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Report: Meaningful Numbers of Plug-In Hybrids Are Decades Away

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:58 PM
Original message
Report: Meaningful Numbers of Plug-In Hybrids Are Decades Away
Report: Meaningful Numbers of Plug-In Hybrids Are Decades Away

The mass-introduction of the plug-in hybrid electric car is still a few decades away, according to new analysis by the National Research Council.

The study, released on Monday, also found that the next generation of plug-in hybrids could require hundreds of billions of dollars in government subsidies to take off.

Even then, plug-in hybrids would not have a significant impact on the nation’s oil consumption or carbon emissions before 2030. Savings in oil imports would also be modest, according to the report, which was financed with the help of the Energy Department.

The report found that plug-in electric cars could number 40 million by 2030 — provided that rapid progress is made in battery technology and that the government provided hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies and incentives. However, the study suggested that a “more realistic” scenario is closer to 13 million cars. That would represent 4 percent of the estimated 300 million cars that would be on the road by then.

Happy motoring!
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. The biggest savings
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 08:12 PM by TxRider
We can make quickly is moving from gasoline to diesel as small clean modern turbo diesels can achieve 50mpg, and biodiesel is about the best alternative fuel going presently. Which is why in Europe with much higher fuel costs diesels are at about 50% of the vehicles on the road now.

And lowering the speed limits back down to 55mph for another 15% or so better mileage as air drag rises at the square of speed, and requires more fuel per mph the faster you go once you pass about 45mph.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yup, happy motoring
This is a hit piece and nothing more. 'Meaningful numbers' are no where to be found here

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well, you could download the PDF of the full report
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 08:31 PM by GliderGuider
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=12826 for only $30.00, and decide if the piece reflected the findings accurately.

However, the article quoted in the OP is based on the accompanying news release available here: http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=12826
Here is the full text of the press release:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Plug-In Hybrid Vehicle Costs Likely to Remain High, Benefits Modest for Decades

WASHINGTON -- Costs of plug-in hybrid electric cars are high -- largely due to their lithium-ion batteries -- and unlikely to drastically decrease in the near future, says a new report from the National Research Council. Costs to manufacture plug-in hybrid electric vehicles in 2010 are estimated to be as much as $18,000 more than for an equivalent conventional vehicle. Although a mile driven on electricity is cheaper than one driven on gasoline, it will likely take several decades before the upfront costs decline enough to be offset by lifetime fuel savings. Subsidies in the tens to hundreds of billions of dollars over that period will be needed if plug-ins are to achieve rapid penetration of the U.S. automotive market. Even with these efforts, plug-in hybrid electric vehicles are not expected to significantly impact oil consumption or carbon emissions before 2030.

The report looks at plug-in hybrid electric vehicles that can operate on electricity for 10 or 40 miles. The PHEV-10 is similar to the Toyota Prius but with a larger battery. The PHEV-40 is similar to the Chevrolet Volt; it has a larger motor and a much larger battery than the PHEV-10. The lithium-ion battery technology used to run these vehicles is the key determinant of their cost and range on electric power. Battery technology has been developing rapidly, but steep declines in cost do not appear likely over the next couple of decades because lithium-ion batteries are already produced in large quantities for cell phones and laptop computers. In the first generation of production, the PHEV-10 battery pack is estimated to cost about $3,300, and the PHEV-40 battery pack about $14,000. While these costs will come down, a fundamental breakthrough in battery technology, unforeseen at present, would be needed to make plug-ins widely affordable in the near future.

According to the committee that wrote the report, the maximum number of plug-in electric vehicles that could be on the road by 2030 is 40 million, assuming rapid technological progress in the field, increased government support, and consumer acceptance of these vehicles. However, factors such as high cost, limited availability of places to plug in, and market competition suggest that 13 million is a more realistic number, the report says. Even this more modest estimate assumes that current levels of government support will continue for several decades.

Most of the electricity used to power these cars will be supplied from the nation's power grid. If charged at night when the demand for electricity is lowest, the grid would be able to handle the additional demand for millions of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, the report says. However, if drivers charge their vehicles at times of high demand, such as when they get home from work, the additional load could be difficult to meet unless new capacity is added. Smart meters, which bill customers based on time of use, may be necessary in order to encourage nighttime charging. In addition, some homes would require electrical system upgrades to charge their vehicle, which could cost more than $1,000.

