z. Jacobson

This paper reviews and ranks major proposed energy-related solutions to global warming, air pollution mortality, and energy security while considering other impacts of the proposed solutions, such as on water supply, land use, wildlife, resource availability, thermal pollution, water chemical pollution, nuclear proliferation, and undernutrition.

Nine electric power sources and two liquid fuel options are considered. The electricity sources include solar-photovoltaics (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP), wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, wave, tidal, nuclear, and coal with carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology. The liquid fuel options include corn-ethanol (E85) and cellulosic-E85. To place the electric and liquid fuel sources on an equal footing, we examine their comparative abilities to address the problems mentioned by powering new-technology vehicles, including battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (HFCVs), and flex-fuel vehicles run on E85.

Twelve combinations of energy source-vehicle type are considered. Upon ranking and weighting each combination with respect to each of 11 impact categories, four clear divisions of ranking, or tiers, emerge.

Tier 1 (highest-ranked) includes wind-BEVs and wind-HFCVs.
Tier 2 includes CSP-BEVs, geothermal-BEVs, PV-BEVs, tidal-BEVs, and wave-BEVs.
Tier 3 includes hydro-BEVs, nuclear-BEVs, and CCS-BEVs.
Tier 4 includes corn- and cellulosic-E85.

Wind-BEVs ranked first in seven out of 11 categories, including the two most important, mortality and climate damage reduction. Although HFCVs are much less efficient than BEVs, wind-HFCVs are still very clean and were ranked second among all combinations.

Tier 2 options provide significant benefits and are recommended.

Tier 3 options are less desirable. However, hydroelectricity, which was ranked ahead of coal-CCS and nuclear with respect to climate and health, is an excellent load balancer, thus recommended.

The Tier 4 combinations (cellulosic- and corn-E85) were ranked lowest overall and with respect to climate, air pollution, land use, wildlife damage, and chemical waste. Cellulosic-E85 ranked lower than corn-E85 overall, primarily due to its potentially larger land footprint based on new data and its higher upstream air pollution emissions than corn-E85.

Whereas cellulosic-E85 may cause the greatest average human mortality, nuclear-BEVs cause the greatest upper-limit mortality risk due to the expansion of plutonium separation and uranium enrichment in nuclear energy facilities worldwide. Wind-BEVs and CSP-BEVs cause the least mortality.

The footprint area of wind-BEVs is 2–6 orders of magnitude less than that of any other option. Because of their low footprint and pollution, wind-BEVs cause the least wildlife loss.

The largest consumer of water is corn-E85. The smallest are wind-, tidal-, and wave-BEVs.

The US could theoretically replace all 2007 onroad vehicles with BEVs powered by 73000–144000 5 MW wind turbines, less than the 300000 airplanes the US produced during World War II, reducing US CO2 by 32.5–32.7% and nearly eliminating 15000/yr vehicle-related air pollution deaths in 2020.

In sum, use of wind, CSP, geothermal, tidal, PV, wave, and hydro to provide electricity for BEVs and HFCVs and, by extension, electricity for the residential, industrial, and commercial sectors, will result in the most benefit among the options considered. The combination of these technologies should be advanced as a solution to global warming, air pollution, and energy security. Coal-CCS and nuclear offer less benefit thus represent an opportunity cost loss, and the biofuel options provide no certain benefit and the greatest negative impacts.


Link to Greenblat's Google plan: http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/15x31uzlqeo5n/1#Personal_Vehicle_Sector
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Neither you, nor McKinsey or any other member of the self referential anti-nuke cults
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 09:30 PM by NNadir
can produce even ONE example, NOT ONE, example of a single death from

the greatest upper-limit mortality risk due to the expansion of plutonium separation and uranium enrichment in nuclear energy facilities worldwide


Glenn Seaborg, winner of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry - the only person ever to have had an element in the periodic table named for him while he was still alive - invented the PUREX process in the late 1940s and 1950's, which is - if you can count - is something like 60 years ago.

It's been industrial for more than 30 years.

Stupid anti-nuke kiddies with selective attention weren't even born when the process was industrialized.

So, kiddie, where are you and the equally dumb economists who know zero physical science coming up with these "greatest mortality risk" estimates.

In a Harry Potter Movie? By magic?

Belgium, Switzerland, France and Japan all use plutonium in their reactors. Where are all these imaginary deaths you keep talking about.

I note, with due contempt, that there is NOT ONE "renewables will save us" advocate who can do a simple ratio, like deaths per exajoule.

Wind power, the object of a bunch of fundies who never saw a landscape they couldn't strew with gear oil, has killed http://www.wind-works.org/articles/DeathsDatabase.xls">um, lots of people even though it is a trivial form of energy that has not produced even one exajoule of the 500 exajoules humanity now consumes.

NOT ONE.

One tires of your "records" kiddie, since "records" involve, um, measurement.

Nuclear power has been producing more than 25 exajoules of human energy demand for, um, decades, kiddie.

The "record" involves not some kiddie fantasy but something called, um, data:


http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/table27.xls

So, kiddie, where's all this mortality you're talking about?

In the seventh Harry Potter Movie, part I or is it just in some soothsaying dream you had, like the one where solar energy is going to displace the dangerous fossil fuels you couldn't care less about:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/page/renew_energy_consump/table1.html

If you don't know what you're talking about, make stuff up.
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