Solar power could crash Germany's grid

[n2doc]

27 October 2010


HARNESSING the sun's energy could save the planet from climate change, an approach that Germany has readily adopted. Unfortunately, this enthusiasm for solar panels could overload the country's ageing electricity grid.

Solar power is intermittent and can arrive in huge surges when the sun comes out. These most often happen near midday rather than when demand for power is high, such as in the evenings. A small surge can be accommodated by switching off conventional power station generators, to keep the overall supply to the grid the same. But if the solar power input is too large it will exceed demand even with all the generators switched off. Stephan Köhler, head of Germany's energy agency, DENA, warned in an interview with the Berliner Zeitung on 17 October that at current rates of installation, solar capacity will soon reach those levels, and could trigger blackouts.

Subsidies have encouraged German citizens and businesses to install solar panels and sell surplus electricity to the grid at a premium. Uptake has been so rapid that solar capacity could reach 30 gigawatts, equal to the country's weekend power consumption, by the end of next year. "We need to cap installation of new panels," a spokesperson for DENA told New Scientist.

However, the German Solar Industry Federation rejects DENA's concerns, claiming that extra solar energy takes the pressure off high-voltage power lines because it tends to be generated close to where it is used. The federation adds that the grid only needs to be strengthened in some rural areas where solar supply can exceed demand.


http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20827842.800-solar-power-could-crash-germanys-grid.html

[MineralMan]

1. Storage is the answer. Solar electrical generation really, really

needs to be combined with a storage system of some kind, if it's going to become a major player. There are many ways, from pumping water to a higher elevation for use in small-scale hydroelectric systems to advanced battery/inverter systems. Unless this storage stuff is figured out, solar will end up being locked into relatively small scale projects.

[ishaneferguson]

3. Been done - very attractively

One solar entrepreneur has done that. He has a hillside home and has built as series of terraced (decorative) ponds. During daylight the water is pumped to the top pond, and in the evening the water flows down over a series of small (really small) hydro generators.

It looks like the terraced ponds seen in Tokyo (especially near the US Embassy) -->

[HughMoran]

7. That's it really

Maybe some really big capacitors are needed :evilgrin:

[Kolesar]

2. Smart grid technology

Turn loads on and off through automation. Truly doable

[petronius]

4. I don't really follow the math here - are they saying that at-home solar panels are

reaching a level where they will meet all the needs of the solar-panel owner, produce enough to satisfy all the needs of the rest of the country (turning off all other generators), and still produce enough extra to crash the grid? It seems like if the grid is that fragile and near capacity, they have problems anyway...

[kristopher]

5. This is why government sources need to be examined critically

Germany is being pulled in two directions no less than the US - generally speaking the right wants large scale thermal nuclear to replace coal and the left wants to pursue renewables and energy efficiency. Government bureaucracies everywhere can too easily become an extension of one or another political objective.

This particular forecast may be spot on and it may indicate that the pace of deployment in Germany is, in fact, too rapid for the amount of effort being put into upgrading the grid. Or, the forecast may be part of the Merkel government's efforts to address the widespread, extreme discontent that their decision to extend the lifetime of nuclear plants has caused.

That is why I always preferred to hear from qualified academics. Even if the truth is not what they want to hear, they are careful to adhere to it. The head of DENA suffers no loss of prestige or credibility if politics is found to be behind a deliberate distortion of the truth, whereas such an act would ruin an academic.

[Nederland]

8. The problem is the timing

Yes, at-home solar panels are reaching a level where they will meet all the needs of the solar-panel owner, but not at the times they need it. Solar panel output is peaking in the middle of the day when home owners are not using much electricity. It is that peak output in the middle of the day that the grid is having problems with.

[petronius]

9. Ah, I skipped over that "rather than" in the article

Interesting problem to have, but it still sounds to me like they're blaming the abundance of at-home solar for some preexisting incipient problems - a short term solution is to curtail solar installation, but the real solution is a smarter and more robust grid (one that can refuse the solar input when it's not needed). Or else solar owners just need to leave all the lights and AC on when they go off to work... :)

[Kolesar]

17. My washing machine has a timer, so I can get the load to start at midday if I wish

Extend that concept to other electricity uses.

[Nederland]

20. Precisely

And that type of smart grid is what Germany should have created before it installed so many panels.

[kristopher]

21. Is there some reason you try to disrupt renewable energy discussions?

A smart grid is not required to use a timer on a washing machine.

[Nederland]

22. Since when is agreeing with a poster disruptive? (nt)

[truedelphi]

6. yet another reason why the best and most intelligent manner of approaching solar is

This one: equip the homes, apratment buildings, offices and factories with the damn solar. Don't centralize it.