Relative to hybrid vehicles, plug-in hybrid electric vehicles will have little impact on U.S. oil consumption before 2030, especially if fuel economy for conventional vehicles and hybrids continues to increase past 2020. PHEV-10s save only about 20 percent of the gasoline an equivalent hybrid vehicle would use, the report says. If 40 million PHEV-10s are operating in 2030, they would save about 0.2 million barrels of oil per day relative to less expensive hybrids, approximately 2 percent of current U.S. daily light-duty vehicle oil consumption. More substantial savings could be seen by 2050. PHEV-40s, which consume 55 percent less gasoline than hybrids, could have a greater impact on oil consumption.

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles emit less carbon dioxide than equivalent conventional vehicles, but not less than hybrids after accounting for emissions at generating stations supplying their electrical power, the report says. Beyond 2030, assuming consumer acceptance, plug-in hybrid electric vehicles could account for significant reductions in U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, if electricity generation plants fired by fossil fuels were equipped with carbon capture and storage systems or replaced with renewable energy or nuclear-powered plants.

According to the report, a portfolio approach toward reducing U.S. dependence on oil is necessary for long-term success. This should include increasing the fuel efficiency of conventional vehicles and pursuing research, development, and demonstration into alternative strategies, including the use of biofuels, electric vehicles, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

This study was sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy. The National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, Institute of Medicine, and National Research Council make up the National Academies. They are private, nonprofit institutions that provide science, technology, and health policy advice under a congressional charter. The Research Council is the principal operating agency of the National Academy of Sciences and the National Academy of Engineering.
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I have to wonder
What they used for fuel cost per gallon increases into the future.

That would be the largest deciding factor in whether or not a plug in hybrid pays for the price difference in fuel savings in it's lifetime. Currently at todays prices I don't think it does.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Fortunately, you can read it on-line for free
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 09:36 PM by OKIsItJustMe
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes. The on-line reader is here
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yeah, nearly impossible to read. I thought I was going blind.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Did you note who produced the report?
"Committee on Assessment of Resource Needs for Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Technologies; National Research Council"

And you can find more details in Appendix A: Committee Biographical Information , pages 90-97
http://search.nap.edu/nap-cgi/skimchap.cgi?recid=12826&chap=90-97

There are several key statements in the press release that are highly questionable; such as, the failure to mention the larger role of plug in hybrids as an element enabling more rapid penetration of renewables on the grid and the part about no near term major advances to be expected in battery technologies.

However, I haven't read the report yet; and as I'm on dial-up, and it isn't accessible immediately for me on pdf without paying it will be a bit until I have time to read it.

This press release presents some positions that are contradicted by other sources, so I do appreciate you bringing it to our attention and will try to provide more substantial insight soon.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. The author of the paper works for ExxonMobil Research.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 07:54 AM by joshcryer
There are several ways one could take it.

1) Conspiracy against PHEVs because company being worked for is in the hydrogen business (natural gas).

2) Researching the best alternative so that ExxonMobil and others don't go broke when the oil runs out, and concluding that PHEVs are not necessarily it.

3) Simply doing his job without regard to who the paycheck comes from.

I am leaning toward the middle here (note, I realize how similar these choices are, in the end, especially 1 and 2, so please don't chastise me for the characterization).
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Meanwhile, bike shops do a brisk business
Having switched to commuting and doing most errands by bicycle, I look forward to seeing more electrics on the road and less hulking gas-burners, but I won't be a customer anyway. Its much nicer just to ride, simple, and very light on the budget.
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Besides the cell phone yakking car driver yes
Pity it's so dangerous, I've been riding motorcycles that get 40-50mpg for decades. Can't imagine trying to get to work by bicycle, on the main roads. A girl was killed on her bike outside our office just last year.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The accident rate is really pretty low
but, yeah, I know what you mean. I'm lucky to have 90% of my route on a bike trail that's pretty well maintained.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. Projected Li-ion cost is based on
"literature searches and discussions with industry experts".

Also:

"Future battery and battery pack costs are quite uncertain at this point. For that reason the committee feels it will be necessary to reevalute these costs in several years, when significant data on the first production cycle of PHEVs is available, which should allow better projections."

There's nothing prohibitively costly about the materials, so it all depends on how much we're willing to get behind it.

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