Windstalk: Wind Power Without Blades

[Nathanael]

It’s counterintuitive, but the idea that wind turbines without blades could generate as much energy per square meter as standard wind turbines is based on scientific observation.

The science behind New York design firm Atelier DNA’s “windstalks” is simple kinetic energy; the same energy found in a field of swaying prairie grass. Like many of the Land Art Generator exhibits, Atelier takes it cue directly from Nature to deliver resource-economical and highly effective but visually intriguing forms of energy and energy conservation.

Link: http://www.energyboom.com/wind/windstalk-wind-power-without-blades

[polichick]

1. Wow, that is so cool - I'm so thrilled to see the innovation in energy...

I've been waiting for this since the first Earth Day when I was a kid!!

K&R

[HopeHoops]

2. A house near me has what looks like a double-helix with connecting material.

Basically, if you take a flat piece of plastic and twist the ends in opposite directions, you get one of these. The damn thing spins like crazy in a good wind - and from any direction. I want one, but I'm just shy of the minimum lot size to put one up in our township. That blows (pun intended).

[flyingfysh]

3. would it be easier to install than a blade system?

If so, that could be a considerable point in its favor. It may also be safer for birds?

[NickB79]

4. Can they reach high enough into the sky?

We're currently building taller and taller wind turbines, partly to tap into more energetic and consistent winds.

The article states these would be 180 ft tall; is there any technical reason they can't reach 300+ ft?

[spinbaby]

5. That's really cool

And they've incorporated energy storage, which has always been a problem with wind power.

[jtuck004]

6. So now I want one. Or two. Wonder how they compare in output

to turbine designs?

Thank you for the post!

Oops - there it is

"We roughly estimate that the overall output of our project is comparable to that of a conventional wind turbine array. While a single wind turbine that is limited in height to 55 meters may produce more energy than one of our Windstalks, our Windstalks can be packed in denser arrays."

http://atelierdna.com/?p=144

[kristopher]

7. "...packed in denser arrays."

So the advantage is the ability to cluster them tighter?

I actually love the way they've created a new concept, but I have a lot of trouble thinking there is anything of substance here.

Its design doesn't afford it contact with enough wind, basically. The blades of a conventional wind turbine are sweeping a very large space and successfully capturing a significant portion of the energy in the wind crossing the swept area. They may be able to make the structures as tall as the current generation of turbines in order to tap into the higher winds at that altitude, but another significant part of the issue is hard to figure - how could they rival the swept area of the blades of a turbine? If your collector isn't touching the wind, you aren't collecting energy. The wind speed is a far more important variable than either the air density or the swept area, but the difference in potential swept area between the two technologies is nothing short of huge.


I'd think this type of collector would be more suited to ocean wave and currents where the fluid density variable rises to a level of significance that offsets the swept area.

[jtuck004]

8. At first glance that would appear to be the case, but I worked

briefly in radio tower construction (Jack of all trades, master of none, as it were...) and one of the things I learned
is that the wind resistance of the cables was of as much or more importance in the design as the tower itself. Huge
resistance, at times more than the tower - something to do with aerodynamics, never bothered to get that deep into it.

Anyway, based on that experience, I could see where a whip, packed with chambers of piezoelectric discs to generate electricity, plus the torque generator at the base, could come pretty close to the mechanical generation of a rotating vane. That they can be packed closer probably overcomes that when you get multiples.

Just as cool, imho, is the fluid storage in the huge chambers underneath that moves fluid into the upper chambers when the wind blows, running it back through electricity-generating pumps when the wind stops.

After reading of all the complaints about wind turbines out there, if this works (who know, would have to be closer, else we are just reading marketing material, in my skeptical opinion) it would be far more acceptable and downright better looking than a bunch of rotating propellers.

I wouldn't mind having a field of these behind the house at all, and I think it might be better for the birds. They even encourage people to walk through and lay on the base.

I want 6 - but I will have to figure out another storage scheme since I won't have that much space.

[kristopher]

9. That is interesting, but I'm afraid it isn't going to enable the WindStalk...

...to collect energy from wind it isn't in contact with. Just for reference did you know that the swept area of a large turbine is larger than a football field?

As for the storage, that is a tip off that it is an article dedicated more to hype than to the actual science of the technology. ANY system can be equipped with storage, it just isn't economical or necessary to have a storage unit dedicated to each device - it is, in fact, wasteful since one storage facility could serve several hundred large wind turbines.

The area where this might have the most potential, however, is the one you are excited about. The economics of large scale wind are good, but the economics of small scale wind suck big time. It is possible that an integrated system like this might work like you are hoping it will at that level; but be critical of any claims and check them out very carefully before giving away any of your money.

If you hear any more details be sure and share, ok?

[jtuck004]

11. Sure.The things are 100 feet tall, about 5 inches across at the base

and 2 inches at the tip, which gives them something over 25 sq feet each. Even with the discs and the generator at the base to capture the kinetic motion I doubt that they put out quite the power of a rotor. But they can concentrate more in an area, so perhaps that is how they made this work for the project.

The storage unit in this does serve several units - it is 2 large chambers underneath the whole field that move liquid up with pumps and what amounts to hydroelectric power production when it drains into the lower chamber.

I doubt this is really going to be available to anyone soon, but the idea putting a few of these in a yard where they could provide some power into a storage unit, maybe in combination with a solar cell, would almost certainly be more palatable to communities and neighborhoods who want to avoid the sound of that propeller going over their heads 24x7.

But I agree, we are only looking at picture, not data. ;)

I am going to try to find out more, though, and I'll let you know.

[madokie]

10. this is a perfect example as to why we need to put more money and time into alternates

rather than continue to beat this dead horse called nuclear of which much money is funneled.
I had to rec this for the forward thinking that it shows