Centralizing it makes a desert out of areas needed for wildlife and bird migration.

And it is, as article points out, a really stupid idea, even in terms of technical matters.

[Nederland]

10. The OP has nothing to do with centralizing

The OP addresses the fact that Germany created a shitload of PV generation capacity before it upgraded its power grid to handle it. As a result, they may need to halt new installs until the grid can be modified.

[truedelphi]

11. And how is that not centralization!!

On the other hand, what I am suggesting -- when your home is solar, with its own wind generating turbine for back up, and you are off the grid, no public utility has to worry about a surge. Because there isn't any public utility. It is just a whole bunch of private people using their own energy sources.

[Nederland]

12. Perhaps we have a semantic confusion here

To me, centralization refers to the traditional utility arrangement of a small number of large scale power plants providing power to millions via the grid. I don't think many people would refer to the practice of having millions of individual residences with solar panels on them as "centralization", even if they are all grid tie in systems. What you are talking about, getting rid of the grid entirely, simply isn't going to happen. We will always have a grid because it is the most efficient way of providing power to large populations. Millions of individual systems is neither an energy efficient nor financially efficient way of providing power.

[truedelphi]

16. the OP just demonstrated that while we are on the way to using solar/wind and other

methods, maybe getting rid of the the grid ought to happen.

that is what I am talking about.

I live in Northern California.

Between batteries, for storage in case of being needed, wind turbine, and solar, were I in the position of spending some 40 K, I would be off the grid and never have to spend another penny on the utility bills - which for many people are around $ 90 to $ 250 in the May to mid October summer season alone (As where I live in can be 103 degrees in the shade during any of those months. But there is always wind and/or sun during that time here where I am located.)

But those in favor of keeping the status quo want me as a rate payer to continually shell out a certain amount of money, that as far as I see it, artificially inflate, each month on my bill, so the Big Utilities can keep up and running. And their decision making is terrible - witness the San Bruno Calif explosion wherein PG$& E pocketed some 5 million dollars that was taken from rate payers to provide for replacement of the very pipe they kept in operation. And now they have 100 + families suing them.

There are already these mini wind turbines that sit on top of your home, no bigger than an attic fan, and some of my more affluent neighbors have them and swear by them. And five years from now they will be even better, and five years down the line from then...

Also, I had one friend way back in late severities who had solar cells that were guaranteed to last until his great grand kids were around to use them!

[Nederland]

19. That might work for the suburban sprawl of California...

...but it doesn't work for the vast majority of humanity that lives in cities.

[Ready4Change]

13. So, let me get this straight.

Big centralized plants put out massive amounts of power in a way that grids can handle and deliver where ever its needed.

Yet those same, robust grids crumble and melt when challenged with distributed, insubstantial, weak solar generation whose puny amounts of power can't even handle residential, much less industrial needs?

[Nederland]

14. Try reading the article again

The number of solar installations in Germany has gotten so large they are not producing "puny amounts of power", they will soon produce up to 30 gigawatts. That amount of power, fluctuating in and out as solar often does, is what the grid can't handle.

[kristopher]

15. That doesn't mean solar is outstripping the grid's ability to effectively use the power.

There are a variety of demand side management solutions that present themselves as a way of dealing with a change in the overall generating profile brought on by growth in the solar sector. Most of those solutions require little to no additional infrastructure, they are artifacts of appropriately crafted economic incentives.

In addition to that the pace of introduction for new technologies** can benefit from a generating profile that is heavy in solar; for example, most vehicles are parked more than 22 hours per day.

** http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=286752

Even though two perspectives are offered in the article you seem to be accepting the perspective of the government on a day when they have particularly strong motives to attempt to divert attention towards discrediting renewable energy policies. Unless you have more detailed information that settles the issue, I'd suggest your unquestioning acceptance of the government's position is unwarranted.

Anger of German nuclear plant vote - Financial Times
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/af98359c-e2a9-11df-8a58-00144feabdc0.html

SPD's Gabriel Plans to Challenge Merkel Government's Nuclear Plan in Court
Sigmar Gabriel, leader of Germany’s main opposition Social Democratic Party, said that his party will challenge the government’s nuclear plans in court.

If the SPD returns to power at elections in 2013, “we would overturn this nonsense,” Gabriel said...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-28/spd-s-gabriel-plans-to-challenge-merkel-government-s-nuclear-plan-in-court.html

[Nederland]

18. Agreed

Solutions to the problem of grid overload need to be implemented as soon as possible.