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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 11:37 AM
Original message
Global Warming skeptic proposes sliding carbon tax
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/science/15tier.html?_r=2&ref=global-home

<snip>
Specifically, he proposes tying carbon penalties to the temperature of the lowest layer of the atmosphere (called the troposphere, which extends from the surface of the earth to a height of about 10 miles). He suggests using the readings near the equator because climate models forecast pronounced warming there.

These temperature readings could be incorporated into the kind of cap-and-trade system being negotiated in Copenhagen, which is intended to impose limits on the amount of greenhouse emissions. If the atmosphere warmed, the cap would be tightened to lower greenhouse emissions; if it cooled, the cap would be loosened.

But it would be even better, Dr. McKitrick says, to use the temperature readings as the basis for a carbon tax instead of a cap-and-trade system. Like many economists and environmentalists, he argues that the carbon tax would be more effective at reducing emissions because it is simpler, more transparent, easier to enforce and less vulnerable to accounting tricks and political favoritism.

The carbon tax might start off at a rate that would raise the cost of a gallon of gasoline by a nickel — or, if there were political will, perhaps 10 or 15 cents. Those numbers are all too low to satisfy environmentalists worried about climate change.

But if the climate models are correct, Dr. McKitrick calculates, within a decade his formula would cause the tax to at least double and possibly sextuple — with further increases on the way if the atmosphere kept heating. The prospect would give immediate pause to any investors trying to decide today what kind of cars, power plants and other long-range energy projects to finance. To estimate future profits, they would need to study climate.
<snip>
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think that since he choses the equator he is quite cunning. The poles are going to get warmer.
The equator is in fact not slated to be "more pronounced." It is the poles that warming is more pronounced. Chosing the equator is just a fancy way of 1) misleading people and pretending as if it is an indicator and 2) ignoring the warming that is measurably occurring over the arctic/antarctic.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Agreed
He's cherry picking with that choice. I think the idea of tying the amount of penalty to the actual warming is interesting though. It effectively sidesteps the entire question of whether or not global warming is real.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. His claim is that the tropical troposphere is proportional to overall global warming
Edited on Sun Dec-20-09 05:59 PM by muriel_volestrangler
and that it reacts quickly, while the warming in other places can lag a bit (such as the Arctic, where the warming of the sea and the melting of the ice is a significant factor, but takes a bit of time). If it were directly proportional, it wouldn't matter if it were larger or smaller than the global mean - you'd take that into account when setting the initial monetary value (eg McKitrick suggests each tonne of carbon attracts $20 of tax per degree C rise.

The proportionality may be true; but I think he selected the tropical troposphere because he thought, in 2007 when he suggested this, that it wasn't warming as much as the models the IPCC used had suggested. He could then use this as a 'gotcha'.

McKitrick came up with this in December 2007: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1203/p09s02-coop.html , right around the time this was published: http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~douglass/papers/Published%20JOC1651.pdf

But in 2008, another paper came out that said the warming was more in line with the models after all - http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/10/tropical-tropopshere-iii/ .

It'd be interesting to know whose idea it was to bring this up again - Tierney from the NYT, or McKindrick himself. There are responses to the NYT here - Gavin Schmidt, a co-author of the 2008 paper, and blogger at RealClimate, says the tropospherical temperature is anyway too variable from year to year to give the reliable signal that McKitrick says businesses want (unless you average it over many years - in which case the problem of lagging comes back into it). And then McKitrick replies here.
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Not only that
But a straight up carbon tax is better than a trading scheme that can be manipulated IMO.

Speculators are already drooling over billions in carbon trading market.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm starting to come around to that view
I admit I was really critical at first, because Cap and Trade has clear theoretical advantages in terms of incentives and efficiency. However, the discovery of massive fraud in Europe's carbon trading markets makes me wonder if it could ever be better in the real world.
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. To me any trading scheme like that
Has too much room for abuse, and I think they are lining up for it already.

Like the next big thing now that mortgage derivative fleecing is dried up.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think it *is* comforting that he's at least giving crediblity to the temperature data.
And I think this could be a unique way to go about it, but we should chose the places on the planet that are most impacted by warming (the poles).
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